6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van

No Start after Head Gasket Replacement

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #46  
Old 10-20-2011, 08:24 AM
NewToDiesels's Avatar
NewToDiesels
NewToDiesels is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LA = Lower Alabama
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You'll want to replace that STC fitting anyway. They go bad at an alarming rate.

Yeah, you've got a good tool with the Scangauge.
 
  #47  
Old 10-20-2011, 12:52 PM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I replaced the driver side rail with new stand pipes and dummy plugs. No change in the sound of the air. It still sounds like it's coming from beneath the pump.

Now I can't seem to get the oil filter out. I didn't crank down on it or anything when I installed, so I'm not sure why that is. I'm gonna go get a 34mm or 35mm socket and a oil filter wrench (the one tool I've never owned) so I can check for bubbles there.

I'm betting I screwed up when I installed the pump screen. The instructions I have show someone lowering it into place with the flat side down. I'm now wondering if the rubber "handle" side goes down and by incorrectly installing it if I crushed it into pieces or clogged up the drain when I tightened the oil cooler down, thus destroying the pump.
 
  #48  
Old 10-20-2011, 02:11 PM
npccpartsman's Avatar
npccpartsman
npccpartsman is offline
Hotshot

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Ar
Posts: 15,326
Received 68 Likes on 42 Posts
Originally Posted by rlandrum
I replaced the driver side rail with new stand pipes and dummy plugs. No change in the sound of the air. It still sounds like it's coming from beneath the pump.

Now I can't seem to get the oil filter out. I didn't crank down on it or anything when I installed, so I'm not sure why that is. I'm gonna go get a 34mm or 35mm socket and a oil filter wrench (the one tool I've never owned) so I can check for bubbles there.

I'm betting I screwed up when I installed the pump screen. The instructions I have show someone lowering it into place with the flat side down. I'm now wondering if the rubber "handle" side goes down and by incorrectly installing it if I crushed it into pieces or clogged up the drain when I tightened the oil cooler down, thus destroying the pump.
Handle side goes up and the bottom of the cooler pushes against it to keep it in place.

The oil filter socket is a 36mm and is about $7 for a craftsman.
 
  #49  
Old 10-20-2011, 02:27 PM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I remove the oil filter and retested. The burbling sounds were louder, but I detected no bubbles in the oil within the oil filter housing.

It's clear I don't understand the various components involved. Is there a good write-up on the HPO system... basically, how does the LPO system feed the HPOP, how is the high pressure oil returned to the LPO sump, and how is the high pressure oil routed through the engine?
 
  #50  
Old 10-20-2011, 03:05 PM
vloney's Avatar
vloney
vloney is offline
Postmaster

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: waynesville, mo.
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
The IPR will do the same thing if its defective. If you had a way to change the duty cycle of it you could test it. On edit, I just saw where you tested it, my bet.....pump.
 
  #51  
Old 10-20-2011, 03:30 PM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vloney
The IPR will do the same thing if its defective. If you had a way to change the duty cycle of it you could test it. On edit, I just saw where you tested it, my bet.....pump.
I'm struggling to understand how a head gasket change could cause the oil pump to stop working properly. It ran well enough prior to the head gasket work start perfectly every time.
 
  #52  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:15 PM
NewToDiesels's Avatar
NewToDiesels
NewToDiesels is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LA = Lower Alabama
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cranks but won't start. No Oil Pressure - TheDieselGarage.com

The above thread is one of the most comprehensive threads I've seen on tracking down a HPO leak, not once, but 3 different times in the span of a week or two. If you have time to read it - it will help you with understanding the HPO system. This guy has an 03 motor, but the principle is the same and the parts are only slightly different. Key difference being you have the STC fitting. His persistence is amazing and he has great insights as well. To me it was very informative.

Good question on the why it the the HPO system would spring a leak, be it STC fitting or HPOP. Ultimately, it's your truck and your time and your money and we're all typing on computers trying to use your eyes, ears, and fingers.

I have seen a diagram on the HPO system. Trying to find it.
 
  #53  
Old 10-20-2011, 07:46 PM
2006powerstroke90's Avatar
2006powerstroke90
2006powerstroke90 is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,672
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
I'm sure it's gotta be fustrating as hell.

But hang it there you'll get it
 
  #54  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:02 PM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for that... I think I may know why now.

The air is flowing from the rail into the pump and out the inlet and burbling in the sump/screen area, I believe. This problem has most likely existed for some time, and through a clogged oil cooler, the leak was probably not bad enough to prevent the vehicle from starting.

I was surprised at the truck's seeming lack of power while towing, and it's slow acceleration, but attributed it to the difference between a two-wheel drive vehicle and a 4-wheel drive. It felt less powerful than my 2wd 2000 7.3, which almost always ran great. I'm guessing the HPOP was leaking the entire time and replacing the oil cooler, and possibly leaving the pump to drain empty for a month (and clearing the internal pump seals of clogged oil cooler debris), caused my no-start condition.

The burbling is louder with the filter off because that's the path of least resistance. Sealing the housing moves the air and burbling noise to the turbo oil feed.

I need a new HPOP. Suggestions welcome.

Originally Posted by NewToDiesels
Cranks but won't start. No Oil Pressure - TheDieselGarage.com

The above thread is one of the most comprehensive threads I've seen on tracking down a HPO leak, not once, but 3 different times in the span of a week or two. If you have time to read it - it will help you with understanding the HPO system. This guy has an 03 motor, but the principle is the same and the parts are only slightly different. Key difference being you have the STC fitting. His persistence is amazing and he has great insights as well. To me it was very informative.

Good question on the why it the the HPO system would spring a leak, be it STC fitting or HPOP. Ultimately, it's your truck and your time and your money and we're all typing on computers trying to use your eyes, ears, and fingers.

I have seen a diagram on the HPO system. Trying to find it.
 
  #55  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:18 PM
NewToDiesels's Avatar
NewToDiesels
NewToDiesels is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LA = Lower Alabama
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
  #56  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:44 AM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NewToDiesels
Sounds logical to me...
I received the new HPOP yesterday and installed it last night. I no longer hear any noise when the IPR is powered and the air line is connected.

The old pump that came off made a very disconcerting metal-on-metal clunking noise I'm not happy about. I drained it and have to ship it back to avoid a core charge, but does this sound normal? The new one was too stiff to turn by hand, so I'm the original was pretty well hosed.

Also, the IPR connector on the new IPR that came with the pump faces 180 degrees away from where it used to sit. It used to point rearward down at about 45 degrees and now points frontward up at 45 degrees. I'm concerned about the proximity of the wires to the exhaust inlet port. Is this the new preferred IPR connector location or should I use my old IPR?

BTW, thanks for all the help tracking down this no-start issue. I hope to get the turbo back in tonight and fire it up (finally).
 
  #57  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:59 AM
2006powerstroke90's Avatar
2006powerstroke90
2006powerstroke90 is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,672
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
You should be able to turn that back to where it was, atleast I was able to do that on mine....

Can't wait to hear the outcome
 
  #58  
Old 10-25-2011, 12:20 PM
rlandrum's Avatar
rlandrum
rlandrum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2006powerstroke90
You should be able to turn that back to where it was, atleast I was able to do that on mine....

Can't wait to hear the outcome
Probably not without stripping the threads or destroying the pump. I'm using an IPR socket tool, and I've torqued it pretty close to spec from feel. The nut has bottomed out against the pump surface, so I don't think forcing it is the right way to go.
 
  #59  
Old 10-25-2011, 12:42 PM
NewToDiesels's Avatar
NewToDiesels
NewToDiesels is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LA = Lower Alabama
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I would probably use the old IPR valve, but for a different reason. I'd rather have a new spare, than an old spare.

I would think that the heat shielding over the connector would be enough protection for the connector. But I am definitely guessing on that one. My new IPR valve stopped in the same place you mention that your old one did. You can't turn it any further and you certainly don't want to under-torque it so that it's in the old position. Leak city...

I'm not much help on this one...
 
  #60  
Old 10-25-2011, 12:45 PM
cmdevildog16's Avatar
cmdevildog16
cmdevildog16 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
hope that all works out for ya....i have been reading up on this thread and it has given me some more insight for when i do mine...and looks like im not to far from you...lol
 


Quick Reply: No Start after Head Gasket Replacement



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:50 PM.