Cummins or Powerstroke??
#1
09-19-2011, 08:41 PM
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Cummins or Powerstroke??
Ok, I have a couple questions about a diesel conversion for my truck.....Truck is a 99 F250 V10 4x4 with auto tranny. My question is would it be easier to do a cummins conversion (since they actually make a kit to do it minus the engine) or how difficult would it be to throw a 7.3 from around the same year into the truck??? What all would I need aside from the complete engine to put a 7.3 in vs a cummins? Only reason I'm considering going this route is that I am stuck with the truck for at least 3 more years cause I didn't do my research and turned upside down with the financing as soon as I drove off the lot!! The truck itself is super nice, just was really disappointed in that V10 when I pulled my jeep on a trailer over the mountains from Denver to Moab. Need more power!!!!
#2
09-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Just out of curiosity - did you let your gasser scream through the mountain inclines? Usually it takes higher RPM's to generate power with the gassers - they will still get loads rolling, and your jeep on a trailer I wouldn't consider all that heavy - under 10k I would guess.
On another note, have you considered refinancing your truck? It is usually easier to do this while the truck is newer. Consider the amount of $$ that you are going to spend on the engine conversion and consider using that to re-finance and knock your current payment down. Then when you do that you will have more free'd up cash. Even if the finance rate is higher you can still make out pretty good and save some $$ by dropping your payment.
On another note, have you considered refinancing your truck? It is usually easier to do this while the truck is newer. Consider the amount of $$ that you are going to spend on the engine conversion and consider using that to re-finance and knock your current payment down. Then when you do that you will have more free'd up cash. Even if the finance rate is higher you can still make out pretty good and save some $$ by dropping your payment.
#3
09-19-2011, 09:23 PM
What gear's do you have in the truck? 4.30s are popular with the V10 guys, if you have a lift and tires 4.56s are probably a better bet. Let the truck spool up to 4000-4500, maybe even 5k, it'll be a lot different then letting it chug along around 3k. Gears are a heck of a lot cheaper than a full engine swap.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...ml#post6452458
A far as the pull goes, the stretch up 70 to the west side of the tunnel out of Dillon is where I broke my trucks in. My 2002 Ranger with the 4.0L V6 and 4.10s towed a 5k trailer up it just fine, just put it in 3rd and let the engine scream. The 4.6L V8 in a 2000 Expedition made the same pull even faster, I'd be very surprised if your V10 couldn't blow the shorts off both of those, that Expy was underpowered and heavy as lead.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...ml#post6452458
A far as the pull goes, the stretch up 70 to the west side of the tunnel out of Dillon is where I broke my trucks in. My 2002 Ranger with the 4.0L V6 and 4.10s towed a 5k trailer up it just fine, just put it in 3rd and let the engine scream. The 4.6L V8 in a 2000 Expedition made the same pull even faster, I'd be very surprised if your V10 couldn't blow the shorts off both of those, that Expy was underpowered and heavy as lead.
#4
09-19-2011, 09:47 PM
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Just out of curiosity - did you let your gasser scream through the mountain inclines? Usually it takes higher RPM's to generate power with the gassers - they will still get loads rolling, and your jeep on a trailer I wouldn't consider all that heavy - under 10k I would guess.
#5
09-19-2011, 09:52 PM
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What gear's do you have in the truck? 4.30s are popular with the V10 guys, if you have a lift and tires 4.56s are probably a better bet. Let the truck spool up to 4000-4500, maybe even 5k, it'll be a lot different then letting it chug along around 3k. Gears are a heck of a lot cheaper than a full engine swap.
#6
09-19-2011, 10:17 PM
#7
09-19-2011, 10:25 PM
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#8
09-19-2011, 10:26 PM
It is the stock gears with bigger tires. Doesn't seem like your tires are all that big, but it does throw the whole power band off causing you to redline in first then bog in second (at least that's what it sounds like)
You have the power to pull those hills with that weight in 3rd, but you're way outta your power band.
Get some really aggressive gearing and it'll fix the problem, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.
You have the power to pull those hills with that weight in 3rd, but you're way outta your power band.
Get some really aggressive gearing and it'll fix the problem, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.
#9
09-19-2011, 10:32 PM
If my V-10 ever craps out I am planning a 94-98 cummins swap. Since it's not a daily driver I can take my time with the swap which will be nice, but on the other hand the V-10 will probably last forever since it does not get driven much
Your in the same boat as me 99 was the lowest powered V-10 and you always want more, truck trailer and load my 6.8 has pulled around 30,000 pounds. Just keep your foot on the floor and keep your eye on the gas gauge and you will get there.
Personally I would not want to do a engine swap while making payments on a vehicle inless I had to.
Your in the same boat as me 99 was the lowest powered V-10 and you always want more, truck trailer and load my 6.8 has pulled around 30,000 pounds. Just keep your foot on the floor and keep your eye on the gas gauge and you will get there. Personally I would not want to do a engine swap while making payments on a vehicle inless I had to.
#10
09-19-2011, 10:41 PM
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Yes the truck is well maintained, and basic tune ups are always done on schedule. The engine itself was not bogging down, never has. It performed just like it should. Just doesn't have the power. Like the other guys are saying, most is probably attributed to the gearing with the tad larger tires.
That's what I thought the answer might be. And to swap cab and bed to get an engine just isn't realistic for me. The cab and bed on my truck even though its a 99 are still in like new shape. So I think I'll be going the cummins route!
#11
09-19-2011, 10:46 PM
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It is the stock gears with bigger tires. Doesn't seem like your tires are all that big, but it does throw the whole power band off causing you to redline in first then bog in second (at least that's what it sounds like)
You have the power to pull those hills with that weight in 3rd, but you're way outta your power band.
Get some really aggressive gearing and it'll fix the problem, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.
You have the power to pull those hills with that weight in 3rd, but you're way outta your power band.
Get some really aggressive gearing and it'll fix the problem, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.
#12
09-19-2011, 10:54 PM
Where are you getting the 5k number for a swap? Destroked gives the stats at more like 5k for the motor, plus 5k in parts, and another 5k for labor unless you have the facilities/ inclinations to do this yourself. The second the price tag gets over $7500, you could have a used late 90s/early 00s Dodge with the Cummins already in it, just for the cash you're dumping into the swap and not counting the payments you're making. It seems like you're trying to justify spending 5-10 grand in cash for this swap instead of taking a few grand worth of a bath getting out of your truck, and switching your payments to something that you actually want. I guess I'm just confused; if you have the cash for the conversion, put it with the truck you have and get into something you want. Unless you're $5k (or whatever the swap ends up costing) upside down right now, you're better off getting a different truck. If you're in this just for the sake of putting a Cummins in a Ford, you might not come out on top money wise, but you'll have your toy.
Edit: To be fair, if you really want to do it, it can be done. TO answer your original question, you don't just need the motor, you need all the accessories for it, engine mounts, a radiator and intercooler than can be plumbed to match, a new flex plate and maybe trans internals to get that the mount up, the fan and shroud has to be figured out to fit the Ford clip, you need an entire fuel system from the guts of the tank to a filter setup to the hard lines in the frame, a new exhaust system. How do you plumb the heater core and a/c compressor into the Ford ducts? What patches do you need to get the wiring harness on the 5.9 to run the cluster? Where do you put the 2nd battery tray? It's not like the engine just drops in and bolts up to what's there, you're replacing or altering 3/4s of the drivetrain, the entire fuel system, the exhaust, every wiring harness in front of the firewall, and patching into every harness behind it. Destroked it a good place to start to see the complexity of it; it's very possible, several guys have done it well, it's just not a weekend-warrior type swap you do in your driveway in your spare time.
http://www.fordcummins.com/99-07Ford5_4and6_8.pdf
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...9-cummins.html
Edit: To be fair, if you really want to do it, it can be done. TO answer your original question, you don't just need the motor, you need all the accessories for it, engine mounts, a radiator and intercooler than can be plumbed to match, a new flex plate and maybe trans internals to get that the mount up, the fan and shroud has to be figured out to fit the Ford clip, you need an entire fuel system from the guts of the tank to a filter setup to the hard lines in the frame, a new exhaust system. How do you plumb the heater core and a/c compressor into the Ford ducts? What patches do you need to get the wiring harness on the 5.9 to run the cluster? Where do you put the 2nd battery tray? It's not like the engine just drops in and bolts up to what's there, you're replacing or altering 3/4s of the drivetrain, the entire fuel system, the exhaust, every wiring harness in front of the firewall, and patching into every harness behind it. Destroked it a good place to start to see the complexity of it; it's very possible, several guys have done it well, it's just not a weekend-warrior type swap you do in your driveway in your spare time.
http://www.fordcummins.com/99-07Ford5_4and6_8.pdf
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...9-cummins.html
#14
09-19-2011, 11:30 PM
Postmaster
if your on a budget and it sure sounds like you are, then regearing is going to be WAYYYY cheaper in the long run..
and make it easier on your trucks trans to boot..
forget the cummins swap and just regear, not only can you regain the lost power you seek, but u can actualy gain power aswell..
i'd jump to 4:56 and call it a day. if you have the $$$ left over after i'd strongly suggest a 5-star SCT and a custom tune.
and make it easier on your trucks trans to boot..
forget the cummins swap and just regear, not only can you regain the lost power you seek, but u can actualy gain power aswell..
i'd jump to 4:56 and call it a day. if you have the $$$ left over after i'd strongly suggest a 5-star SCT and a custom tune.
#15
09-19-2011, 11:47 PM
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Where are you getting the 5k number for a swap? Destroked gives the stats at more like 5k for the motor, plus 5k in parts, and another 5k for labor unless you have the facilities/ inclinations to do this yourself. The second the price tag gets over $7500, you could have a used late 90s/early 00s Dodge with the Cummins already in it, just for the cash you're dumping into the swap and not counting the payments you're making. It seems like you're trying to justify spending 5-10 grand in cash for this swap instead of taking a few grand worth of a bath getting out of your truck, and switching your payments to something that you actually want. I guess I'm just confused; if you have the cash for the conversion, put it with the truck you have and get into something you want. Unless you're $5k (or whatever the swap ends up costing) upside down right now, you're better off getting a different truck. If you're in this just for the sake of putting a Cummins in a Ford, you might not come out on top money wise, but you'll have your toy.
Edit: To be fair, if you really want to do it, it can be done. TO answer your original question, you don't just need the motor, you need all the accessories for it, engine mounts, a radiator and intercooler than can be plumbed to match, a new flex plate and maybe trans internals to get that the mount up, might have to relocate the trans crossmember to account for the length of the Cummins inline 6, that means new d-shafts, the fan and shroud has to be figured out to fit the Ford clip, you need an entire fuel system from the tank itself to a filter setup to the hard lines in the frame, a new exhaust system. How do you plumb the heater core and a/c compressor into the Ford ducts? What patches do you need to get the wiring harness on the 5.9 to run the cluster? It's not like the engine just drops in and bolts up to what's there, you're replacing or altering 3/4s of the drivetrain, the entire fuel system, the exhaust, every wiring harness in front of the firewall, and patching into every harness behind it. Destroked it a good place to start to see the complexity of it; it's very possible, several guys have done it well, it's just not a weekend-warrior type swap you do in your driveway in your spare time.
Edit: To be fair, if you really want to do it, it can be done. TO answer your original question, you don't just need the motor, you need all the accessories for it, engine mounts, a radiator and intercooler than can be plumbed to match, a new flex plate and maybe trans internals to get that the mount up, might have to relocate the trans crossmember to account for the length of the Cummins inline 6, that means new d-shafts, the fan and shroud has to be figured out to fit the Ford clip, you need an entire fuel system from the tank itself to a filter setup to the hard lines in the frame, a new exhaust system. How do you plumb the heater core and a/c compressor into the Ford ducts? What patches do you need to get the wiring harness on the 5.9 to run the cluster? It's not like the engine just drops in and bolts up to what's there, you're replacing or altering 3/4s of the drivetrain, the entire fuel system, the exhaust, every wiring harness in front of the firewall, and patching into every harness behind it. Destroked it a good place to start to see the complexity of it; it's very possible, several guys have done it well, it's just not a weekend-warrior type swap you do in your driveway in your spare time.
I appreciate all the info you guys have given me, and trying to save me money time and probably lots of headaches. You've convinced me to just spring for some 4.56's and see how that works out. Possibly a tuner if I feel I need anymore after. I swear, sometimes I get these ideas in my head and just get carried away before considering other routes.