Has anybody used this or heard anything about it? Waste of money?

Riffraff Diesel: Derale Transmission Pan Coolers

 

Yes, I believe it is a waste of money. If you want to cool the transmission get a better cooler, not a pan. The pan doesn't get cool air so it can't cool the fluid. It's hot under the truck, a cooler out near the grill gets cool air and is MUCH more effective.

 

OK, I hear that. After doing some google searching, I think I'm just going for the extra volume that it holds, 5 quarts. Other deep pans I saw held 2 to 4 quarts and cost $200 and up. I didn't check every site. So price wise, the Derale might be worth the money. Although it's stamped steel vs aluminum, so rusting could be an issue. I could always have it sprayed with bed liner. Cost difference now?

Yes, I agree a cooler would be a definite must have, and I will do also, not just the pan. But more fluid should help with cooling also.

 

How does more fluid help with cooling? Please help me understand that.

 

I agree with Mark. I have a BD pan like that one and all it did was leak. I took it off and got a 4by4 pan for a little extra fluid with the drain plug, thanks Coon (Joe). Mine is somewhere in my junk pile, lol.

 

The way i understand it is, the bigger radiator keeps the engine from overheating faster than a small radiator (along with the thermostat). The more fluid something has, the longer it takes to circulate the fluid allowing it to cool down or stay cooler. Anything running hydraulics has a pretty big reservoir to give the fluid a chance to cool down, plus handle any minor leaks. Maybe 5 quarts isn't that much to make a big difference, but with the addition of a cooler and the extra fluid it holds, it should. But I'm no physicist. I think I read it somewhere.

Anyway, I was figuring since Riffraff was selling it, it would be worth it, and thought I'd ask for opinions.

 

I would maybe caution against spraying with bedliner, seems like unwanted insulation. For rust protection I suggest an oil leak forward of the pan, it has worked with everything I own ;-)

 

Hah, I think I'm covered then.

 

in theory it seems like more fluid would run cooler, but iam not gonna argue with an engineer. i will pay attention to this thread to see where it goes

 

I'm no engineer either, and I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm trying to learn. I've worked with and around equipment a little and am going on what I've seen and been told. Maybe not rightly.

So why do the sell oversized pan? Knowing there a dummies like me out there that'll buy 'em?

 

ive always known 4x4s to have a large pan, but never really thought about why. with a deeper pan, you would need a deeper filter or some type of extention (my bronco had one). now my head hurts...thanks

 

You'lll note that I said above that if you want to cool the trans better get a larger cooler. A larger radiator (or trans cooler) cools better because there is more surface area to cool the fluid, not because they hold more fluid. A 6.0L cooler will cool FAR better than your stock cooler, and it holds maybe one quart more fluid. It's the surface area, not the fluid.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! That's exactly right.

4x4s, until the 4R100, had a deeper pan to keep the fluid pickup covered with ATF when the truck is tilted. The expectation is that a 4x4 is more likely to get off road and in a condition where the truck is tilted to a greater degree than a 4x2 would. A deeper pan with a longer filter pickup will stay covered with ATF when the truck is tilted far better than a 4x2 pan.

The 4x2 had ground clearance problems so they had to use a shallower pan. Ford has standards that require a minimum ground clearance and the 4x4 pan in a pre-'99 truck didn't have enough clearance. The '99 and newer trucks sit higher off the ground and have enough clearance for the deeper pan, so starting with the 4R100 all the transmissions use the 4x4 depth pan. It's cheaper to have one pan and one filter for all transmissions.

 

Thanks Mark. You made me get off my butt and do a little research. I hope we all can take this in fun, and hopefully I/we can learn something in the process. I don't want to make enemies here, I enjoy the banter. And I can use all the help I can get.

That being said, here goes. Alas, I'm not going to take George's advise to not argue with an engineer. After all, many a mechanic has corrected an engineer's mistakes.

I agree that a cooler is a must and previously said that. Radiators radiate heat.

Here's were I thought I was getting flamed and had to stop and think things through. I made fun of myself, and maybe that opened it up for you. Me not knowing you and your sense of humor. I know I can come off sarcastic without meaning to be. Hence the research, such as it is, that will be listed below.

This actually makes a lot of sense and I agree with the theory.

You, however, didn't address my hydraulic explanation.? There's many a piece of equipment out there that use hydraulics and do not have a radiator to cool the fluid. Instead, they use a large reservoir to hold the fluid. This reservoir acts as a cooling tank. The more fluid that is in the tank, the longer it sits there to cool down before going back into the system were it heats up do to friction. Granted, a transmission creates a lot more friction, therefore heat, so the need for a radiator to cool it.

Would you agree that engine oil, besides lubrication, also helps to cool the engine? Our diesel engines have larger oil pans than gasoline engines of equivalent size. As you know, diesels create more heat due to the high compression needed to ignite the fuel. The larger oil capacity helps the oil to cool down as it sits in the pan before being circulated again.

Anyway, here's a list of sites I found:

Cast Aluminum Deep Pans
"Extra fluid means more cooling, and more cooling means better efficiency and performance."

Hughes Performance HP4680 - Hughes Performance Deep Aluminum Transmission Pans - Overview - SummitRacing.com
"The extra capacity helps keep your transmission running at a lower temperature and increases its overall life expectancy"

Riffraff Diesel: Derale Transmission Pan Coolers
"Reduces Fluid Temperatures from 20 Degrees F to 50 Degrees"

PML transmission pan and differential covers can add years of life to your truck when pulling a trailer with extra oil capacity.
"Big difference in the size of the new pan and the old one. More oil means cooler oil."

http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter....notes/nn15.pdf
"Adding increased cooling with a different oil pan. A supply of transmission oil is stored in its sump or oil pan. Some heat dissipation occurs as the oil sits here, waiting to be pumped back through the system to the transmission. There may be an after-market transmission pan available for the truck that helps reduce oil temperature. Usually these work in two ways. Most are larger than the original pan which adds more oil capacity and thus more oil to absorb the heat. Some are made of aluminum which conducts heat quickly, exchanging more of it to the air. Additionally, fins increase the surface area enhancing heat exchange. This is a relatively low cost way to achieve some reduction in oil temperature. Before trying this option, check to see if the new pan affects ground clearance adversely."

What I liked about the Derale pan that this tread was asking about, besides the 5 quarts extra fluid, are the tubes though the bottom. They create more surface area that the fluid is in contact with allowing more heat to be dissipated. I would have to add a thermostat port to it. Of course, for more money I could get an aluminum pan, as aluminum dissipates heat quickly.

Let the flaming begin...

 

All the advocates are selling a product ,what do you expect them to say ?.. More fluid (to me) means longer fluid life , not cooling .

7.3s have a large oil capacity ,to extend the life of the oil due to the direct injection.. The 7.3 actually needs the oil to be hot to obtain best fuel economy & to remove condensation from the C Case...

One of the reasons we advocate a 203 thermostat ...

I have the newer style pan on mine because it has a drain ...

 

Thanks Mark. I do realizing there are advertizing gimmicks to sell these. That's why I thought I'd ask about the pan. I keep hearing to keep the tranny fluid as cool as possible, both on line and from my tranny shop. Nothing about just right temps. I know this is true for engines, they're more efficient warmed up to its operating temperature than cold.

So why isn't the transmission fluid system sealed up like the engine radiator with a thermostat to control the operating temp? Or is it somehow internally? I am leaning about these automatics now that I want to have mine rebuilt.

I thought the article in the last link in my previous post was informative and neutral on the pan size idea. Maybe not. It does says that keeping the tranny cooler longer during initial warm up will cause sluggish shifting for awhile.

I will ask the tranny mechanic here what his opinion is on bigger pans and correct tranny temp. I know they will add a cooler as they told me that.