C6 to AOD swap MPG savings?
#16
01-30-2012, 01:19 PM
Posting Legend
I occasionally used OD on the motorways (freeways), where the truck could be driven at reasonable rpm (around 75mph in OD due to 3.54 axle & 30" tires), but there was so much wind resistance that there was no fuel saving - in fact, the opposite.
In a car it would be a different situation.
My intention was to swap to a close-ratio T19, but the AOD died too quickly so a C6 had to go in temporarily, followed by the NP435 swap later - T19 next week, Gary! Seriously!
In the process of all this though, I learned a couple of things ('seat-of-the-pants' in my application)
- the power consumption difference between a C6 & an AOD is pretty much non-existent
- the C6 is actually slightly lighter than the AOD......10-15lb IIRC
- NOT using OD, the C6 & AOD gave me the same mpg, despite the AOD lockup in 3rd (& 4th)
-swapping from C6 to 4spd manual has so far gained 1mpg, running light (not towing or loaded) - but I think the C6 mileage would fall behind, loaded.
-while the mpg difference between C6/Np435 is only slight, the power difference is noticeable, especially on initial acceleration & when hitting a hill.
Hope this might help someone
In a car it would be a different situation.
My intention was to swap to a close-ratio T19, but the AOD died too quickly so a C6 had to go in temporarily, followed by the NP435 swap later - T19 next week, Gary! Seriously!
In the process of all this though, I learned a couple of things ('seat-of-the-pants' in my application)
- the power consumption difference between a C6 & an AOD is pretty much non-existent
- the C6 is actually slightly lighter than the AOD......10-15lb IIRC
- NOT using OD, the C6 & AOD gave me the same mpg, despite the AOD lockup in 3rd (& 4th)
-swapping from C6 to 4spd manual has so far gained 1mpg, running light (not towing or loaded) - but I think the C6 mileage would fall behind, loaded.
-while the mpg difference between C6/Np435 is only slight, the power difference is noticeable, especially on initial acceleration & when hitting a hill.
Hope this might help someone
On top of that, your engineering background lets you analyze the results as well as the reasons why. So, somehow we need to capture your experience, to-date as well as that coming, so it can easily be found. Perhaps you could create some document on what you've done, how you've done it, and the results? Maybe you and Chris could figure out what it should look like and where it could go to be found.
#17
01-30-2012, 02:11 PM
Right now with the truck below my best tank EVER was 14.2MPG
Ford plainly states NOT to tow in overdrive.
...
There is a reason why Ford never put the AOD behind anything bigger than a 302 engine in the F-Series trucks.
...
There is a reason why Ford never put the AOD behind anything bigger than a 302 engine in the F-Series trucks.
-while the mpg difference between C6/Np435 is only slight, the power difference is noticeable, especially on initial acceleration & when hitting a hill.
I was checking out Baumann's site and they've come out with a newer, less expensive controller for the E4OD... Now I'm thinking again...
I guess I should mention that I'm a tech geek and I have a Megasquirt EFI computer that I could use to convert to EFI. I also have all the other associated parts too like GT40 manifold, fuel rail, etc... So the idea of an electronic trans where I could get in there and program it is very appealing to me...
I really like the idea of an EFI/E4OD driveline but I don't know how I square it with my desire for "Hammer" simplicity...
#18
01-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Posting Legend
I have a rather lengthy background in IT, and the idea of any program being as simple as a hammer, much less as reliable as a hammer, is foreign to me. And, I don't mean "foreign" as in the UK or NZ where they sorta speak the same language, I mean as foreign as the moon. But, YMMV.
#19
01-30-2012, 02:38 PM
#20
01-30-2012, 02:59 PM
Posting Legend
I hear you. I'm right there myself. Have considered megasquirt. Read up on it a few months ago and I'm sure I could do it. However, then I stepped back and realized I had so many other issues with the truck that it didn't make sense to spend the time and money on getting the last bit of power and economy when everything else would go begging. So, for now I'm content to bring the other things up to speed. Maybe later?
#21
01-30-2012, 03:16 PM
I built mine for a race car project that I pulled the plug on. I realized that spending the money I was going to spend for something that I would take to the track a few times a year just wasn't worth it. So I bailed before I got too deep but I do have a working Megasquirt now and I'm itching for something to put it in.
Yeah... Probably the best advice...
Maybe later?
#22
01-31-2012, 03:25 AM
Cargo Master
Ken - You are our poster child or tester king. I seriously doubt anyone else has tried so many transmissions in these truck, and you still have a couple to go - T19 and ZF5.
On top of that, your engineering background lets you analyze the results as well as the reasons why. So, somehow we need to capture your experience, to-date as well as that coming, so it can easily be found. Perhaps you could create some document on what you've done, how you've done it, and the results? Maybe you and Chris could figure out what it should look like and where it could go to be found.
On top of that, your engineering background lets you analyze the results as well as the reasons why. So, somehow we need to capture your experience, to-date as well as that coming, so it can easily be found. Perhaps you could create some document on what you've done, how you've done it, and the results? Maybe you and Chris could figure out what it should look like and where it could go to be found.
I'll make the final swap next week (c/r T19 - unlikely to ever look at a ZF in this truck) & then put something together when I have new mpg figures.
#24
01-31-2012, 08:15 AM
Posting Legend
Ken - While it is a bit late for the AOD and C6, is there some test that would ascertain the "apparent power"? One thought would be acceleration runs, but that might be more a test of gearing or speed in shifting. And I thought of acceleration in the 1:1 gear, but on the autos you can't floor it w/o shifting. So, I haven't come up with a way to do that.
#25
01-31-2012, 11:45 PM
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C6 is the way to go.
I'm putting together a cheap weekend warrior type truck currently and went with a C6 to keep things simple. I went from an NP435 to a TOD manual overdrive...then recently to a C6. My left knee is screwed up from playing sports in HS and the TOD was on it's way out.
I thought about an AOD, but with the hills here in AZ, it would be hunting between 3rd and OD too much. Add the crazy summer heat and possibly a trailer and it's bad news for the AOD. I put an aftermarket deeper pan and a big aux cooler on the C6 and I'm sure it will do fine.
I'm putting together a cheap weekend warrior type truck currently and went with a C6 to keep things simple. I went from an NP435 to a TOD manual overdrive...then recently to a C6. My left knee is screwed up from playing sports in HS and the TOD was on it's way out.
I thought about an AOD, but with the hills here in AZ, it would be hunting between 3rd and OD too much. Add the crazy summer heat and possibly a trailer and it's bad news for the AOD. I put an aftermarket deeper pan and a big aux cooler on the C6 and I'm sure it will do fine.
#26
02-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by custom1106
C6 is the way to go.
I thought about an AOD, but with the hills here in AZ, it would be hunting between 3rd and OD too much. Add the crazy summer heat and possibly a trailer and it's bad news for the AOD. I put an aftermarket deeper pan and a big aux cooler on the C6 and I'm sure it will do fine.
I thought about an AOD, but with the hills here in AZ, it would be hunting between 3rd and OD too much. Add the crazy summer heat and possibly a trailer and it's bad news for the AOD. I put an aftermarket deeper pan and a big aux cooler on the C6 and I'm sure it will do fine.
That is what I mean when I said earlier that the AOD sometimes gets a bad rap because it often isn't used correctly and its weakness is often exaggerated.
For the hills in AZ, all you have to do is select the "D" (OVERDRIVE LOCKOUT) gear and you would get just as good performance from the AOD as you would the C6. PLUS you will have the added "OD" (OVERDRIVE) gear for later use on the highway that will give much better fuel economy than the C6. An AOD can handle a normal sized trailer just fine as long as you use the "D" gear as well. Summer heat should not hurt a correctly used AOD more than it would a C6 all things being equal. And a deeper pan and and a big auxiliary cooler will help the AOD just as much as it will the C6.
See this thread:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...th-an-aod.html
#27
03-02-2019, 07:01 PM
#28
03-11-2020, 05:32 PM
#29
03-12-2020, 08:14 AM
Please re-phrase your questions. I would love to help you, but have no idea what you are asking.
#30
03-12-2020, 10:09 AM