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Does anyone see huge improvements in premium vs reg. unleaded?

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Does anyone see huge improvements in premium vs reg. unleaded?

 
  #16  
Old 01-28-2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by F-250 WARHORSE View Post
Mine has trouble starting on a cold morning with regular, it is a 10+:1 460, not a "stock dent" at 6000' elevation. With regular it starts and dies, starts and misses, with premium, it fires right off, no dying and no missing, hit the key and it its good to go. When warm, it sometimes has to crank a while to take off, from that cheap gas with e10 blend boiling and fogging out the carb. Premium doesn't do this either. And finally, my 84 honda xl600r kick start does not like anything less than 91. Your leg will wear right down at 5:00 am starting that thing on 85 octane. It won't run on it, 91 never had an issue. That motor specs to 8.5:1 comp. and it is original. I don't buy that 85 and 91 octane are the same just more resistance to pinging. I beg to differ, if I fill my bike up at those pumps that have one hose for all 3 fuel grades, I will have a well conditioned leg by the time I get new fuel, I go to one of the 3 fuel stations left in our town with seperate hoses for the fuel grades. I think when you buy only 2 gallons you probably get 1/4-1/2 gallon of the cheap stuff to purge the line, almost worth asking the guy next to you if you can pump a gallon into his car free of charge to save my right leg.

Next study I have conducted is on Husquvarna chain saws. The cheap gas leaves deposits on the plug, plugs the spark arrestor, and again, you better eat your wheaties to start those things on a cold morning in the mountains. Run premium, or even better, av gas, problems solved.
If you'd like to ignore a simple fact, have at it. You're just making yourself look ignorant and stupid.

There are several ways to explain your experience. It could be related to the spark and at what point the spark heats up the a/f mixture enough to ignite it. When starting on regular gas, the a/f mixture ignites too quickly and has mostly burned off once the piston reaches TDC. When running premium, the point of ignition is delayed by a fraction of a second and the a/f mixture burns past TDC and kicks the engine over.
 
  #17  
Old 01-28-2012, 07:49 PM
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Well, I agree I might look stupid, but why doesn't a motorcycle or chainsaw start on regular unleaded? How do you explain that? Simple fact. I hope someone can explain that, because I have NEVER seen a motorcycle run even as close to as good on low octane fuel. I have owned plenty and the few time i ran 85 rather than 91, there was always an issue. I even had issues with my honda from filling up in the one hose stations and my brother told me to only run gas from a seperate premium hose and I did, problem fixed. I hate to argue with facts, but after all it is my arm and leg.
 
  #18  
Old 01-28-2012, 07:58 PM
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Most motorcycles run higher compression so they need higher octane fuel.
 
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:03 PM
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"Big oil" likes your money, if it makes you feel good buying higher octane then by all means proceed, i won't tell anyone.
 
  #20  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:11 PM
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Well, my current motorcycle is specd to 8.5:1 compression. I stated this before. I am not arguing I just want to know why my stuff don't run on 85? Am I missing something or what? How would a 8.5:1 engine not be able to run on 85? It should be fine. I know the scientists can prove me wrong but my leg begs to differ. I sure get some funny looks out side of the supermarket kicking the tar out of my starter and cussing like a sailor trying to go home and then I start mumbling unnder my breath that i'm never buying gas from that A$$ hole on the corner again!!
 
  #21  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by F-250 WARHORSE View Post
Well, my current motorcycle is specd to 8.5:1 compression. I stated this before. I am not arguing I just want to know why my stuff don't run on 85? Am I missing something or what? How would a 8.5:1 engine not be able to run on 85? It should be fine. I know the scientists can prove me wrong but my leg begs to differ. I sure get some funny looks out side of the supermarket kicking the tar out of my starter and cussing like a sailor trying to go home and then I start mumbling unnder my breath that i'm never buying gas from that A$$ hole on the corner again!!
Compression ratio and actual compression pressure are two different things. Intake design, air filter, valve size, among other things, can drastically change compression pressure.

Consider this: How does porting an engine increase performance? It raises the compression pressure by a small amount by allowing the a/f mixture to travel to the combustion chamber more efficiently. More a/f in the combustion chamber=higher compression=better performance. The compression ratio stays the same, the compression pressure increases.
 
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:20 PM
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Well, that helps my ideas some. Now, would you guys say a 10:1 460 run good on 85 or should I run high octane? I have the timing retarded as far as I can go with it still idling. Any less and it almost doesn't idle. I can advance and it runs way nicer but pings.
 
  #23  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:22 PM
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If your getting pinging, run higher octane fuel.
 
  #24  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:44 PM
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I knew that much. I need to tune the vacuum and mechanical advance to limit it and that should allow more static timing, I haven't done it yet.
 
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:03 PM
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I'm far from being an expert, but an iron headed 10:1 460 is well into the "premium" territory. This supports the reason you've got your timing lead on the rear bumper.

In your case, i would if you ran premium gas, snuck up on your detonation threshold under cruise/acceleration, and ran your vacuum advance on the ported side of your carb (assuming you have that ability) you'd be leaps and bounds ahead of where you are now in terms of power and fuel efficiency (if one is even allowed to use that term for a 460).

getting a vacuum advance module that is tuneable is gravy. but running ported vacuum should really help you out.
 
  #26  
Old 01-28-2012, 10:18 PM
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Iron headed 10 to 1 is definitely premium territory unless you want to burn pistons. Depending on rest of build and driving habits, 93 octane can be questionable.
 
  #27  
Old 01-29-2012, 12:09 AM
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FWIW my Kawasaki ZX7R nets 49-51 mpg with Conoco 87 Octane.

With Conoco 91 octane I get around 48.

Shell 87 octane is 47-49 mpg.

Shell is usually 3-10 cents more than Conoco as well.

I ride my motorcycle as much as possible Spring, Summer and Fall and my commute back and forth to work is quite the routine, so keeping track of this all is a cinch.

Josh
 
  #28  
Old 01-29-2012, 06:07 AM
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I built mine, 429, 9:3/1, rv cam, to run on both. At 9:3 I can still run regular 87(mostly) but I can take advantage of the slightly higher compression to get a performance gain using premium; now 91. Don't know about mileage but I do feel a difference when I fill up with 91.

2x on 10+:1 ='s premium only

Being that you are @ 6,000 feet elevation that should make a difference too. I am @ sea level but think there must be some performance issues even when properly jetted for your altitude.

.
 
  #29  
Old 01-29-2012, 01:05 PM
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I run on the ported side of the vacuum for the advance, but as soon as the vacuum kicks in it over advances. I need to limit it to about half. I never mentioned mileage on motorcycle, it is about the same that I have checked, but when I run less than premium, it don't start, period. I jetted it, ran different heat plugs, and regularly clean the muffler, not that it gets dirty, but it won't if I keep it clean. It has a new stator and just is hard starting on less than premium. If electric start, probably no issue, but kick start = hard starting. My 460 is the same. We ran 85 in my brothers 390 W/ 360 pistons and iron heads and never had any issues. He thought it was 10-11:1 CR and it never pinged under normal conditions. Mine just needs less advance and that would help tons. As for my motorcycle, It will continue to run premium. Mileage is same. Starting is easy. As for the scientist's study, it probably is right. I probably have some strange issue that defies modern science, Like water expanding when it freezes. However, my rule of thumb is this: if you have never had it happen that doesn't make it impossible, me watching happen proves it is possible. Thanks so far and I just thought someone would say "yes" or "no" not a huge ascertation on theories proving scientifically that my kick start bike just needs some repairs.
 
 
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