Does anyone want a F-150 diesel option?
#31
10-14-2011, 09:28 AM
I think that if Ford was ever going to offer a light duty diesel option in the F-150, that it would very likely have materialized while they owned Land Rover (LR). Even in 2008 (when Ford sold them off)' LR had a couple different smaller diesels that could have had potential in North America. As that never materialized, I have to think that it is just not going to happen.
The increasingly stringent emissions requirements obviously play a significant role, but I almost wonder if there is not enough available market for a light duty diesel. Maybe there is not enough profit. Who knows?
From my standpoint (and having come from two Powerstroke diesel trucks), the added cost of maintenance & fuel (~+$0.35/gal.) really make a light duty diesel unattractive. If I could justify a diesel for heavy towing/hauling, I think that I would be inclined to go with a Super Duty to get the larger & more stable platform. But, that is just my two cents...
The increasingly stringent emissions requirements obviously play a significant role, but I almost wonder if there is not enough available market for a light duty diesel. Maybe there is not enough profit. Who knows?
From my standpoint (and having come from two Powerstroke diesel trucks), the added cost of maintenance & fuel (~+$0.35/gal.) really make a light duty diesel unattractive. If I could justify a diesel for heavy towing/hauling, I think that I would be inclined to go with a Super Duty to get the larger & more stable platform. But, that is just my two cents...
#32
10-14-2011, 04:10 PM
The only way we would see a diesel in an F150 would be if they were going to offer something like the Cummins 4BT, in my opinion. A medium/small displacement 4 cylinder would do good in mpg and modest towing requirements.
Almost assuredly, the F150 will be getting smaller, as reducing weight/mass is the easiest way to increase efficiency. The ecoboost has been a huge success, and we know that they will be offering smaller EB engines in the future as well. With the epa hating diesel in this Country, the vast success of the EB engines, the ability to use the differnt EB engines in other vehicles, the competition going to at least DI engines and on and on.... We will almost guaranteed never see a diesel offered in the F150.
Almost assuredly, the F150 will be getting smaller, as reducing weight/mass is the easiest way to increase efficiency. The ecoboost has been a huge success, and we know that they will be offering smaller EB engines in the future as well. With the epa hating diesel in this Country, the vast success of the EB engines, the ability to use the differnt EB engines in other vehicles, the competition going to at least DI engines and on and on.... We will almost guaranteed never see a diesel offered in the F150.
#33
10-14-2011, 08:16 PM
After reading the article posted above me, here are my thoughts.
Yes the Ecoboost is supposed to be a diesel like offering in the F-150, but the question at hand will a small diesel perform better than the Ecoboost? Will it get better mileage? Be faster and tow more weight easily? All the while still being reasonable priced?
In short...I think not.
I think a Diesel F-150 would be kick ***! But it’s not really a practical option anymore. Sure a Diesel engine might perform a little better than the Ecoboost, but probably not enough to justify the added cost to the MSRP.
The article also mentioned about how the F-150 can only handle so much...If you are pushing those limits, then you are better off looking at Superdutys. Now I know the F-150 is a stout truck...IMO the stoutest amongst all the current 1/2 ton trucks, but when equipped with the Ecoboost or the 6.2L V8 the F-150 is rated to tow just a hair over 11,000lbs, That’s almost double what 1/2 tons were rated at 20 years ago.
I would say anyone that tows 5,000 to 8,000lbs regularly the F-150 would be the perfect truck...Anyone who needs to 10,000lbs or more on a regular basis should be looking at Superdutys.
So here's the way I see things.
Small diesel F-150...
#1 - Probably won't be any faster than an Ecoboost, 6.2, 5.0L F-150.
#2- Will only have slight if any gains in fuel economy.
#3- Will be unreasonably expensive while other engines are more practical choice's.
People can wish all day long for a diesel F-150...But I just don't see it happening. At least not anytime soon...Maybe forever.
Yes the Ecoboost is supposed to be a diesel like offering in the F-150, but the question at hand will a small diesel perform better than the Ecoboost? Will it get better mileage? Be faster and tow more weight easily? All the while still being reasonable priced?
In short...I think not.
I think a Diesel F-150 would be kick ***! But it’s not really a practical option anymore. Sure a Diesel engine might perform a little better than the Ecoboost, but probably not enough to justify the added cost to the MSRP.
The article also mentioned about how the F-150 can only handle so much...If you are pushing those limits, then you are better off looking at Superdutys. Now I know the F-150 is a stout truck...IMO the stoutest amongst all the current 1/2 ton trucks, but when equipped with the Ecoboost or the 6.2L V8 the F-150 is rated to tow just a hair over 11,000lbs, That’s almost double what 1/2 tons were rated at 20 years ago.
I would say anyone that tows 5,000 to 8,000lbs regularly the F-150 would be the perfect truck...Anyone who needs to 10,000lbs or more on a regular basis should be looking at Superdutys.
So here's the way I see things.
Small diesel F-150...
#1 - Probably won't be any faster than an Ecoboost, 6.2, 5.0L F-150.
#2- Will only have slight if any gains in fuel economy.
#3- Will be unreasonably expensive while other engines are more practical choice's.
People can wish all day long for a diesel F-150...But I just don't see it happening. At least not anytime soon...Maybe forever.
i think the ecoboost *IS* our half ton diesel, by way of substitution. The only aspect that is still in question is long term durability in the real world. Diesels have a predisposed reputation for strength and durability, where as the ecoboost is a fairly new design, and new for use in trucks.
That being said, may of the construction techniques that make diesels so durable appear to be incorporated in the design of the ecoboost (e.g. cast oil pans, cross bolted main caps, direct injection), so there is a good chance that this "little engine that could" can and will survive. (i'm still not buying one for a few years though)
If the ecoboost is what i think it is, and does what i think it will do, ford and everyone else will soon be "ecoboosting" everything. I think it is also very likely that the current ecoboost will be "the big motor" in the lineup at some point in the near future. I do look for a boosted 4-banger to replace the 3.7 at some point when CAFE standards take a jump.
#35
11-08-2011, 12:41 PM
Freshman User
It would be nice if Ford ditched gasoline power for all their trucks, since diesel is obviously superior in every way.
Well, at least it should be.
Seems like nearly every diesel manufacturer these days has to develop over-complicated crap that has poor longevity. So, if they can figure out how to design a reliable common-rail system, then I say they should go for it.
They should probably give Delphi a call and send Bosch a letter that says, "your services will not be necessary".
The F-150 would be good with a 4-liter, inline-5, direct-injection, common rail diesel with a bigger variable geometry turbocharger and gear-driven timing. Lets have a 4500rpm redline and a nice flat hp curve with 300-350bhp from 2500-4200. 300bhp at 2500rpm is 630ft/lbs, a perfectly reasonable goal. In a properly designed truck with a manual tranny, this could easily provide 24-29mpg in an unloaded truck.
It would be fast, fun, efficient, and fairly EASY TO DESIGN AND WORK ON.
Well, at least it should be.
Seems like nearly every diesel manufacturer these days has to develop over-complicated crap that has poor longevity. So, if they can figure out how to design a reliable common-rail system, then I say they should go for it.
They should probably give Delphi a call and send Bosch a letter that says, "your services will not be necessary".
The F-150 would be good with a 4-liter, inline-5, direct-injection, common rail diesel with a bigger variable geometry turbocharger and gear-driven timing. Lets have a 4500rpm redline and a nice flat hp curve with 300-350bhp from 2500-4200. 300bhp at 2500rpm is 630ft/lbs, a perfectly reasonable goal. In a properly designed truck with a manual tranny, this could easily provide 24-29mpg in an unloaded truck.
It would be fast, fun, efficient, and fairly EASY TO DESIGN AND WORK ON.
#36
11-08-2011, 12:47 PM
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#37
11-08-2011, 12:52 PM
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#38
11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
The EcoBoost is about as close to an oil-burner as you can get and still be a gasoline engine.
#39
11-08-2011, 01:04 PM
An upgraded suspension frame would be required as the article alluded to. Plus the added cost of a diesel engine would make for one beautiful machine but one most couldn't afford.
The Super Duty trucks, as they are now, are great trucks but totally over priced. So would be a diesel in the F-150. Economies of scale remember?
The Super Duty trucks, as they are now, are great trucks but totally over priced. So would be a diesel in the F-150. Economies of scale remember?
#41
11-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Ford ships the Super Duty in Brazil with a 3.9 liter diesel engine as an option.
I'm pretty sure that the marketing gurus at FoMoCo see a diesel as only for the Super Duty customer. Everything else is gas.
Which, in my opinion, is a mistake, because there are plenty of other customers who do not necessarily need to tow 12,000 lbs, but would appreciate the fuel economy of a diesel.
It doesn't matter if diesel costs 40 cents more per gallon. That's only 11% more than gas, but you get 15% or better fuel economy because of greater thermal efficiency. (Based on 3.20 gal gas, 3.60 diesel).
I'm pretty sure that the marketing gurus at FoMoCo see a diesel as only for the Super Duty customer. Everything else is gas.
Which, in my opinion, is a mistake, because there are plenty of other customers who do not necessarily need to tow 12,000 lbs, but would appreciate the fuel economy of a diesel.
It doesn't matter if diesel costs 40 cents more per gallon. That's only 11% more than gas, but you get 15% or better fuel economy because of greater thermal efficiency. (Based on 3.20 gal gas, 3.60 diesel).
#42
11-08-2011, 01:59 PM
Build It And They Will Come!
#43
11-08-2011, 03:24 PM
#44
11-08-2011, 04:05 PM
The incredible short sightedness of all diesel naysayers is unbelievable.
There are plenty of 4 cyl diesel engines worldwide that are in heavy use, that are NOT 6.7l engines!!
Really! A 6.7 in a half ton truck?? It couldn't carry its own engine! Yet that is the assumption of many? To what end?
I'm dying for a half ton 4 cyl diesel engine, so much so, I'm nearly willing to import any Japanese, Korean and yes.... even an Indian built Mahindra!
There are Toyota mini-vans all over the world with little natural grunters doing the job of F-150 gassers today!
Have you ever seen Fords little mini truck in Australia? It's a diesel, 1/4 ton mini-truck, looks like a car with a truck bed. It's called a Falcon Ute.
Ute safety hits the hip pocket - www.drive.com.au
Comes in a diesel!!! Bigger than the VW Rabbit truck!!! Way more HP and fuel economy!
Then there's that famous Ranger T6..... yeees.... still being built with a diesel option.
Read this:
"The 2011 Ranger sports a freshened contemporary exterior and interior design; a new range of diesel and gas powertrains with increased performance, more torque and improved fuel economy; new technologies that provide greater comfort and better handling; and is longer, wider and taller than the model it replaces. "
Link here: First Look: All-New 2011 Ford Ranger "T6" Global Pickup Truck - PickupTrucks.com News
Look at these two diesel options: Ford’s Duratorq TDCi diesel engines include a 2.2-liter inline-four-cylinder with up to 276 pounds-feet of torque and a 3.2-liter inline-five-cylinder with a robust 346 pounds-feet of torque.
FORD ALREADY MAKES TWO! They make several smaller models.
But not here.
Blame the left in part, especially Klownifornia for their diesel emission lies- yes, Klownifornia was caught lying about diesel emissions so they could make diesel more expensive with emission's devices and charge something for the State coffers every few years in smogging.
Ford!
Really!!
Pull your head out! We need these models here!
BTW- I've driven the Ute....awesome little car... steering wheel on wrong side is the only problem! I'm sure Ford is smart enuff to figure that out... most shade tree mechanics can do it with a set of vise grips, flat head screw driver and a 3lb hammer.
There are plenty of 4 cyl diesel engines worldwide that are in heavy use, that are NOT 6.7l engines!!
Really! A 6.7 in a half ton truck?? It couldn't carry its own engine! Yet that is the assumption of many? To what end?
I'm dying for a half ton 4 cyl diesel engine, so much so, I'm nearly willing to import any Japanese, Korean and yes.... even an Indian built Mahindra!
There are Toyota mini-vans all over the world with little natural grunters doing the job of F-150 gassers today!
Have you ever seen Fords little mini truck in Australia? It's a diesel, 1/4 ton mini-truck, looks like a car with a truck bed. It's called a Falcon Ute.
Ute safety hits the hip pocket - www.drive.com.au
Comes in a diesel!!! Bigger than the VW Rabbit truck!!! Way more HP and fuel economy!
Then there's that famous Ranger T6..... yeees.... still being built with a diesel option.
Read this:
"The 2011 Ranger sports a freshened contemporary exterior and interior design; a new range of diesel and gas powertrains with increased performance, more torque and improved fuel economy; new technologies that provide greater comfort and better handling; and is longer, wider and taller than the model it replaces. "
Link here: First Look: All-New 2011 Ford Ranger "T6" Global Pickup Truck - PickupTrucks.com News
Look at these two diesel options: Ford’s Duratorq TDCi diesel engines include a 2.2-liter inline-four-cylinder with up to 276 pounds-feet of torque and a 3.2-liter inline-five-cylinder with a robust 346 pounds-feet of torque.
FORD ALREADY MAKES TWO! They make several smaller models.
But not here.
Blame the left in part, especially Klownifornia for their diesel emission lies- yes, Klownifornia was caught lying about diesel emissions so they could make diesel more expensive with emission's devices and charge something for the State coffers every few years in smogging.
Ford!
Really!!
Pull your head out! We need these models here!
BTW- I've driven the Ute....awesome little car... steering wheel on wrong side is the only problem! I'm sure Ford is smart enuff to figure that out... most shade tree mechanics can do it with a set of vise grips, flat head screw driver and a 3lb hammer.
#45
11-08-2011, 05:29 PM
Freshman User
