Hi Guys

I am starting to mod my 04' F250, so far I have straight piped my original exhaust, but am considering getting a 38R from Clay at Riffraff.

My questions are
1. Will my straight piped original exhaust flow enough for the 38R
2. If I ordered a down pipe or full exhaust (4 inch) from Clay, will it fit my truck or does it need to be modified.

On a different note, do you think the 38R will give better or worse fuel economy than stock (both with a chip of course).

Thanks guys and hopefully will see you in Sydney for Clays visit.

Kramer

 

Hi Kramer,

I've seen an F250 with a 38R and standard exhaust (Rod's truck) at our Shannon's GTG. Rod did have an issue with high EGTs though - so it definitely can be done, but keep your eye on the pyro gauge (and install one if you haven't already) when the turbo boost spools up.

On the 4" exhaust front, the US exhaust will fit - but from what I've heard it is not a DIY job to fit it though. The clearance on the downpipe is different because of the RHD steering column and some mods are required to the new 4" downpipe - sadly in the form of some well placed dents I think. Also I've read some forum reports of the hangers being in slightly different spots - but nothing a good exhaust shop can't quickly rectify.

My plan is to order the 38R and a 4" turbo back stainless system. I'll fit the turbo myself, then take the truck to a specialist exhaust shop to get the new exhaust fitted.

Now I just got to save up the reddies to make it happen...

Finally fuel economy - in theory hardly any change. If fact I'd be pretty sure you'll get worse fuel economy - mainly cause every now and then you'll use all that extra boost!

 

Thanks for your advice Simon

I have quite a few mods in the post as we speak.
I am hoping to install all of them in one go, but time will tell.

I was speaking to Clay and he said that ChunderDownUnder might of fitted a down pipe to his truck, so hopefully Brian can chime in with some advice as well.

Many thanks

 

The post is painfully slow at the moment. I think the whole of Australia is ordering internet specials.
Yes I was talking to Brian at the GTG about his new system. I'm still going to get a 4" turbo back muffler deleted one - but I know not to waste my time trying to fit it myself and be in a situation where I have to actually put the old exhaust back on in order to take the truck to an exhaust place to modify the new exhaust to get it to fit!

 

As Simon mentioned - it can be fitted, with not too much difficulty.

Regarding milage, as he mentioned, it should stay the same, but usually you might have your foot in it a little more, which seems to have a detrimental affect
Injectors are typically the big thing that will drop your mileage.

 

Thanks Adrian
Which injectors, stage 1 single shot injectors?

Would these injectors work best with the stock or 38R turbo, meaning what boost levels would give the best economy?

Thanks

 

Sorry Adrian

I just read your post again.
You are saying that injectors will give you worse economy?

 

Yeah - thats what I am saying. The turbo by itself shouldn't do a great deal to changing your fuel mileage.Stage 1's shouldn't affect your economy greatly (i.e. it might add an additional 1l per 100km or so), but start getting larger injectors they will.


The turbo shouldn't impact economy really at all.
To get the best of the 38R, injectors will definitely help though.

 

I compromised and fitted a 3.5" down pipe you can get the 4" in you need a porta power and you have to push the little footrest in on the floor from underneath to get clearence takes a bit of work. Rocket sports truck in Victoria fits them also Beaudesert exhaust in Qld. Has their own system very good work. I had to pump my floor to get the 3.5" in also you can call me on 0429178204 if you have any questions

 

Thanks Geoff

I will give you a call in a couple of days for some advise.

 

G'day Kramer,

There is another way to look at this Turbo/Exhaust/EGTs.
I done a lot of research into exactly what your proposing to do and found the following.

A lot of the state side fellas take the practical view that it is not the 3" OEM piping that is the problem causing high EGTs under load, it is the staggered & baffled OEM Muffler box. Simply straight piping it (I believe you've done that) or lopping out the staggered OEM box and fitting in a straight through muffler (they call it the BTM Mod (Big Truck Muffler)) is sufficient enough of a fix. And a hell of a lot less expense and stuffin' around.
The point is that the Turbine outlet is 2 1/2" and the increase in the bore of the OEM downpipe is more than enough to get the gasses away. It's when it hits the staggered and baffled box that the build up commences. Add that to the extra length of the tail pipe and those addition frictional forces only add to the problem.
My understanding is that a 'Normally Aspirated' (non turbo) diesel won't operate efficiently without a muffler to supply the back pressure needed for low down torque/grunt. However it is this action of squeezing (if you like) of the exhaust gasses out of the turbo outlet that supplies the back pressure on turbo diesels.
So unless you want to drag race ya 7.3, then big bore piping is not going to give a lot in my view.
I tracked down the closest straight through muffler to the BTM they use in states I could find here in Aust, lopped out the OEM box and ditched the tail pipe and dumped it out just in front of the rear tyre.
My GCM is almost never less than 7T and I pull in all terrain and haven't had a EGT problem at all.
Just another take on this for ya mate.

Cheers,
Reg
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."<O</O
---------------------------
Aussie spec Brazilian built 2005 (US 2003) F-250 Superduty 4x4 7.3Ltr Powerstroke: PHP FU2 6 Pos’n Chip, 6 x ISSPRO Promax Guages, AIS Intake, Zoodad, Cowl Hood, AIH Delete, DIY CCV, BTM muffler, MBRP 4” Black Tip, RiffRaff FRx,HPx,OCR, JWVB, ARB Air Lockers Front & Rear, V10 Tranny cooler in series with Stock Tranny cooler, Deep Tranny Pan, ARB Bull Bar, Edge Evo (for PIDs & Codes only), Long Range Fuel Tank, VMS in Dash GPS Street & Off Road Nav, Toyo OPAT AT 305 70R 16”on 10” Rims, Moog Greasable Ball Joints, Tough Dog Steering Stabiliser, HD Suspension for GVWR (GVM) Upgrade to 5,000Kg.

 

Im the worse person to ask bruva, cause Im a meathead when it comes to big bore engines. The bigger the better as far as Im concerned. Big turbo, Big sticks, Big exhaust, Big HP. lol.

The 38R is a wicked turbo. Uber quick spool (that sucker will hit 35psi in blink). No smoke and a nasty sound. And for the price Im thinking of getting a heap sent over and marking the hell up on em (like they all do here) and flogging em off.
The 4" is quite do able, dont get put off by the nae sayers. I cant quote you any real figures but just have a read through the forums. All the USA bruva's run with it and thats not just by co-incidence. The bigger the exhaust the quicker its gunna get it out. Now the cheapest I could find out here was $1600 and that was with a 3.5" downpipe. Clay has the stainless steel for $500 but if I was to buy one again I would just go for the ally one. With the shinny tip
Riffraff Diesel: MBRP 4" Turbo Back Aluminized. We dont have the rust issue that the yanks do with all that salt they throw on their roads.
Another say $250 for shipping then take it to any respectable exhaust shop and get em to fit ( no port a power here m8). Its cost me $400 for fitting. Just over $1000 and you are done. If anything you will luv the note.
I would have to say that the 38R will reduce your fuel economy. Cause all Im doing now is flogging it so I can watch that boost needle jump up. Lol. Seriously I havent noticed any difference and I log my mileage every fill up.
Thats my take on it m8

 

Thanks Reg (Diesel Submariner) and Brian (ChunderDownUnder) for your input and opinions.
Currently I have put in a straight pipe and am waiting for my 6637 kit to arrive. Hopefully this will help with making the engine breath better.

Reg, I noticed in your signature that you have upgraded your GVM to 5000kg, is this correct and how did you do it. I am not sure if I can do this in QLD. My truck empty weighs 3660, that is no tools or anything. I have a very solid steel tray on it, courtesy of the previous owner, so if I can increase my GVM then that would be great.

Thanks guys

Jason

 

Another US trick is just to remove the stock muffler and replace it with a pipe. Apparently the turbo muffles the exhaust sufficiently. I'd be interested in doing this mod and presume if I took my truck to an exhaust shop they'd be able to make me up a 'muffler delete' pipe for a reasonable price.
Has anyone done this in Oz? If so, is the noise output still socially, and legally, acceptable? I'd hate to upset the neighbours!

 

G'day again Jason,

I'm a born and bred Queenslander (Imbil) but have lived in SA for 20+ years now. There is not a lot wrong with QLD, buuut.. I believe the Motor Transport mob are a bit inflexible when it comes to this sort of thing as opposed to the more forgiving rules in SA.
I too researched this subject extensively and found the fellas from up there in QLD where getting the big run around and found getting a GVM Upgrade a difficult process. And even if they did it was a marginal gain.
A lot of F-Truck owners on the Bushtracker Caravan site have suffered the pain of going through this process in QLD/NSW/WA etc; so if you can get on there you will see how some of them have waded through it all.

Now as for lil ole' me.
It was a relatively easy process to do under the SA rules. I basically wanted only to go for a moderate increase from the Crew Cab's 4,200kg GVM to 4,500kg. But I was only asking for the 'Complience Plate' to be stamped 4,495kg to keep the cheaper rego and so as the missus could continue to drive it on a normal licence (under 4,500kg).
I got it ready for inspection by an approved auto engineer by doing the following;
1. Fitting a set of Old Man Emu (OME) heavy duty load carrying rear springs. This set the **** end at around the same height as the F350s with the 4" block instead of the F250's 2" block. This gave the suspension travel required to carry a heavier load and fitted OME Nitrocharger Shocks.
2. Took the front 2 x leaves off and had then re-set at a higher arch and added a leaf for both beefing up and to level her out.
3. Fitted a set of Dual Tower shock mounts and fitted OME Nitrochargers.
4. Fitted higher rated tyres than 265 75R 16 'E'. However this was not a necessary step as the same tyres are rated for the F350s

They crawled all over it, made calculations took down serial numbers, vanish off to computers etc and said 'We can rate this to 5,000kg. I hummed ... just for a for a nano second mind...and said 'Righto!.
So on went the complience plate stating GVM at 5,000kg and explaining the higher rated suspension etc.
Off to the motor registry with the paperwork and I get a new rego sticker stating same 'now proudly display on my windscreen lol
Downside...pay extra here sir

The thing is that there is only two notable differences between an F250 and a Single Rear Wheel (SRW) drive F350.
1. The F350 has a 4" block under the rear spring set as opposed to the 2" block under the F250. The actual spring sets are the same.
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 381pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=508><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 88pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4278" width=117><COL style="WIDTH: 83pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4059" width=111><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=2 width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 66pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 3218" width=88><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 25.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=34><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 25.5pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 height=34 width=64>



F250


F350 (SRW)





</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 88pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 width=117><TABLE style="WIDTH: 381pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=508><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 88pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4278" width=117><COL style="WIDTH: 83pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4059" width=111><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=2 width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 66pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 3218" width=88><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 61.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=82><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 61.5pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 height=82 width=64>GCM</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 88pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 width=117>Front Springs (Max)</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 83pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 width=111>Rear Springs (Max)</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 width=64>Front Axle Rating</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 width=64>Rear Axle Rating</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 66pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl68 width=88>Brakes-Front/Rear</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 25.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=34><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 25.5pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 height=34 width=64>9,072kg</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 88pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=117>4,400lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 83pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=111>6,084lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=64>5,200lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=64>6,830lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 66pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=88>13.03"/12.83"</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 25.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=34><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 25.5pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl65 height=34 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 88pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=117></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 83pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=111></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 66pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl66 width=88></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=17>9,072kg</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8">5,200lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl67>6,830lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8">5,200lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8">6,830lbs</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8">13.03"/12.83"</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8"></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8"></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8"></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8"></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 83pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 width=111></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 66pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl63 width=88></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
2. Badges (one says F250 the other say F350)

Oh, and of course the higher rego

Anyway home I get. Book the missus in for a truck licence course. Off she goes and gets her licence.

Why did I do it...you ask

Well with the F250 Crew Cabs there is not a lot of GVM left once you start adding 'Stuff'. Bull Bar, Kymar Rear Wheel Carrier, 4,500kg rated towing hitch, Heavy mother of a Carryboy Canopy, roof rack, Longrange fuel tanks full, spare gear, tools, camping gear, fridge, esky full of ice & ****, yours and ya missus **** etc. Then you want to put that 10 to 12% tongue weight of the Rough Road caravan into the mix; etc; etc.
Doing a GVM upgrade will in no way increase the GCM of 9,072kg because the drive train has not changed and most importantly the brakes are the same. I did it because I wanted a peace of mind that the scalies would not pinch me (they are getting hotter on this GVM/GCM now days).

Besides I've always wanted an F350, so I reckon I got one now.
I've got the 'bragging rights' so I exercised them and re-badged her as an F350

So there ya have it mate,

Cheers,
Reg
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by an illogical and irrational minority, who hold forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick a turd up by the clean end"

---------------------------
Aussie spec Brazilian built 2005 (US 2003) F-250 Superduty 4x4 7.3Ltr Powerstroke: PHP FU2 6 Pos’n Chip, 6 x ISSPRO Promax Guages, AIS Intake, Zoodad, Cowl Hood, AIH Delete, DIY CCV, BTM muffler, MBRP 4” Black Tip, RiffRaff FRx,HPx,OCR, JWVB, ARB Air Lockers Front & Rear, V10 Tranny cooler in series with Stock Tranny cooler, Deep Tranny Pan, ARB Bull Bar, Edge Evo (for PIDs & Codes only), Long Range Fuel Tank, VMS in Dash GPS Street & Off Road Nav, Toyo OPAT AT 305 70R 16”on 10” Rims, Moog Greasable Ball Joints, Tough Dog Steering Stabiliser, HD Suspension for GVWR (GVM) Upgrade to 5,000Kg.