Glow Plug code P0380
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Glow Plug code P0380
P0380 code on my F-250
Had some long cranking starts (6-10 seconds) followed by some good smoke clouds the last few weeks when she started cold with outside temps from 15-25 degrees F. Usually starts just fine at those temps so I went ahead and installed the Stancor GPR. Figured she has 150K on it and I've owned it since she had 24K and the GPR and glow plugs have not been changed since I have owned it.
A little tight with the ITP regulated return but she fit.
Still have the long cranking followed but a few rough stumbles then she smooth out and runs fine - but at least the smoke clouds are gone.
I have the code: P0380 Glow Plug Circuit Error Circuit A
Anyone know which side is circuit A and which is Circuit B?
Glow Plug problem or could this be a UVCH short?
Had some long cranking starts (6-10 seconds) followed by some good smoke clouds the last few weeks when she started cold with outside temps from 15-25 degrees F. Usually starts just fine at those temps so I went ahead and installed the Stancor GPR. Figured she has 150K on it and I've owned it since she had 24K and the GPR and glow plugs have not been changed since I have owned it.
A little tight with the ITP regulated return but she fit.
Still have the long cranking followed but a few rough stumbles then she smooth out and runs fine - but at least the smoke clouds are gone.
I have the code: P0380 Glow Plug Circuit Error Circuit A
Anyone know which side is circuit A and which is Circuit B?
Glow Plug problem or could this be a UVCH short?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,298
Likes: 25
From: Damon (South East Texas)
DTC P0380
DTC P0380 is set when the PCM detects a malfunction in the glow plug relay control circuit.
Possible causes:
shorted/open power
open/grounded circuit
worn or damaged glow plug relay
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage at glow plug relay Point B, Circuit 16 (RD/LG) for E-Series or 361 (RD) for F-Series, and battery ground.
Is voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes No
GO to KC3 . REPAIR open in ignition power Circuit 16 (RD/LG) for E-Series or 361 (RD) for F-Series. If fuse is blown, CHECK for short to ground. RESTORE vehicle. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST.
DTC P0380 is set when the PCM detects a malfunction in the glow plug relay control circuit.
Possible causes:
shorted/open power
open/grounded circuit
worn or damaged glow plug relay
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage at glow plug relay Point B, Circuit 16 (RD/LG) for E-Series or 361 (RD) for F-Series, and battery ground.
Is voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes No
GO to KC3 . REPAIR open in ignition power Circuit 16 (RD/LG) for E-Series or 361 (RD) for F-Series. If fuse is blown, CHECK for short to ground. RESTORE vehicle. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Thanks Roland.
Installed the new Stancor Relay today and tested voltage at all the points listed in the winter cold start sticky thread and Guzzles website.
http://www.guzzle7pt3.com/s_gpr.php
Batteries charged at 100%
1 New Battery Nov 2011
1 New Battery Jul 2011
12.8 Battery volyage - engine not running
12.8 volts at the "always hot post" on the Stancor GPR,
12.8 V at the small red wire (small terminal) on relay when key on engine off
12.8 V at the orange wire (small terminal) when key on/engine off and PCM turns the GPR off,
.4 volts at the orange wire when PCM turns GPR on (orange wire grounded from PCM), 11.5 volts at the "always hot" post and IIRC 11.3 at the opposite larger post that feeds the glow plugs
Installed the new Stancor Relay today and tested voltage at all the points listed in the winter cold start sticky thread and Guzzles website.
http://www.guzzle7pt3.com/s_gpr.php
Batteries charged at 100%
1 New Battery Nov 2011
1 New Battery Jul 2011
12.8 Battery volyage - engine not running
12.8 volts at the "always hot post" on the Stancor GPR,
12.8 V at the small red wire (small terminal) on relay when key on engine off
12.8 V at the orange wire (small terminal) when key on/engine off and PCM turns the GPR off,
.4 volts at the orange wire when PCM turns GPR on (orange wire grounded from PCM), 11.5 volts at the "always hot" post and IIRC 11.3 at the opposite larger post that feeds the glow plugs
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
I even added the jump wire from the small post (orange wire) to ground to keepthe GPR on. All the voltage checks showed the new GPR to be good and I could hear the click each time the relay would turn on or off, including the times I manipulated it with the jump wire.
I am thinking of pulling the valve covers and replacing the glow plugs and checking the UVC harness along with retorquing.
I don't appear to have any grounding problems or voltage drops before the relay. With AE I can see how many seconds the PCM will keep the WTS light on (6 seconds ) and how many seconds (was about 46 seconds) the GPR was energized.
GPR duty cycle showed 99% - but I'm not sure what it should read for this parameter.
I am thinking of pulling the valve covers and replacing the glow plugs and checking the UVC harness along with retorquing.
I don't appear to have any grounding problems or voltage drops before the relay. With AE I can see how many seconds the PCM will keep the WTS light on (6 seconds ) and how many seconds (was about 46 seconds) the GPR was energized.
GPR duty cycle showed 99% - but I'm not sure what it should read for this parameter.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,298
Likes: 25
From: Damon (South East Texas)
KC3 RELAY COIL RESISTANCE TEST
Key off.
Disconnect the wire going to the glow plug relay, Circuit 1086 (VT/OG) Terminal 86.
Measure resistance through relay coil, between Terminals 85 and 86. (Two small terminals)
Is the resistance between 1 ohm and 8 ohms?
Could it be possible the Stancor's coil resistance is different than that of a stock GPR and this is causing the code? Other than that, it seems to be functioning normally. I wonder if the code popped up after the GPR change or was already present.
Key off.
Disconnect the wire going to the glow plug relay, Circuit 1086 (VT/OG) Terminal 86.
Measure resistance through relay coil, between Terminals 85 and 86. (Two small terminals)
Is the resistance between 1 ohm and 8 ohms?
Could it be possible the Stancor's coil resistance is different than that of a stock GPR and this is causing the code? Other than that, it seems to be functioning normally. I wonder if the code popped up after the GPR change or was already present.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
I think it was already present Roland but it is easy enought to swap and find out. Sitting on the bench the orininal GPR is showing resistance between 10 & 11 ohms.
I will also reconnect the AIH or run the fooler resistor since this soft code is preventing me from running the Glow Plug Test with Auto Enginuity.
I will also reconnect the AIH or run the fooler resistor since this soft code is preventing me from running the Glow Plug Test with Auto Enginuity.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
OK, I checked the new GPR (Stancor) and it sits at about 7 ohms resistance. I plugged it all back in and watched with AE and could not get the P0380 code to come back on, started it 4 times and the code is gone. Must have been there from the old GPR. Still long cranks and some smoke. Runs fine after warming up. Drivers side Glow Plugs all ohmed out at .4 ohms and the passenger side at 1.0 ohms. Weird that they were thsame for each bank but quite a difference between the two banks.
Glow plug time?
Glow plug time?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Well, looks like it is time to order some glow plugs from Clay (Riff Raff). Retested the passenger side bank and had 2 of the GP's ohm out at 14 and one at 11.2.
Hooked up the AIH so Auto Enginuity would complete the Glow Plug Test. Didn't reveal much at all after running the test. Came up as completed successfully. Looks like it was only testing the GPR, voltage drop and shorts. This is good info - should run it past Wood-n-Things to see what he thinks.
Hooked up the AIH so Auto Enginuity would complete the Glow Plug Test. Didn't reveal much at all after running the test. Came up as completed successfully. Looks like it was only testing the GPR, voltage drop and shorts. This is good info - should run it past Wood-n-Things to see what he thinks.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,047
Likes: 10
From: Snohomish, WA
The passenger side issue may be UVCH related. I have seen the harness get soaked with oil in the main connector and that caused really odd ohm readings. I dissected the harness and found lots of oil on the wires where the potting compound is placed. This is to keep the connections separated but can also harbor oil if it degrades and allows oil to penetrate it.
Take a look at these pictures and you will see why it can cause issues. The harness is poorly built IMO and could really be much better if the quality was increased. The ohms on this harness were anywhere from 5-60 ohms or showed open. Once I removed the potting compound they dropped to under an ohm for all wires.
Take a look at these pictures and you will see why it can cause issues. The harness is poorly built IMO and could really be much better if the quality was increased. The ohms on this harness were anywhere from 5-60 ohms or showed open. Once I removed the potting compound they dropped to under an ohm for all wires.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Thanks Ken, I plan on washing off the engine tomorrow since it will get up to 40 degrees. Then start taking off the valve covers to pull out the Glow Plugs and inspect the UVC Harness.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Pulled all the glow plugs and on the bench test most of them were around the 1 ohm range, one over 4 ohms and one over 10 ohms. SO I ordered 8 glow plugs from Riff Raff along with two UVC harnesses. I broke the clip on the drivers side harness and I didn't like how the passenger side ohm'ed out so went with two new harnesses. Gonna try do this along with a fresh oul change and clean the IPR. We'll see if this resolves my problem........
Trying to get her ready for camping season.
Trying to get her ready for camping season.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
alright - finally got the new glow plugs and UVC harnesses installed and everything put back together. New glow plugs all ohm out good and the GPR has the appropriate voltage readings when grounded by the PCM.
Starts up with no smoke and P0380 code is gone, so two of the symptoms are fixed.
But i still have those very long starts. I could turn the starter for 10 seconds before she catches. I try not to do that so I don't burn anything out so I have been turning it over for 3-4 seconds at a time until she starts.
Battery's full charged and all less than a year old. One is 8 months and one is 5 months old.
Maybe the starter or alternator? Any thoughts?
Starts up with no smoke and P0380 code is gone, so two of the symptoms are fixed.
But i still have those very long starts. I could turn the starter for 10 seconds before she catches. I try not to do that so I don't burn anything out so I have been turning it over for 3-4 seconds at a time until she starts.
Battery's full charged and all less than a year old. One is 8 months and one is 5 months old.
Maybe the starter or alternator? Any thoughts?
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,047
Likes: 10
From: Snohomish, WA
My first guess is the starter is weak and not spinning the engine over fast enough to get 500 psi ICP. It could also be batteries that are weak too. Sounds like building the oil pressure is happening, just lower than normal. If it weren't building pressure, it would make me lean towards injector o-rings.