Leaving truck idle when re fueling?
#16
07-12-2011, 06:30 AM
[quote=caddy;10563671]I never do it with my gas trucks and never have. In my mind Diesel has no spark plugs or distributor or plug wires. I guess I have opened the hood on my ole trucks, in the past, and watched the electrical show with old wires and distributor. With spark and gas fumes, well it just don't mix well. With todays electronic ignition, it may not be as big a risk, but old school still prevails. If you spark around diesel, the risk seems to be negligable IMO.
#17
07-12-2011, 07:35 AM
[quote=Gearitis;10564811]
I never do it with my gas trucks and never have. In my mind Diesel has no spark plugs or distributor or plug wires. I guess I have opened the hood on my ole trucks, in the past, and watched the electrical show with old wires and distributor. With spark and gas fumes, well it just don't mix well. With todays electronic ignition, it may not be as big a risk, but old school still prevails. If you spark around diesel, the risk seems to be negligable IMO.
The idea of shutting off the engine while fueling is really a bad idea. If you're looking at it as some sort of fire safety thing, it is not.
Gas fueling fires ignite due to static discharges which have nothing whatsoever to do with whether the engine is running or not. Diesel of course doesn't ignite from a static discharge at all.
The hot exhaust theory is also bogus since the exhaust is on the opposite side of the vehicle from the fuel fill.
Ignition system sparks is also a bogus theory, since when you start a vehicle you produce vastly more sparks in the starter which is also at a lower position in the vehicle than ignition components and thus more likely to be in range of any gasoline vapors.
The wasted fuel argument is also silly, since the fuel consumed in 10 minutes of idling is negligable.
About the only valid reason to shut off the vehicle *and* remove the key while fueling is if you are in an area where there is a risk of someone jumping in your truck and driving off while you are out trying to fuel it or inside paying. Given the ease of locking the running truck while fueling and unlocking with the door keypad when you're done, even this reason isn't very relevant.
I never do it with my gas trucks and never have. In my mind Diesel has no spark plugs or distributor or plug wires. I guess I have opened the hood on my ole trucks, in the past, and watched the electrical show with old wires and distributor. With spark and gas fumes, well it just don't mix well. With todays electronic ignition, it may not be as big a risk, but old school still prevails. If you spark around diesel, the risk seems to be negligable IMO.
Gas fueling fires ignite due to static discharges which have nothing whatsoever to do with whether the engine is running or not. Diesel of course doesn't ignite from a static discharge at all.
The hot exhaust theory is also bogus since the exhaust is on the opposite side of the vehicle from the fuel fill.
Ignition system sparks is also a bogus theory, since when you start a vehicle you produce vastly more sparks in the starter which is also at a lower position in the vehicle than ignition components and thus more likely to be in range of any gasoline vapors.
The wasted fuel argument is also silly, since the fuel consumed in 10 minutes of idling is negligable.
About the only valid reason to shut off the vehicle *and* remove the key while fueling is if you are in an area where there is a risk of someone jumping in your truck and driving off while you are out trying to fuel it or inside paying. Given the ease of locking the running truck while fueling and unlocking with the door keypad when you're done, even this reason isn't very relevant.
#18
07-12-2011, 10:15 AM
Don't leave it running if you're running an AirDog or similar fuel air separator with a return line...you'll end up with either a lap full of diesel or the pump will keep shutting off because the filler neck is filling up double quick (although that experience can vary with the nozzle and fill rate...)
Anyway, I always leave my truck running...sorry... I typically fuel at truck stops or the oil company yard which has a fast fill rate (as opposed to the typical chain store "gas" stations). In the winter it keeps the heat going, the summer the A/C kicking and when towing heavy it lets the EGTs settle down to under 400 degrees. Oil coking in my turbos bearings is not the least bit attractive to me...
I had several horrific experiences with my 6.0 Excursion that was running too close to "E" for comfort and actually had to bleed the lines right there at the pump to get it to start after some hard/prolonged cranking. Believe me, I KNOW it's super bad to run a diesel dry (it didn't stall or roll into the station either time, was just low/"E") which is why a Titan is in order for my '10 F250, in addition to the 5-gallon fuel can that I ALWAYS have handy (the Zombie Apocalypse is coming you know...). I also know that it is SUPER DUPER HORRIFICALLY BAD to run a common-rail out of fuel...that's the kind of worse case scenario that wakes me up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, screaming "NOOOOO!!!"...
YMMV may vary of course!
Anyway, I always leave my truck running...sorry... I typically fuel at truck stops or the oil company yard which has a fast fill rate (as opposed to the typical chain store "gas" stations). In the winter it keeps the heat going, the summer the A/C kicking and when towing heavy it lets the EGTs settle down to under 400 degrees. Oil coking in my turbos bearings is not the least bit attractive to me...
I had several horrific experiences with my 6.0 Excursion that was running too close to "E" for comfort and actually had to bleed the lines right there at the pump to get it to start after some hard/prolonged cranking. Believe me, I KNOW it's super bad to run a diesel dry (it didn't stall or roll into the station either time, was just low/"E") which is why a Titan is in order for my '10 F250, in addition to the 5-gallon fuel can that I ALWAYS have handy (the Zombie Apocalypse is coming you know...). I also know that it is SUPER DUPER HORRIFICALLY BAD to run a common-rail out of fuel...that's the kind of worse case scenario that wakes me up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, screaming "NOOOOO!!!"...
YMMV may vary of course!
As far as shutting it down for safety, the flashpoint of gasoline (the temp that it turns from a liquid to vapor) is MUCH lower than diesel fuel. As far as using a cell phone during fueling- go ahead and do it. Unless you shut it down (or pull the battery) it is constantly "handshaking" with the cell towers anyway, whether you are on a call or not- no difference. Paranoia passed that regulation.
Idle if you want, shut down if you don't.
#19
07-12-2011, 05:52 PM
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I do it a lot in the winter when plowing. And Crazy001 do you really think that bearings in the turbo shouldn't be cooled somewhat before shutting them off? I am not saying idling at a pump for 5 mins. But I guess I beleive the 'myth' as do 95% of people with a turbo in the car or truck. I am not saying I am right, just saying that when I pull in from plowing and that thing is smoking hot, I let it idle. Just like the guys who have been towing serious loads. Why would you want to stop the circulation of oil to two turbos that are spinning with extreme inertia? I'd want to make sure that there was oil there just until the turbo winds down.
#20
07-12-2011, 06:39 PM
It takes too long for me to fuel to let it run. First I have to open the tool box and move the guns out of the way. Then I add 20 ozs of DK to the empty tank. Then I get arrangements made to turn on the pump so I can fill up without restarting three times, (or I reload my credit card three times which is even longer), plus I always pump a sample into my test jar to see what the water content is after the flow starts but before pumping more than a couple gallons, then when I hang the nozzel up I have to get out the funnel and pour the contents of my test jar into the tank, then I have to wipe the back flow off the fender and wash my hands and pay. Heck, by the time I'm done I'd need another couple gallons if I left it running. Life was so simple in the 50s.
#21
07-12-2011, 07:09 PM
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I do it a lot in the winter when plowing. And Crazy001 do you really think that bearings in the turbo shouldn't be cooled somewhat before shutting them off? I am not saying idling at a pump for 5 mins. But I guess I beleive the 'myth' as do 95% of people with a turbo in the car or truck. I am not saying I am right, just saying that when I pull in from plowing and that thing is smoking hot, I let it idle. Just like the guys who have been towing serious loads. Why would you want to stop the circulation of oil to two turbos that are spinning with extreme inertia? I'd want to make sure that there was oil there just until the turbo winds down.
#22
07-12-2011, 07:13 PM
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It takes too long for me to fuel to let it run. First I have to open the tool box and move the guns out of the way. Then I add 20 ozs of DK to the empty tank. Then I get arrangements made to turn on the pump so I can fill up without restarting three times, (or I reload my credit card three times which is even longer), plus I always pump a sample into my test jar to see what the water content is after the flow starts but before pumping more than a couple gallons, then when I hang the nozzel up I have to get out the funnel and pour the contents of my test jar into the tank, then I have to wipe the back flow off the fender and wash my hands and pay. Heck, by the time I'm done I'd need another couple gallons if I left it running. Life was so simple in the 50s.
#23
07-12-2011, 07:42 PM
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I have a small fleet of diesel pick-ups, all Fords, most are 7.3's, and I tow usually between 10-15k loads almost daily and and I do leave my trucks running for a couple of minutes when refueling until the EGT's are below 350. I've never had any turbo or any other engine issues and I do the same with my 08 6.4 especially since I got rid of the crap (DPF & EGR) on it and made it a good powerful truck.
#24
07-12-2011, 08:36 PM
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That's a pretty subjective comment. Maybe I don't have the long run offs that highways have out in the middle of the country or something because when I pull off of the highway around here albeit towing or plowing, the egts can be smoking hot. I guess we need a engineer to chime in on what is a safe temp for the turbo and bearings to be before shutting off. But how could it make more sense to shut the truck off at let's say 500f pre turbo egt vs around 300f? I would think the slower your heat cycles are the longer the materials will last.
#25
07-12-2011, 11:21 PM
I live in Wyoming. I turn my engine off and lock the doors for three reasons.
1. The risk of theft in Wyoming is pretty low. I have friends who haven't locked their cars or homes in over 20 years. Their homes remain open even during vacations. But, I cannot afford to develop the habit of leaving my truck unlocked and/or running when I step away from it simply because I don't want to leave it unlocked and running when I have to visit some ****hole like Los Angeles or Compton California.
2. If I have firearms in the truck, it would be irresponsible to leave the truck running and or unlocked even in Wyoming. Better to turn off the engine and lock the doors every time than forget you have loaded firearms in the truck because the chances of not having loaded firearms in your truck in Wyoming are zero.
3. I hate carrying keys. I have an XL. I also have a locking cap cap. The cas cap key is on the same ring as my ignition and camper shell keys. I'm not going to carry an extra key ring or extra ignition key, so I have to remove the ignition key to refill and get the fuel additive out of the bed.
1. The risk of theft in Wyoming is pretty low. I have friends who haven't locked their cars or homes in over 20 years. Their homes remain open even during vacations. But, I cannot afford to develop the habit of leaving my truck unlocked and/or running when I step away from it simply because I don't want to leave it unlocked and running when I have to visit some ****hole like Los Angeles or Compton California.
2. If I have firearms in the truck, it would be irresponsible to leave the truck running and or unlocked even in Wyoming. Better to turn off the engine and lock the doors every time than forget you have loaded firearms in the truck because the chances of not having loaded firearms in your truck in Wyoming are zero.
3. I hate carrying keys. I have an XL. I also have a locking cap cap. The cas cap key is on the same ring as my ignition and camper shell keys. I'm not going to carry an extra key ring or extra ignition key, so I have to remove the ignition key to refill and get the fuel additive out of the bed.
#26
07-12-2011, 11:34 PM
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That's a pretty subjective comment. Maybe I don't have the long run offs that highways have out in the middle of the country or something because when I pull off of the highway around here albeit towing or plowing, the egts can be smoking hot. I guess we need a engineer to chime in on what is a safe temp for the turbo and bearings to be before shutting off. But how could it make more sense to shut the truck off at let's say 500f pre turbo egt vs around 300f? I would think the slower your heat cycles are the longer the materials will last.
#27
07-12-2011, 11:36 PM
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I live in Wyoming. I turn my engine off and lock the doors for three reasons.
1. The risk of theft in Wyoming is pretty low. I have friends who haven't locked their cars or homes in over 20 years. Their homes remain open even during vacations. But, I cannot afford to develop the habit of leaving my truck unlocked and/or running when I step away from it simply because I don't want to leave it unlocked and running when I have to visit some ****hole like Los Angeles or Compton California.
2. If I have firearms in the truck, it would be irresponsible to leave the truck running and or unlocked even in Wyoming. Better to turn off the engine and lock the doors every time than forget you have loaded firearms in the truck because the chances of not having loaded firearms in your truck in Wyoming are zero.
3. I hate carrying keys. I have an XL. I also have a locking cap cap. The cas cap key is on the same ring as my ignition and camper shell keys. I'm not going to carry an extra key ring or extra ignition key, so I have to remove the ignition key to refill and get the fuel additive out of the bed.
1. The risk of theft in Wyoming is pretty low. I have friends who haven't locked their cars or homes in over 20 years. Their homes remain open even during vacations. But, I cannot afford to develop the habit of leaving my truck unlocked and/or running when I step away from it simply because I don't want to leave it unlocked and running when I have to visit some ****hole like Los Angeles or Compton California.
2. If I have firearms in the truck, it would be irresponsible to leave the truck running and or unlocked even in Wyoming. Better to turn off the engine and lock the doors every time than forget you have loaded firearms in the truck because the chances of not having loaded firearms in your truck in Wyoming are zero.
3. I hate carrying keys. I have an XL. I also have a locking cap cap. The cas cap key is on the same ring as my ignition and camper shell keys. I'm not going to carry an extra key ring or extra ignition key, so I have to remove the ignition key to refill and get the fuel additive out of the bed.
#28
07-12-2011, 11:42 PM
The Kel tec is always in my Uncle Mike's pocket holster. The Glock or Kahr is on my hip. The AR, Thompson, SKS, AK or whatever stays in the cab. Carrying a rifle into a convenience store may cause a California tourist to go into cardiac arrest. Open carrying a pistol causes them to call 911 and the dispatcher tells them, "Welcome to Wyoming!"
#29
07-12-2011, 11:49 PM
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#30
07-12-2011, 11:53 PM
What I usually do on a trip home, or back to school (and need to get gas) is this.
I'll pull into the station, sorta out of the way, leave it idling, lock the doors (I have 2 keys on me, and another WELL HIDDEN on the truck), and go in to pay. When I come out, I unlock it, pull up to the pump, kill it, and then fuel up. I'm a firm believer in letting an engine cool down a minute or two before shutdown, regardless of size, fuel type, or load.
I'll pull into the station, sorta out of the way, leave it idling, lock the doors (I have 2 keys on me, and another WELL HIDDEN on the truck), and go in to pay. When I come out, I unlock it, pull up to the pump, kill it, and then fuel up. I'm a firm believer in letting an engine cool down a minute or two before shutdown, regardless of size, fuel type, or load.