"Stock"/ Stock looking transmission swap tech article in progress

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12-06-2011, 01:15 PM

brain75

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"Stock"/ Stock looking transmission swap tech article in progress

[edit] - This is now a trans swap article, I am no longer looking for a T87D
I checked all the for sale first I promise

I figure there are a number of fellows here who are parting out the originals as part of the hotrod process and just stashing in a corner and ignoring it.

Anyone have a T87D (the "3speed HD" if my research is correct) they want to get rid of? I would like a couple of double check measurements and specs and then discuss trade.
To keep from irritating the Mods, keep any $$$ numbers to PM please.

I want a double check, the input shaft is 1 3/8" 10 spline right?

From another thread it is shown installed in a F1, with stock crossmember it looks like... so what did it come out of if you know, and any other details for sure if it will work with a "regular" crossmember (not the big hoop).

I'm looking to trade out my rock crusher crash box - not that anyone wants it, but that's the swap I am up against.

I'm in Denver, so shipping is the biggest issue I figure.
[edit] = the meat and potatoes of the interchange is post #5: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post11121365

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12-06-2011, 01:56 PM

jmadsen

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I recently sent one to Jingshu!

it was in a 52 F-1 and fit with the normal F-1 crossmember. Don't have any specific dimensions on it.

the truck it was in had been sitting under an Oak tree since about 1961 (no windows when I got it) had about 4" of composted mulch inside the cab on the floor. Shifter was stuck. when I went to clean it up (had over an inch of crud covering the case) I found a nice crack down the side of the case and half way around the bottom.
Yep, had water in it and cracked it is my guess by looking at how much rust was inside it!

Sorry, not much help I guess?

here are a couple pictures I had of it.

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12-06-2011, 02:02 PM

brain75

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All good.. From the interchange Number Dummy posted it looks like I can go all the way up to '66 (less options than the base 1/2 ton - get into F250 and panel delivery)... My local yard only keeps about 30 years worth, if it is older than 75 they send it off to a classic place, if it is newer than 05 they don't bid on em. A few yards around list a couple of 64's, but I haven't made it out to go check yet.

This is a slow hunt I have a feeling - probably tear into the install in late winter so that it is done by good driving spring weather.

I think mtflat is the one who posted finished pictures pretty clearly showing it fits so unless someone claims it has a huge adapt issue.

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12-06-2011, 02:45 PM

ALBUQ F-1

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I thought all the input shafts on 3-sp's were 1-1/8", but I could be wrong. The Parts CD doesn't list input shafts for some reason.

I wonder if you need to switch to the bigger clutch to use it? (Edit -- never mind, if you have the 4-sp spur, you must have the big clutch)

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12-06-2011, 03:10 PM

brain75

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I put together this chart as I was researching the trans options that didn't involve removing the crossmember - 90% of this is from here on FTE (mostly you, mtflat, havi, etc)... the other 10% is links to fordification, novak, and van pelt.
From all this research a few keep coming up that I would think would work - Anyone know why a New Process (like the NP435) wouldn't work? (very similar dimensions - in fact a smidge shorter, which length is the killer all the time ...): The New Process 435 Transmission - Novak Conversions

What I am lead to believe from research is that all the original stuff was 1 3/8", cept the big T98 - haven't pulled mine, so this is 100% keyboard research so far and no practicum, never held one in my hands.

Sorry for all the blank space - that is FTE doing it not me. Scroll down.
<html>
<body>
<table border='1' bgcolor='#66cdaa'>
<tbody>
<tr class="tableizer-firstrow" ><th colspan='22' align='center'>Stock Transmissions and transmissions with "zero fab" (no x-member change, as little as input shaft swap, etc)</th></tr>
<tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Output</td><td>Output</td><td colspan='2'>Transmission</td><td>Shifter</td><td></td><td>Tech<td>Load</td></td><td>Bell</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>Nickname</td><td>Year</td><td>Casting</td><td>1st</td><td>2nd</td><td>3rd</td><td>4th</td><td>Rev</td><td>Synchro</td><td>Dia</td><td>Spline</td><td>Length</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Spline</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Length</td><td>Height</td><td>Setback</td><td>Dia</td><td>Ref</td><td>Shift</td><td>Pattern</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>T8 4sp Spur</td><td>48-</td><td>T8D-1A (Driver) 59T7006 (Pass)</td><td>6.40</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.60</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.82</td><td>none</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>5 3/4"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1929-51truck4spd.jpg'>X</a></td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td>Hogshead/Integral</td><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td>T9 4sp Spur</td><td>48-52</td><td>4TA or 4TB-A9 (Drivers paint) 59T-7006 (Pass)</td><td>6.40</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.60</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.82</td><td>none</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1929-51truck4spd.jpg'>X</a></td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td> </td><td>Ford p/n A8C 7001-B</td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp LD</td><td>48-50</td><td>3C</td><td>2.81</td><td>1.60</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>3.62</td><td>2-3</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1948-55truck-3spd.jpg'>X</a></td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>Ford p/n 21C-7001-A (1948)</td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp LD</td><td>48-51</td><td>3CS</td><td>2.78</td><td>1.62</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>3.63</td><td>2-3</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>Ford p/n A8C-7001-A (1948)</td></tr>
<tr><td>3 spd HD</td><td>48-52</td><td>3D (T87D)</td><td>3.71</td><td>1.87</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>4.59</td><td>2-3</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td>8 1/4"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.fordification.com/tech/images/3spd_T87E-G.jpg'>X</a></td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td> </td><td>Ford p/n A8C-7001-C (1948) no PTO</td></tr>
<tr><td>3 sp LD</td><td> </td><td>T89</td><td>3.00</td><td>1.83</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>3.00</td><td>2-3</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.fordification.com/tech/images/3spd_T89C-F.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t89.htm'>X</a></td><td>TL</td><td> </td><td> </td></tr>
</table>
 
<table border='1' bgcolor='#ffdead'>
<tr><td colspan='23' align='center'>Transmissions "that are known to work" (bellhousing adapaters are made, crossmember must be cut/replaced)</td></tr>
<tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Output</td><td>Output</td><td colspan='2'>Transmission</td><td>Shifter</td><td></td><td>Tech<td>Load</td></td><td>Bell</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>Nickname</td><td>Year</td><td>Casting</td><td>1st</td><td>2nd</td><td>3rd</td><td>4th</td><td>Rev</td><td>Synchro</td><td>Dia</td><td>Spline</td><td>Length</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Spline</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Length</td><td>Height</td><td>Setback</td><td>Dia</td><td>Ref</td><td>Shift</td><td>Pattern</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>3 spd HD</td><td>53-</td><td>3D (T87D)</td><td>3.71</td><td>1.87</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>4.59</td><td>2-3</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td>9 17/32"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.fordification.com/tech/images/3spd_T87E-G.jpg'>X</a></td><td> </td><td>TL</td><td> </td><td>Swap input, hogshead, etc? no PTO</td></tr>
<tr><td>T86</td><td>53-64</td><td>T86AA</td><td>2.79</td><td>1.68</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>3.79</td><td>2-3</td><td>1 3/8</td><td>6</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>9"</td><td>14"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1955-60V8OD-260-272-292.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t86.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLSS</td><td> </td><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp OD</td><td>65-71</td><td>T85N-1A</td><td>2.94</td><td>1.68</td><td>1.00</td><td>OD/0.85 ?</td><td>2.94</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://media.photobucket.com/image/t85n%20diagram/mil1ion/67-79%20Ford%20Truck%20Information/Clutch%20and%20Transmission%20Related/scan0048.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://speedprint.com/deves50/doc/bwservice.pdf'>X</a></td><td>SL</td><td> </td><td>235 L6</td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp OD</td><td>65-71</td><td>T85N-1A</td><td>2.94</td><td>1.68</td><td>1.00</td><td>OD/0.85</td><td>2.94</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://media.photobucket.com/image/t85n%20diagram/mil1ion/67-79%20Ford%20Truck%20Information/Clutch%20and%20Transmission%20Related/scan0048.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://speedprint.com/deves50/doc/bwservice.pdf'>X</a></td><td>SL</td><td> </td><td>OD</td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp OD</td><td>65-71</td><td>T85N-1A</td><td>2.47</td><td>1.53</td><td>1.00</td><td>OD/0.85 ?</td><td>2.80</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://media.photobucket.com/image/t85n%20diagram/mil1ion/67-79%20Ford%20Truck%20Information/Clutch%20and%20Transmission%20Related/scan0048.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://speedprint.com/deves50/doc/bwservice.pdf'>X</a></td><td>SL</td><td> </td><td>283 V8</td></tr>
<tr><td>3sp OD</td><td>65-71</td><td>T85N-1A</td><td>2.21</td><td>1.32</td><td>1.00</td><td>OD/0.85 ?</td><td>2.51</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://media.photobucket.com/image/t85n%20diagram/mil1ion/67-79%20Ford%20Truck%20Information/Clutch%20and%20Transmission%20Related/scan0048.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://speedprint.com/deves50/doc/bwservice.pdf'>X</a></td><td>SL</td><td> </td><td>348 V8</td></tr>
<tr><td>4 sp HD "synchro silent"</td><td>48-55</td><td>4TH T98</td><td>6.40</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.82</td><td>2-3,3-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td>9 11/16"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1948-51truck-4spd.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t98.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td> </td><td>Requires F2+ x-member</td></tr>
<tr><td>T19A Close</td><td>83-86</td><td>13-09 13428 (tag)</td><td>4.02</td><td>2.41</td><td>1.41</td><td>1.00</td><td>6.96</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT19.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>common, blue oval claims 74-85, also listed as '68-86, swap has been done by HD74 (stock pedal and clutch) has 3.50 & wish 3.70 rear, MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T19</td><td>83-84</td><td>13-09</td><td>5.11</td><td>3.03</td><td>1.79</td><td>1.00</td><td>6.96</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT19.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>rare, should work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T19 Wide</td><td>83-86</td><td>13-09 13427 (tag)</td><td>6.32</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.00</td><td>6.96</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT19.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>diesel F250, should work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T5 (S10) *</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>350MT</td><td>6cyl has been done with Dwight Bond Plate by '51ford fan', Multiple V8 swaps have been done by several members</td></tr>
</table>
* T5 Note - there are 30 years of T-5 transmissions by Borg/Warner, and currently TREMEC is still manufacturing T-5's (2012.01.01). The number of gear ratios and options are bewildering - there are hundreds of articles, dozens that are very thurough. I am not going to add 400 lines to the chart to try to cover the T5. It is a superbly supported, very modifiable, very replaceable, very maintainable, and easily obtained transmission. 
 
<table border='1' bgcolor='#33cccc'>
<tr><td colspan='23' align='center'>Transmissions "that should work" - no known examples though</td></tr>
<tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Output</td><td>Output</td><td colspan='2'>Transmission</td><td>Shifter</td><td></td><td>Tech<td>Load</td></td><td>Bell</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>Nickname</td><td>Year</td><td>Casting</td><td>1st</td><td>2nd</td><td>3rd</td><td>4th</td><td>Rev</td><td>Synchro</td><td>Dia</td><td>Spline</td><td>Length</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Spline</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Length</td><td>Height</td><td>Setback</td><td>Dia</td><td>Ref</td><td>Shift</td><td>Pattern</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>T98A</td><td>55-72</td><td>T98A</td><td>6.40</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.82</td><td>2-3,3-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1948-51truck-4spd.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t98.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td> </td><td>should work with F2+ crossmember & MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T18</td><td>67-78</td><td>T18-1E</td><td>6.32</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.44</td><td>2-3,3-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td>6</td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td>4 1/4"</td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT18.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>Made 65-91, Blue oval claims 56-73,should work with F2+ crossmember & MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T18</td><td>79-??</td><td>13-01</td><td>6.32</td><td>3.09</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.44</td><td>2-3,3-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td>31</td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td>4 1/4"</td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT18.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>should work with F2+ crossmember & MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T18B</td><td>67-72</td><td>T18B?</td><td>4.32</td><td>2.26</td><td>1.51</td><td>1.00</td><td>7.44</td><td>2-3,3-4</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>11 7/8"</td><td>17 1/2"</td><td>4 1/4"</td><td><a href='http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Diagrams/borgT18.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford SB</td><td>rare, diesel, should work with F2+ crossmember & MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170F RUG - SMOD</td><td>78-84</td><td> </td><td>2.78</td><td>1.93</td><td>1.36</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.78</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/6"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TL</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Wide Ratio", inputs are modular or can be bought, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170F RUG - SMOD</td><td>78-84</td><td> </td><td>2.32</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.29</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.32</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TL</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Close Ratio" 25 spline output tends to shear, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170FS RUG - SROD</td><td>80-83</td><td> </td><td>2.78</td><td>1.93</td><td>1.36</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.78</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>RS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Wide Ratio", on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170FS RUG - SROD</td><td>80-83</td><td> </td><td>2.32</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.29</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.32</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>RS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Close Ratio", on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170FT RTS - TOD</td><td>84-85</td><td> </td><td>2.78</td><td>1.93</td><td>1.36</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.78</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Wide Ratio", should be OD?, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170FT RTS - TOD</td><td>84-85</td><td> </td><td>2.32</td><td>1.69</td><td>1.29</td><td>1.00</td><td>2.32</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Close Ratio", should be OD?, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170 "Truck"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>3.01</td><td>1.78</td><td>1.00</td><td>0.79</td><td>3.01</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Wide Ratio Truck (Bronco), on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter"</td></tr>
<tr><td>T170 "Truck"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>3.25</td><td>1.92</td><td>1.00</td><td>0.78</td><td>3.25</td><td>1-4</td><td>1 3/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>25,28,31</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>TLTS</td><td>"Ford butterfly" *</td><td>1" too long ? "Close Ratio Truck (Bronco), on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter"</td></tr>
<tr><td>NP435</td><td>66-92</td><td>NP435L</td><td>6.68</td><td>3.34</td><td>1.66</td><td>1.00</td><td>8.26</td><td>2-4</td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>10.8"</td><td>17.7"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/graphics/np435_transmission_parts_exploded_view.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford butterfly</td><td>larger - frame triming? Blue oval claims R = 8.02, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>NP435</td><td>66-92</td><td>NP435E</td><td>6.68</td><td>3.34</td><td>1.74</td><td>1.00</td><td>8.26</td><td>2-4</td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>10.8"</td><td>17.7"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/graphics/np435_transmission_parts_exploded_view.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford butterfly</td><td>larger - frame triming? 69-79 have 28 spline output, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
<tr><td>NP435</td><td>66-92</td><td>?</td><td>4.78</td><td>2.39</td><td>1.37</td><td>1.00</td><td>?</td><td> </td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>6 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>10.8"</td><td>17.7"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/graphics/np435_transmission_parts_exploded_view.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford butterfly</td><td>larger - frame triming? blue oval claims 64-85, on paper looks like it would work with MEC adapter</td></tr>
</table>
* T170 note: specifications are fairly rare, but in one place I have it shown that it uses a Ford butterfly when installed in a Ford truck (and is fairly easily interchanged with a T18 on a 4x4 using a b/w 1345 transfer case). Appears the car version uses a shorter input shaft. 
 
<table border='1'>
<tr><td colspan='23' align='center'>Transmissions "under investigation" - more details are needed</td></tr>
<tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Input</td><td>Output</td><td>Output</td><td colspan='2'>Transmission</td><td>Shifter</td><td></td><td>Tech<td>Load</td></td><td>Bell</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>Nickname</td><td>Year</td><td>Casting</td><td>1st</td><td>2nd</td><td>3rd</td><td>4th</td><td>Rev</td><td>Synchro</td><td>Dia</td><td>Spline</td><td>Length</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Spline</td><td>Stickout</td><td>Length</td><td>Height</td><td>Setback</td><td>Dia</td><td>Ref</td><td>Shift</td><td>Pattern</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>T150</td><td> </td><td>2603xxx</td><td>2.99</td><td>1.75</td><td>1.00</td><td>n/a</td><td>3.17</td><td>2-3</td><td>1 1/16"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td>7 1/2"</td><td> </td><td> </td><td>9.25"</td><td>14"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/attachments/f2/524d1243606290-t150-disassembly-jeept150.jpg'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t150.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Ford butterfly</td><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td>T160</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr>
<tr><td>NV4500</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>"Chevy"</td></tr>
<tr><td>SM465</td><td>C '68-91</td><td>3871912, 3901127, 673212, 6273212, 3901131, 465453, 8672267, 867287</td><td>6.55</td><td>3.58</td><td>1.57</td><td>1.0</td><td> </td><td>all</td><td>1 1/8"</td><td>10</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td>12"</td><td>18"</td><td> </td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/graphics/SM465_exploded_bw.gif'>X</a></td><td><a href='http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm'>X</a></td><td>TLTS</td><td>Muncie/350MT</td><td>Chevy only aka CH465, should work with T5 adapter</td></tr>
</table>
 
<table border='1' bgcolor='#cd5c5c'>
<tr ><td colspan='3' align='center'>Transmissions that are "out", length is way too long (longer than T5) or integral bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>Nickname</td><td>aka</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>FM145</td><td> </td><td>X long - T5 is better candidate</td></tr>
<tr><td>FM146</td><td> </td><td>X long - T5 is better candidate</td></tr>
<tr><td>FM132</td><td> </td><td>X long - T5 is better candidate</td></tr>
<tr><td>MR51</td><td>aka M5R1</td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>MR52</td><td>aka M5R2</td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>NV1500</td><td> </td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>NV3500</td><td> </td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>ZF542</td><td> </td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>ZF547</td><td> </td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>
<tr><td>ZF560</td><td> </td><td>Integral Bellhousing</td></tr>

</tbody>
</table>
</body>
TL = Top Loaded 
SL = Side Loaded 
 
RS = tuRret Shift 
SS = Side Shift 
TS = Tower Shift 
 
 
<hr/>
Flathead Notes: 
32-48 V8, 59A pattern 
49-53 V8, 8BA pattern 
Stock 8RT bellhousing used on 49-53 convert the 8BA pattern to 59A pattern 
part number also listed as 8RT-6392 and refered to as "housing assembly" in manual 
Hogshead part number is sketchy, but casting number is 01T-7505 
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_trans-adapters.htm 
 
<hr/>
Wilcap makes the following adapter 
59A-350MT hogshead replacement that adapts 32-53 59A or 8BA (49-53 8BA with stock 8RT) to S10 T5 
FHT-350BHA plate (adapts 6 bolt hogs head to chevy 350MT muncie pattern i.e. s-10 T5) 
FHT-FT5BHA plate (adapts 6 bolt hogs head to Ford T5) 
FHT-FTLBHA plate (adapts 6 bolt hogs head to '64-78 Ford top loader) 
Not listed on price sheet, but advertised on subpage 
 
"little" truck hogs head (when detachable) are 2 3/4" thick 
"big" truck hogs head (all detachable) are 5" thick 
http://www.wilcap.com/flathead.html 
 
<hr/>
MEC makes the following adapter 
Flat head to Toploader (appears to be hogshead replacement - only work on the 59A pattern) 
Flat head to T5 Ford (appears to be a hogshead replacement - only work on the 59A pattern) 
http://modelengineeringco.com/bellhous.htm 
 
<hr/>
Speedway sells the following inhouse and Offenhauser adapters 
8BA to 350MT kit (marketed as 32-48 Ford/39-50 Mercury to T5 adapter) 
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Offenhauser-Chevy-T-5-Transmission-to-Flathead-Adapter-Kit,35589.html 
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Chevy-T-5-Transmission-to-Flathead-Adapter-Kit,35584.html 
8BA to "standard chevy" - looks like same pattern as T5 - the 350MT 
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Offenhauser-Standard-Chevy-Trans-to-Flathead-Adapter-Kit,35588.html 
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Standard-Chevy-Trans-to-Flathead-Adapter-Kit,35583.html 
 
<hr>
Mac's Speed Equipment makes the following adapters 
"Flathead" to Ford Top Loader Falcon T5 
"Flathead" to GM Muncie/T10/Saginaw/ T5 (looks like standard 350MT pattern) 
http://www.macsspeed.com/adapters_2.html 
specifically noted for 6 1/2" input shaft 
 
<hr/>
Trans to Bellhousing Notes: 
The bolt pattern between the transmission and either bellhousing or hogshead, etc - the bolt pattern machined into the front of the transmission. 
A great visual writeup that unfortunately does not include measurements: http://www.wilcap.com/tech.html 
Ford Tall and Narrow - used 1949-64, toploaders 
<http://www.wilcap.com/4964FORD.JPG 
Ford SB - "Ford Small Block" - I have only come across this as a description, no pictures, no measurements - I suspect this is slang for the butterfly, one site claims T18 has small block, another claims T18 has butterfly. 
Ford butterfly - "Ford symetricrical butterfly" 8-1/2" wide by 6-5/16" tall. 
Hogshead - Ford pattern used on stock 1948 flathead era vehicles, 6 bolts 
http://www.wilcap.com/59ABH5.JPG 
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ46lGArJCfkhIBOhhtT3AMXdE8daOLk 4_Ky26h-dvKyGZYCgIpVg 
Muncie/350MT - "350MT" the most common pattern found in Chevy vehicles, this is also described as Muncie, Saginaw 
http://www.wilcap.com/MUNCIE.JPG 
 
<hr/>
F2+ Crossmember note: The F2-F6 crossmember has a larger bolt pattern for a larger brake master cylinder - swapping crossmembers is not a straight forward no complications solution. 

</body>
</html>

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12-06-2011, 03:14 PM

teardropty

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Join Date: May 2010

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This is my T87D out of a 1954 F250. Not sure if the 53-56 T87Ds will bolt up right with pre-53's as the bellhousing seems different (based on the photo by jmadsen). I may have one in the shed. I will look and PM you if I do.

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12-06-2011, 03:48 PM

brain75

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Side by side I'll (steal and ) repost mtflat's picture of a '52 (mounted in a '48 with small original crossmember)

I do see a little difference in the transmission to bellhousing bolts and the 2 piece bellhousing (separate clutch house), but mechanically they look close enough to me

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"Stock"/ Stock looking transmission swap tech article in progress

"Stock"/ Stock looking transmission swap tech article in progress

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