WOW, what a great series of post FlywayF250! I couldn't agree with you more. When looking at things from a cold rational point of view the PSD is not near the bargin that many diesel fans promote it as being.

That is not to say I would try to talk someone out of buying one but for those that "ride empty" alot, they just need to know that the V-10 has gotten an undeserved rep of being a gas hog (it is not)

For every post that mentions a 23 mpg 6.0L PSD, I can post "real world" best tanks of 18 mpg with that same powertrain for real vehicals in our fleet.

To this I would add, if someone is driving their 6.0L PSD equipt F-SuperDuty so lightly loaded that they can run through three (3) tanks full of diesel at a 23 mpg average, why did they bother getting the diesel? Just because they like them?

I know that's why I bought my Expy! I don't need all the interior room, passanger flexablity or towing capacity, but I wanted it. I didn't NEED the extra HP and Torque that the 5.4L engine gives me over the 4.6L either, but I wanted that too, lol

 

Severe service oil change interval is 5000 miles on the 6.0. I agree that if you run empty a lot it is a lot harder to justify the diesel unless you just really want one. The 23 MPG I posted was just the best empty mileage I have heard of and I'm not suggesting that everyone will get 23 MPG, especially when loaded. I am suggesting that we don't really know what the average mileage of the 6.0 will be yet because most people haven't put enough miles on their trucks to break them in.

 

the 16-18 mpg I listed was the averages for the three F-SuperDutys we have with the 6.0L PSD. THey are all loaded, everyday with approx 1100 lbs of tools & equipment and from time to time tow small job trailers or air compressors. Our lowest mileage unit has over 30,000 miles on it, they are broke in.

We also have five 6.8L V-10 equipt units (in addition to several 7.3L PSD units) that live much the same lives and return an average of 10-12 mpg

BTW, the 6.0L PSD is much quicker to 60 mph then the old 7.3L PSD, especially when loaded. BUT it is no match for the V-10 when each of them is empty . . . not even close, at least 2 seconds and three truck lengths behind. When heavily loaded, the story does change a bit.

 

bump
and now being even more deviouser

 

Point 1) If the diesel is given even a modest amount of powerbraking before launch, the advantage off the line that the gasser has goes away. The V10 being quicker is really quite untrue in regular driving - it is only off the line performance in the hands of an unskilled or turbo challenged driver.

Point 2) Fuel mileage. Hands down winner for the diesel both unloaded, and loaded, but loaded/towing is where it really shines. Unloaded the gasser gets 10 to 12 MPG versus the 17 to 19 of the 6.0 l diesel.

When towing a gasser would get in the 4.5 to 5.5 MPG range to the 8.5 to 9.5 MPG range for trailers in the size class that I pull.

Diesel fuel prices are seasonal and regional but over all tend to be lower than regular and when added to the fuel savings do help out the numbers.

Point 3) For $400 or there abouts, you can realize a huge gain in torque and HP in the diesel that will not only erase any double that a V10 owner might have about the gasser being fast, but almost do it while while towing another gasser (slightly joking). Most of the tuners will also improve the fuel mileage under towing conditions and improve the numbers.

Still it comes down in many cases to personal preference regardless of which way the numbers come in.

I was always in the gasser camp till I started considering towing and then began to look closer at the diesels and started test driving them and talking to owners of both class trucks at RV shops.

Won't find a gas engine in any high end RV, that's for sure.

 

I used to be really anti-diesel, until I owned one. I would have to have a real good reason to buy a truck that didn't have a diesel.

 

You dead wrong there sir.
Cummins has 600 ft/tq
The Duramax Curently (seems to change daily) leads with 605 ft/tq

 

I will say this also. On this board alone I see posts of guys that had V10 and traded for the diesel and wonder why they didn't go that direction in the first place. Could kick themselves.

 

Dmax,
very old thread...
I just resurrected it to get the ole juices flowing again

Wich it apparently has

 

I thought that Ford was going to claim 590 this year or something like that. What did they finally end up going with?

 

It's prolly the most repeatable thing not only on this forum but on a chevy forum I frequest also (8.1 to Dmax). I'm not a big fan of gassers in anthing bigger then a 3/4 ton anyways. But if your only gonna keep the thing a few years and use it a few times year for hauling then maybe it's for you.

 

JD you are bored!

 

I did love my F-150 with the 5.4 l motor. Was a great truck and I was sorry to see it go, but the F-250 with the 6.0 is a real truck. I look back on the good old days with the F-150 kind of like my days as a young teen before my first real girlfriend, i.e. one that did more than kiss ;->

Kiss only girlfriend = gasser
Real girlfriend = diesel

 

The thread is old but worthy. By the way, I think FlywayF250 won the above debate with JohnDiesel and the V10 is arguably better, based solely on an objective look at the numbers. Of course, there is more to life than numbers; however, I looked at a few numbers when deciding which engine to buy. For me, it was May 2003 and the choice was between the 5.4 and the 6.0 (or possibly 7.3 (I only pull a boat and small trailers)) I wanted to keep the truck for 200,000 miles and I was told to expect excellent economy from Ford's new diesel. I was told by at least two 7.3 owners that they got 18-22 mpg ("never less than 18 mpg one told me, and as much as 22). As everyone knows, dealers were saying the new 6.0 is 10% more efficient than the 7.3. Therefore, expecting 20-22 mpg I shelled out the money for the diesel. However, in contrast to my expectations, my economy is only fair and not excellent. Rather than getting 20-22 mpg, I get 15.9 (which is good for this enormous vehicle, but less than 80% my expectation). Also in contrast to my expectations, the reliability is clearly not there. I would be shocked to get to 200,000 miles without major, repeated repairs. My truck bucks after startup while idling. If I don't warm it up forever, it won't take off in the morning (even if I were to floor it, it just barely rolls) Maybe it'll max out at 159,000, just like the mileage. However, as I said, there is more to it than the numbers. Notwithstanding that my mileage is below expectation and the drivetrain will likely fall to pieces just outside the 100,000 mile warranty period, I like the diesel because it is as fast as a rocketship, it sounds good, it smells good, I can floor it and it will blow black smoke on liberal bicyclists in Austin that hog the road, I can upgrade it to 100+ more horsepower with a chip if I feel like it, and with the tow mode I can use engine braking (do v10's have that?). Anyway, if I were to carry rationality to the extreme I wouldn't have a boat, because I probably pay $350 for every fish I catch and $600 every time I pull a skier. For me, the truck is kind of a toy (not to mention my sole means for transportation) but for many it is a tool, which is where the rationality/numbers come in. As far as numbers go, I saw a spreadsheet and the breakeven point on fuel cost versus extra charge for diesel was about 75,000 miles. Even if my truck proves unreliable, I'll try to keep it to 98,000, which is past the breakeven point. Either way, the truck is expensive, but fun. Life is too short not to be able to tow anything, go fast, and haul 6 people in relative comfort. My $0.02 worth.

 

The initial driveability problems were unfortunate. A reprogram to get rid of the pilot injection can work wonders.

Can you believe the fuel prices. It would be a larger margin now. My problem is. None of my cars will take the cheap stuff. So Im faced with a 1.86 versus 2.20 for premium.

I will take the diesel any day of the week. For reliability. Fuel economy. Towing ability. Coolness factor. Longevity.

The reason you get the money back in resale is because the truck will last twice as long. So you are getting two engines for the price of one. Not too mention the most heavy duty parts available on the market. Can you get a dana 80 in a v10?