theoretical 6r80 trans swap
#16
12-28-2011, 05:43 PM
#17
12-28-2011, 06:49 PM
#18
12-28-2011, 08:38 PM
#19
10-27-2015, 12:35 AM
I was reading a profile thread that involved some really knowledegable input by you regarding a 6r80 transmission swap out into an older generation truck.
I would like to know considering the complicated nature of the newer engine and transmission memory/ecm and such, that certainly you cant basically take an engine and transmission from say a 2011 f150 and drop them into a 95.
However, given the simpler requirements from that older generation, COULD YOU NOT TAKE A POWER TRAIN COMBO FROM A 95 AND DROP THEM INTO A 2011?
I am a 95 f150 die hard. I just cant kill this thing e40d and all and was looking at newer models the past few years and they scare the hell out of me with so many non basic back yard/home mechanic intangibles.
But I have access to repoed vehicles and was looking at a 2011 with very high miles and was thinking....
could I not find a rebuild and/or overhauled 95 era powertrain and swap.
As a life long ford guy with 2 70 mustang pace cars in driveway....
I have found that ford usually has some way of doing alot of things mechanically speaking. Its just the newer ecm technical requirements that have to be considered post 2000.
THANKS, I am certain I am about to learn alot.
I would like to know considering the complicated nature of the newer engine and transmission memory/ecm and such, that certainly you cant basically take an engine and transmission from say a 2011 f150 and drop them into a 95.
However, given the simpler requirements from that older generation, COULD YOU NOT TAKE A POWER TRAIN COMBO FROM A 95 AND DROP THEM INTO A 2011?
I am a 95 f150 die hard. I just cant kill this thing e40d and all and was looking at newer models the past few years and they scare the hell out of me with so many non basic back yard/home mechanic intangibles.
But I have access to repoed vehicles and was looking at a 2011 with very high miles and was thinking....
could I not find a rebuild and/or overhauled 95 era powertrain and swap.
As a life long ford guy with 2 70 mustang pace cars in driveway....
I have found that ford usually has some way of doing alot of things mechanically speaking. Its just the newer ecm technical requirements that have to be considered post 2000.
THANKS, I am certain I am about to learn alot.
#20
10-27-2015, 05:34 AM
Yes, it can be done. It may take some fabrication and some custom software, but it could be done. It is going to be easier than putting a newer drive train in an older truck, but not by a lot. You'd need to swap all the instrumentation because the older Powertrain isn't going to be able to drive the speedometer or any of the other gauges. And that's just off the top of my head. There is probably more.
#21
10-27-2015, 08:00 PM
I guess all this pc craziness has forced basic mechanical engineering into oblivion. Ford once upon a time was renown for its MULTIPLE APPLICATION ENGINEERING PLATFORM. That wonderful notion gave us 5 entire vehicles on a single chasis bases.....
15 years of mustangs all intercghangeable.....
and a base that allowed any engine to transplant into almost any other vehicle from 64 to 92.
Now its all BS. I basically refuse to buy any new Fird product and this is from a guy thats owned MANY fords and also spent a year on a ford motor company assembly line.
50 years from now there will be NONE of this generation vehicles all because of the assinine hair splitting specifics that will make parts inventorying and restoring imposible.
thanks for the info!
15 years of mustangs all intercghangeable.....
and a base that allowed any engine to transplant into almost any other vehicle from 64 to 92.
Now its all BS. I basically refuse to buy any new Fird product and this is from a guy thats owned MANY fords and also spent a year on a ford motor company assembly line.
50 years from now there will be NONE of this generation vehicles all because of the assinine hair splitting specifics that will make parts inventorying and restoring imposible.
thanks for the info!
#22
10-27-2015, 09:18 PM
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#23
10-28-2015, 02:46 PM
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming
Posts: 706
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I would like to say that a once avid poster and lurker of the site I have not been around very much here in a long time. I now work for a ford dealer. We have a extremely knowledgeable service department. We are in a small town in wyoming and these guys have been working here for longer than I have been alive.
All of that out of the way, I had brought this topic up with them. Essentially Mark Kovalsky is dead on point (as we would expect) the problem would most likely lie in the custom software. You would need to be close to a advanced tuning house and you would need to go in quite often to refine the program in the beginning. We are talking ODB I here, not alot of people in my area would even mess with it.
Long story short it should work with enough dicking with it, however it might not be the rock solid platform you are used to. the old 5.0 and the new 5.0 are share only the rough displacement. On a dollars level it wont make sense.
I share your pain, I love my 5.4 I do not love my trans. Next time it needs a new engine it is going to sit there until I get a 460 build up with a zf5 to match and slam that in there. I see where you are coming from and the uniqueness and the fact it is just the way you want it will be priceless.
All of that out of the way, I had brought this topic up with them. Essentially Mark Kovalsky is dead on point (as we would expect) the problem would most likely lie in the custom software. You would need to be close to a advanced tuning house and you would need to go in quite often to refine the program in the beginning. We are talking ODB I here, not alot of people in my area would even mess with it.
Long story short it should work with enough dicking with it, however it might not be the rock solid platform you are used to. the old 5.0 and the new 5.0 are share only the rough displacement. On a dollars level it wont make sense.
I share your pain, I love my 5.4 I do not love my trans. Next time it needs a new engine it is going to sit there until I get a 460 build up with a zf5 to match and slam that in there. I see where you are coming from and the uniqueness and the fact it is just the way you want it will be priceless.
#24
10-28-2015, 03:10 PM
#25
10-28-2015, 04:42 PM
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming
Posts: 706
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Yep, that is the way I understand it. My solution to the huge gear gaps is also expensive just not in comparison do a gear swap. I am thinking 4.30's or 4.56's. It bugs me to no end that I can go from 0-95 in second gear. I can live with turning alot higher rpm's on the interstate since I rarely use it anyways.
#26
11-09-2015, 07:50 PM
Heres the deal: an old military friend of mine in Houston was really wantin a pickup and found this 2011 f150 for a good price.....
but it had freakin transmission code issues. He thought he had a way around that as that code was usually for the OUTPUT SENSOR which he goes to aotozone or orielly and actually buys.
THIS IS WHERE I GOT DRAGGED IN because I have been a lifelong FORD guy. Only all my experience is on pre 2000 vehicles. He figured I would be able to help him determine where the output sensor location was.
Between us we just couldnt find where that thing went on that R6 and sadly enoungh it is looking like its an internal part.
SO.....being the oldschool ford guy I am I suggested just go grab a tried and true E4OD and swap it out.
Thats what my original question here was about.
But it looks like the good old boys up in Lansing dont want any of that.
So now I am up to these basic conclusions:
1) the early r6s were plagued with poor design primarily due to there being all the mechanisms for an extra gear shoved into a 5 speed body
2) 2012 models of this were supposed to come with a larger transmission case that eleviated many r6 issues
3) that the solution to the transmission issue my pal ken is having would be to do a swap with a quality rebuilt transmission that is either....
AN R5 (which goes back 1 model year for his truck and which is debugged version), OR to move up 1 version to the redesigned R6.
IF that summation is accurate at all please let me know so I can help this guy get moving again.
Also I would like to know IF ALL OF THESE ARE NON MAINTANCEABLE TRANSMISSIONS?
I have done the hydraulic fluid swap every 4 years like clockwork as well as the pan dropping and cleaning/filter change and my E4OD shifts like a new unit.
I am hearing and reading that many of the newer units dont allow this and dont even come with a fluid dipstick.
SO ANYONES INPUT ON THIS IS GLADLY WELCOMED.
THANKS GUYS.
-kevin
but it had freakin transmission code issues. He thought he had a way around that as that code was usually for the OUTPUT SENSOR which he goes to aotozone or orielly and actually buys.
THIS IS WHERE I GOT DRAGGED IN because I have been a lifelong FORD guy. Only all my experience is on pre 2000 vehicles. He figured I would be able to help him determine where the output sensor location was.
Between us we just couldnt find where that thing went on that R6 and sadly enoungh it is looking like its an internal part.
SO.....being the oldschool ford guy I am I suggested just go grab a tried and true E4OD and swap it out.
Thats what my original question here was about.
But it looks like the good old boys up in Lansing dont want any of that.
So now I am up to these basic conclusions:
1) the early r6s were plagued with poor design primarily due to there being all the mechanisms for an extra gear shoved into a 5 speed body
2) 2012 models of this were supposed to come with a larger transmission case that eleviated many r6 issues
3) that the solution to the transmission issue my pal ken is having would be to do a swap with a quality rebuilt transmission that is either....
AN R5 (which goes back 1 model year for his truck and which is debugged version), OR to move up 1 version to the redesigned R6.
IF that summation is accurate at all please let me know so I can help this guy get moving again.
Also I would like to know IF ALL OF THESE ARE NON MAINTANCEABLE TRANSMISSIONS?
I have done the hydraulic fluid swap every 4 years like clockwork as well as the pan dropping and cleaning/filter change and my E4OD shifts like a new unit.
I am hearing and reading that many of the newer units dont allow this and dont even come with a fluid dipstick.
SO ANYONES INPUT ON THIS IS GLADLY WELCOMED.
THANKS GUYS.
-kevin
#27
11-09-2015, 09:21 PM
Heres the deal: an old military friend of mine in Houston was really wantin a pickup and found this 2011 f150 for a good price.....
but it had freakin transmission code issues. He thought he had a way around that as that code was usually for the OUTPUT SENSOR which he goes to aotozone or orielly and actually buys.
THIS IS WHERE I GOT DRAGGED IN because I have been a lifelong FORD guy. Only all my experience is on pre 2000 vehicles. He figured I would be able to help him determine where the output sensor location was.
Between us we just couldnt find where that thing went on that R6 and sadly enoungh it is looking like its an internal part.
SO.....being the oldschool ford guy I am I suggested just go grab a tried and true E4OD and swap it out.
Thats what my original question here was about.
But it looks like the good old boys up in Lansing dont want any of that.
So now I am up to these basic conclusions:
1) the early r6s were plagued with poor design primarily due to there being all the mechanisms for an extra gear shoved into a 5 speed body
2) 2012 models of this were supposed to come with a larger transmission case that eleviated many r6 issues
3) that the solution to the transmission issue my pal ken is having would be to do a swap with a quality rebuilt transmission that is either....
AN R5 (which goes back 1 model year for his truck and which is debugged version), OR to move up 1 version to the redesigned R6.
IF that summation is accurate at all please let me know so I can help this guy get moving again.
Also I would like to know IF ALL OF THESE ARE NON MAINTANCEABLE TRANSMISSIONS?
I have done the hydraulic fluid swap every 4 years like clockwork as well as the pan dropping and cleaning/filter change and my E4OD shifts like a new unit.
I am hearing and reading that many of the newer units dont allow this and dont even come with a fluid dipstick.
SO ANYONES INPUT ON THIS IS GLADLY WELCOMED.
THANKS GUYS.
-kevin
but it had freakin transmission code issues. He thought he had a way around that as that code was usually for the OUTPUT SENSOR which he goes to aotozone or orielly and actually buys.
THIS IS WHERE I GOT DRAGGED IN because I have been a lifelong FORD guy. Only all my experience is on pre 2000 vehicles. He figured I would be able to help him determine where the output sensor location was.
Between us we just couldnt find where that thing went on that R6 and sadly enoungh it is looking like its an internal part.
SO.....being the oldschool ford guy I am I suggested just go grab a tried and true E4OD and swap it out.
Thats what my original question here was about.
But it looks like the good old boys up in Lansing dont want any of that.
So now I am up to these basic conclusions:
1) the early r6s were plagued with poor design primarily due to there being all the mechanisms for an extra gear shoved into a 5 speed body
2) 2012 models of this were supposed to come with a larger transmission case that eleviated many r6 issues
3) that the solution to the transmission issue my pal ken is having would be to do a swap with a quality rebuilt transmission that is either....
AN R5 (which goes back 1 model year for his truck and which is debugged version), OR to move up 1 version to the redesigned R6.
IF that summation is accurate at all please let me know so I can help this guy get moving again.
Also I would like to know IF ALL OF THESE ARE NON MAINTANCEABLE TRANSMISSIONS?
I have done the hydraulic fluid swap every 4 years like clockwork as well as the pan dropping and cleaning/filter change and my E4OD shifts like a new unit.
I am hearing and reading that many of the newer units dont allow this and dont even come with a fluid dipstick.
SO ANYONES INPUT ON THIS IS GLADLY WELCOMED.
THANKS GUYS.
-kevin
#29
11-11-2015, 06:49 PM
Youn are the first guy I have seen thats called these 6r80s good. AND NO they are not maintanable: NO DIPSTICK FOR FLUID CHECK AND/OR FLUID SWAP. If you can neither check the fluid or pump out and replace the fluid then HOW IS IT MAINTANCEABLE?
Also they stuck that 6th gear into a 5 spped sized gearbox and thay made all kinds of issues from the start WHICH IS WHY I SPECIFIED certain items in my original question:
1) 5R80
OR
2) REDESIGNED UPGRADED 6R80
FOR A 2011 F150.....
since 2008 - 2010 f150s were 5R80s with the 6r option....
its a certain that Ken could go back to that. The main thought is whether either of these has DIPSTICKS, service access, cost incentives.
THANKS AGAIN
kevin
Also they stuck that 6th gear into a 5 spped sized gearbox and thay made all kinds of issues from the start WHICH IS WHY I SPECIFIED certain items in my original question:
1) 5R80
OR
2) REDESIGNED UPGRADED 6R80
FOR A 2011 F150.....
since 2008 - 2010 f150s were 5R80s with the 6r option....
its a certain that Ken could go back to that. The main thought is whether either of these has DIPSTICKS, service access, cost incentives.
THANKS AGAIN
kevin
#30
11-11-2015, 09:31 PM
Son has a 2006 Navigator with a 6 speed ZF transmission. Runs great. 150K miles. No dip stick. I drained the oil last week, pulled the pan to check (clean and OK) reinstalled and pumped 5 quarts of new oil in the fill hole with a weed sprayer. NO dip stick needed... Little bit more complicated, but not much.