CB vs marine VHF radio
#1
01-31-2012, 09:35 PM
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CB vs marine VHF radio
I am looking at buying some type of radio for communication between my f250 and other vehicals I might travel with on long trips with our fifth wheels. I had my mind set on a Midland 75-822 with a good mounted antenna. After talking with a sales rep at the local radio shop who recommended a marine VHF mounted or VHF handheld radio with roof antenna. I was told the VHF marine radios have better range and less chatter. I was hoping to get some advice on either radios and mounting recommendations or pics of intalled radios. Thanks in advance as always for the great advice.
#2
01-31-2012, 10:05 PM
#3
02-01-2012, 03:05 AM
The question is do you want to talk to random people, or do you want to talk to people you specifically want to talk to?
Sometimes I want both, so I installed both my licensed 800MHz UHF radio as well as a conventional 27MHz CB. However, licenses have to be respected while traveling, and my authority to operate the radio equipment has geographical limits.
Due to its unlicensed nature, CB has become more or less a RF wasteland these days and is unreliable for serious communication, but is legally usable anywhere in Canada and the USA. Expect to deal with people broadcasting music, using too much power, and keying down for tens of minutes at a time, all in violation of regulations. (FCC Part 95, Industry Canada RIC-18)
With the licensed radios, I know I will be talking to the intended party(ies), and while others may share the frequency (simplex, not repeater), the radios have digital coded squelch enabled by default to block out other transmissions.
The frequency band characteristics of 27MHz CB make it a good performer in wide, open areas but real performance is severely degraded when obstacles are in the way, due in part to its longer wavelength, and in part due to the use of amplitude modulation, and then the widespread misuse of the radio service. A 400MHz or 800MHz FM UHF radio will have a shorter wavelength and offer good performance with obstacles, however the frequency band uses space wave propagation which requires line-of-sight and will be affected by the horizon line no matter how much power you use. The use of frequency modulation means that a lot of environmental electrical noise will not be demodulated by the receiver (since it is looking for phase angle instead of signal envelope) up until the drop-off point where the signal-to-noise ratio is insufficient for the receiver to distinguish one from the other.
While technically possible, the use of a radio on frequencies allocated to marine use inland - not on a ship, without licensing - is illegal. When using marine frequencies in a non-marine area, you will just have to license it as any VHF band commercial radio. You may not necessarily be granted such frequencies if there is any marine activity anywhere close to the area. Please respect the other users of the radio spectrum in using allocated services for their intended purpose, otherwise we have a mess that is like the citizens' band today.
This is the FCC page on use of Marine radio on land:
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
This obviously is applicable when the vehicle is not a ship at all.
This is the Industry Canada page on use of Marine radio on land:
Licensing Exemptions - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
Out of your two choices, CB is the only way to go. You may also consider GMRS or MURS (USA only until 2014) services.
Most trucking agencies have moved to VHF licensed radios and in many areas, multiple agencies will share the same frequencies. The VHF radios have 30-watt transmit power output and perform better than the old CB service. You may inquire with your local FCC/IC office about any 'package' frequencies that may be used in your area, and often the application for authorization for use of these frequencies will be simple as they process the 'package' often. A commercial radio dealer - not the CB shack at the nearest truck stop - may also be better prepared to answer questions on available frequencies and offer equipment options.
However, your communication depends on what the other party is using. Are you going to be outfitting everyone's vehicles with radios, or outfitting yours with an installed mobile unit and handing out handie-talkie portable units to others (as I do)? How much money, time, and effort are you willing to spend on getting radiotelephony between vehicles? How important is the proper functioning of this system to your application?
If simplicity, availability, and low cost is the goal here, then again, CB is the way to go.
Sometimes I want both, so I installed both my licensed 800MHz UHF radio as well as a conventional 27MHz CB. However, licenses have to be respected while traveling, and my authority to operate the radio equipment has geographical limits.
Due to its unlicensed nature, CB has become more or less a RF wasteland these days and is unreliable for serious communication, but is legally usable anywhere in Canada and the USA. Expect to deal with people broadcasting music, using too much power, and keying down for tens of minutes at a time, all in violation of regulations. (FCC Part 95, Industry Canada RIC-18)
With the licensed radios, I know I will be talking to the intended party(ies), and while others may share the frequency (simplex, not repeater), the radios have digital coded squelch enabled by default to block out other transmissions.
The frequency band characteristics of 27MHz CB make it a good performer in wide, open areas but real performance is severely degraded when obstacles are in the way, due in part to its longer wavelength, and in part due to the use of amplitude modulation, and then the widespread misuse of the radio service. A 400MHz or 800MHz FM UHF radio will have a shorter wavelength and offer good performance with obstacles, however the frequency band uses space wave propagation which requires line-of-sight and will be affected by the horizon line no matter how much power you use. The use of frequency modulation means that a lot of environmental electrical noise will not be demodulated by the receiver (since it is looking for phase angle instead of signal envelope) up until the drop-off point where the signal-to-noise ratio is insufficient for the receiver to distinguish one from the other.
While technically possible, the use of a radio on frequencies allocated to marine use inland - not on a ship, without licensing - is illegal. When using marine frequencies in a non-marine area, you will just have to license it as any VHF band commercial radio. You may not necessarily be granted such frequencies if there is any marine activity anywhere close to the area. Please respect the other users of the radio spectrum in using allocated services for their intended purpose, otherwise we have a mess that is like the citizens' band today.
This is the FCC page on use of Marine radio on land:
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
Prohibited Communications
YOU MUST NOT TRANSMIT --
[...]
When your ship is on land (for example, while the ship is on a trailer).
YOU MUST NOT TRANSMIT --
[...]
When your ship is on land (for example, while the ship is on a trailer).
This is the Industry Canada page on use of Marine radio on land:
Licensing Exemptions - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
Can I use maritime radio equipment on land or in my vehicle for personal use?
No, maritime radio equipment should not be operated on land or in vehicles for personal use.
No, maritime radio equipment should not be operated on land or in vehicles for personal use.
Most trucking agencies have moved to VHF licensed radios and in many areas, multiple agencies will share the same frequencies. The VHF radios have 30-watt transmit power output and perform better than the old CB service. You may inquire with your local FCC/IC office about any 'package' frequencies that may be used in your area, and often the application for authorization for use of these frequencies will be simple as they process the 'package' often. A commercial radio dealer - not the CB shack at the nearest truck stop - may also be better prepared to answer questions on available frequencies and offer equipment options.
However, your communication depends on what the other party is using. Are you going to be outfitting everyone's vehicles with radios, or outfitting yours with an installed mobile unit and handing out handie-talkie portable units to others (as I do)? How much money, time, and effort are you willing to spend on getting radiotelephony between vehicles? How important is the proper functioning of this system to your application?
If simplicity, availability, and low cost is the goal here, then again, CB is the way to go.
#4
02-01-2012, 06:05 AM
I won't comment much on Trents post, lots of good info in there - reread it.
My comments - you probably didn't expect to get this much info posting a "simple" question on 2 way radios.
If you are after simple car-to-car, truck-to-truck communication going down the road - CB. Outside of that (short range with CB - within a mile or two) - Ham radio is your friend. There are repeaters all over the US. If you are close to one you can talk all over a state with a hand held radio. It does take a license though, not real difficult - just have to know some radio basics and regulations to pass a test. It can take a little bit for the license to be issued after your test, so this may not work well if you are in a time crunch. I'd recommend it regardless - its a great hobby. PM me if you have further questions.
My comments - you probably didn't expect to get this much info posting a "simple" question on 2 way radios.
If you are after simple car-to-car, truck-to-truck communication going down the road - CB. Outside of that (short range with CB - within a mile or two) - Ham radio is your friend. There are repeaters all over the US. If you are close to one you can talk all over a state with a hand held radio. It does take a license though, not real difficult - just have to know some radio basics and regulations to pass a test. It can take a little bit for the license to be issued after your test, so this may not work well if you are in a time crunch. I'd recommend it regardless - its a great hobby. PM me if you have further questions.
#5
02-01-2012, 07:14 AM
Cargo Master
I am looking at buying some type of radio for communication between my f250 and other vehicals I might travel with on long trips with our fifth wheels. I had my mind set on a Midland 75-822 with a good mounted antenna. After talking with a sales rep at the local radio shop who recommended a marine VHF mounted or VHF handheld radio with roof antenna. I was told the VHF marine radios have better range and less chatter. I was hoping to get some advice on either radios and mounting recommendations or pics of intalled radios. Thanks in advance as always for the great advice.
Almost everyone in this day in age has a cellphone.
#6
02-01-2012, 07:19 AM
#7
02-01-2012, 12:00 PM
Here is what I did with my cb and antenna. I like having a cb for finding out road conditions, where accidents have occurred, etc., but I drive my truck for a living. Good luck!
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10601780
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10601780
Trending Topics
#8
02-01-2012, 12:30 PM
The question is do you want to talk to random people, or do you want to talk to people you specifically want to talk to?
Sometimes I want both, so I installed both my licensed 800MHz UHF radio as well as a conventional 27MHz CB. However, licenses have to be respected while traveling, and my authority to operate the radio equipment has geographical limits.
Due to its unlicensed nature, CB has become more or less a RF wasteland these days and is unreliable for serious communication, but is legally usable anywhere in Canada and the USA. Expect to deal with people broadcasting music, using too much power, and keying down for tens of minutes at a time, all in violation of regulations. (FCC Part 95, Industry Canada RIC-18)
With the licensed radios, I know I will be talking to the intended party(ies), and while others may share the frequency (simplex, not repeater), the radios have digital coded squelch enabled by default to block out other transmissions.
The frequency band characteristics of 27MHz CB make it a good performer in wide, open areas but real performance is severely degraded when obstacles are in the way, due in part to its longer wavelength, and in part due to the use of amplitude modulation, and then the widespread misuse of the radio service. A 400MHz or 800MHz FM UHF radio will have a shorter wavelength and offer good performance with obstacles, however the frequency band uses space wave propagation which requires line-of-sight and will be affected by the horizon line no matter how much power you use. The use of frequency modulation means that a lot of environmental electrical noise will not be demodulated by the receiver (since it is looking for phase angle instead of signal envelope) up until the drop-off point where the signal-to-noise ratio is insufficient for the receiver to distinguish one from the other.
While technically possible, the use of a radio on frequencies allocated to marine use inland - not on a ship, without licensing - is illegal. When using marine frequencies in a non-marine area, you will just have to license it as any VHF band commercial radio. You may not necessarily be granted such frequencies if there is any marine activity anywhere close to the area. Please respect the other users of the radio spectrum in using allocated services for their intended purpose, otherwise we have a mess that is like the citizens' band today.
This is the FCC page on use of Marine radio on land:
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
This obviously is applicable when the vehicle is not a ship at all.
This is the Industry Canada page on use of Marine radio on land:
Licensing Exemptions - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
Out of your two choices, CB is the only way to go. You may also consider GMRS or MURS (USA only until 2014) services.
Most trucking agencies have moved to VHF licensed radios and in many areas, multiple agencies will share the same frequencies. The VHF radios have 30-watt transmit power output and perform better than the old CB service. You may inquire with your local FCC/IC office about any 'package' frequencies that may be used in your area, and often the application for authorization for use of these frequencies will be simple as they process the 'package' often. A commercial radio dealer - not the CB shack at the nearest truck stop - may also be better prepared to answer questions on available frequencies and offer equipment options.
However, your communication depends on what the other party is using. Are you going to be outfitting everyone's vehicles with radios, or outfitting yours with an installed mobile unit and handing out handie-talkie portable units to others (as I do)? How much money, time, and effort are you willing to spend on getting radiotelephony between vehicles? How important is the proper functioning of this system to your application?
If simplicity, availability, and low cost is the goal here, then again, CB is the way to go.
Sometimes I want both, so I installed both my licensed 800MHz UHF radio as well as a conventional 27MHz CB. However, licenses have to be respected while traveling, and my authority to operate the radio equipment has geographical limits.
Due to its unlicensed nature, CB has become more or less a RF wasteland these days and is unreliable for serious communication, but is legally usable anywhere in Canada and the USA. Expect to deal with people broadcasting music, using too much power, and keying down for tens of minutes at a time, all in violation of regulations. (FCC Part 95, Industry Canada RIC-18)
With the licensed radios, I know I will be talking to the intended party(ies), and while others may share the frequency (simplex, not repeater), the radios have digital coded squelch enabled by default to block out other transmissions.
The frequency band characteristics of 27MHz CB make it a good performer in wide, open areas but real performance is severely degraded when obstacles are in the way, due in part to its longer wavelength, and in part due to the use of amplitude modulation, and then the widespread misuse of the radio service. A 400MHz or 800MHz FM UHF radio will have a shorter wavelength and offer good performance with obstacles, however the frequency band uses space wave propagation which requires line-of-sight and will be affected by the horizon line no matter how much power you use. The use of frequency modulation means that a lot of environmental electrical noise will not be demodulated by the receiver (since it is looking for phase angle instead of signal envelope) up until the drop-off point where the signal-to-noise ratio is insufficient for the receiver to distinguish one from the other.
While technically possible, the use of a radio on frequencies allocated to marine use inland - not on a ship, without licensing - is illegal. When using marine frequencies in a non-marine area, you will just have to license it as any VHF band commercial radio. You may not necessarily be granted such frequencies if there is any marine activity anywhere close to the area. Please respect the other users of the radio spectrum in using allocated services for their intended purpose, otherwise we have a mess that is like the citizens' band today.
This is the FCC page on use of Marine radio on land:
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
This obviously is applicable when the vehicle is not a ship at all.
This is the Industry Canada page on use of Marine radio on land:
Licensing Exemptions - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications
Out of your two choices, CB is the only way to go. You may also consider GMRS or MURS (USA only until 2014) services.
Most trucking agencies have moved to VHF licensed radios and in many areas, multiple agencies will share the same frequencies. The VHF radios have 30-watt transmit power output and perform better than the old CB service. You may inquire with your local FCC/IC office about any 'package' frequencies that may be used in your area, and often the application for authorization for use of these frequencies will be simple as they process the 'package' often. A commercial radio dealer - not the CB shack at the nearest truck stop - may also be better prepared to answer questions on available frequencies and offer equipment options.
However, your communication depends on what the other party is using. Are you going to be outfitting everyone's vehicles with radios, or outfitting yours with an installed mobile unit and handing out handie-talkie portable units to others (as I do)? How much money, time, and effort are you willing to spend on getting radiotelephony between vehicles? How important is the proper functioning of this system to your application?
If simplicity, availability, and low cost is the goal here, then again, CB is the way to go.
Our guys only use CB raido any more when insdie quarries to communicate with the loader and scale operator. Other than that, its a bunch of trash and overpowered echo filled idiots on the air. VHF radios are the way we communicate truck to truck. Question is, are you wanting to communicate with everybody else on the road? Or are you talking about a convoy that you just want to talk to? If its everybody then CB is your best bet
#9
02-01-2012, 11:28 PM
More Turbo
#10
02-02-2012, 12:58 AM
That's my own scanned copy but many versions are floating around on the net.
In contrast, those Motorola radios are all surface mount components, and you don't get to know how it works because that's a trade secret. The general attitude from Moto is If you can't configure it on RSS, you can't do it.
#11
02-10-2013, 06:14 PM
As had been mentioned. VHF-FM (Marine) use is strictly for boaters. However, I plan to use it in each vehicle. Note that near bodies of water, law enforcement MAY monitor it. FURTHER from water, it is a LESS common form of communication. AND, its reach is greater than citizens band. My intent (while improper) is to use it in abbreviated sessions, thereby reducing possibility of detection.
PS - CB is good to learn road/traffic conditions along your route. VERY much worth the effort.
PS - CB is good to learn road/traffic conditions along your route. VERY much worth the effort.
#12
02-11-2013, 01:26 AM
Do be aware that law enforcement rarely monitors radio frequencies for improper usage, unless it happens to interfere with public safety.
Rather, the Amateur (Ham) radio community has many members who make a hobby out of tracking and reporting improper radio usage. They treat it like a fun game, but at the same time they take illegal radio usage very seriously and can be quite tenacious in tracking down offenders. They hate unlicensed operators; as they have a lot of time and money invested in staying legal (gear, licensing, studying/taking tests, etc.)
These are the guys you would have to worry about.....and quite frankly, many of them have absolutely nothing better to do than track and report offenders. Considering the fine for a first time offense is $7,500 to $10,000 I would really think long and hard about breaking federal communications laws.
Rather, the Amateur (Ham) radio community has many members who make a hobby out of tracking and reporting improper radio usage. They treat it like a fun game, but at the same time they take illegal radio usage very seriously and can be quite tenacious in tracking down offenders. They hate unlicensed operators; as they have a lot of time and money invested in staying legal (gear, licensing, studying/taking tests, etc.)
These are the guys you would have to worry about.....and quite frankly, many of them have absolutely nothing better to do than track and report offenders. Considering the fine for a first time offense is $7,500 to $10,000 I would really think long and hard about breaking federal communications laws.
#13
02-11-2013, 08:03 AM
Easier it is to get the more abuse there will be.
Get the CB or the Family radios. FRS works pretty good and all of you in your group can have your "own" channel.
Living near the shore means half the houses have white antennas on the roof, marine VHF's.
Working for a water towing company many of us had marine radios in the house, in the trucks and plenty of portables.
Marine radios around here sometimes have as much garbage on them as CB's use to have. And one of "best" things the FCC did was allow scrambled transmissions on the marine bands.
All that really did is cause a proliferation of people not using scrambled radios to just key up, and some do that with power.
The FCC never goes after anybody on the marine bands unless we are talking hoax mayday calls. And it is the USCG that tracks and then files charges.
With Cell phones being better then ever and usage so cheap now, the abuse of marine radios has become much better.
But there is nothing like trying to monitor your working channel and having a bunch of foreign language users start chatting it for an hour or two.
Get the CB or the Family radios. FRS works pretty good and all of you in your group can have your "own" channel.
Living near the shore means half the houses have white antennas on the roof, marine VHF's.
Working for a water towing company many of us had marine radios in the house, in the trucks and plenty of portables.
Marine radios around here sometimes have as much garbage on them as CB's use to have. And one of "best" things the FCC did was allow scrambled transmissions on the marine bands.
All that really did is cause a proliferation of people not using scrambled radios to just key up, and some do that with power.
The FCC never goes after anybody on the marine bands unless we are talking hoax mayday calls. And it is the USCG that tracks and then files charges.
With Cell phones being better then ever and usage so cheap now, the abuse of marine radios has become much better.
But there is nothing like trying to monitor your working channel and having a bunch of foreign language users start chatting it for an hour or two.
#14
02-11-2013, 08:08 AM
As had been mentioned. VHF-FM (Marine) use is strictly for boaters. However, I plan to use it in each vehicle. Note that near bodies of water, law enforcement MAY monitor it. FURTHER from water, it is a LESS common form of communication. AND, its reach is greater than citizens band. My intent (while improper) is to use it in abbreviated sessions, thereby reducing possibility of detection.
PS - CB is good to learn road/traffic conditions along your route. VERY much worth the effort.
PS - CB is good to learn road/traffic conditions along your route. VERY much worth the effort.
Yes, the marine channel plan is used near bodies of water, but away from those bodies of water those frequencies are re-allocated to commerical land mobile applications and there are still users. Don't be misled that because you're away from areas of marine radio usage that there is NO use of VHF channels. Your desired transmit channel may happen to be the receive frequency of a local repeater and you have the potential to disrupt communications in a wide area.
#15
02-11-2013, 07:32 PM
