With the cam I am using, lift/duration: 0.448/270 intake - 0.472/280 exhaust, and with stock ratio, 1.6:1, roller rockers I do not have to modify.

I have to replace the pistons though because a couple of the forged pistons in it from 25 or so yrs ago were thrashed from a small nut or bolt getting into the intake. The tops of them looked pretty bad. I am going back with hyper-eutectic flat topped pistons to keep the compression near stock.

In this application, forged pistons are overkill for a street rod that will not regularly see the race track. With no turbo or NOS they should be just fine.

 

I'm going to assume you know the basics and skip headgaskets etc..,

Head bolts, yes! stock are TTY.

Rockers,probably. Most are going to require stud mounted rockers. If you limit to stock style pedestal rockers your greatly limiting your choice in heads. If you stay pedestal you'll prob need shims to set it up right.

Pushrods probably, you need to measure to set-up proper valvetrain geometry and then measure the pushrod needed. If you do it any other way your guessing and just cause it runs and doesn't make horrible noises doesn't mean you have it right.

These are just Suggestions:

1. You already tore it apart this far and you spent a lot of money on heads spend a little more get a cam that matches the combination to maximize those heads. The 84 302 cam isn't doing you favors.

2. Intake manifold, I'm going to assume you have or are going with something aftermarket to match the heads.

3. Get name brand heads unless your very experienced and have a good relationship with a machine shop you trust. It'a insurance from disappointment and headaches.

4. Spend your money wisely, you don't have to buy the best of everything to be successful and have a ripping motor but be smart. There are some places you can save money and some places you just have to bite the bullet and spend.

 

Two thoughts that may or may not have been covered. First you'll probably need head bolt spacers and second, if you use a high lift cam, higher ratio rockers or bigger valves, you risk the chance of piston/valve interference.

 

Hey Rich,
<O</O

I'm doing the same thing you are with a carbureted 5.0 and wanting around 350 HP too.

From what I’ve been reading, you don’t get 350 HP from a 302/5.0 without big changes to the heads (amongst other things such as cam, intake, rockers and headers).

There are some good articles on the comparison of heads and what you can get from various combinations.

If you want to stick with cast, the GT40 heads (not GT40p) are the ticket. I’ve found this chart on a web site listing the years/vehicles used for donors:



This article talks about the gains of GT40 and GT40p over stock – which is about 25 HP

GT-40P Heads - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine
<O</O
<O</O

There are several good articles on the web regarding various combinations tried on a dyno to get numbers.

This is a good one where they took a stock engine with E7TE heads, checked it and then slapped some high flowing heads, Etc:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/index.html<O</O
<O</O


Bolt on parts – Dyno results:

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-25409.html


Do Google searches of 302/5.0 heads, 302/5.0 horsepower gain and such.

There’s a wealth of info out there on these builds. I see Mustang and Bronco people really into these engines and some auto magazines have done several tech articles on the subject.

Good Luck! Let us know how you go.

I’m leaning 5.0 roller, e303 cam, all internals stock (except cam) Alum, large valve heads, Edlebrock performer intake and carb (600 or 650 cfm) – maybe 1.7 ratio rockers, Mustang shorty headers. I think this would get me about 350 (I think).

Joe

 

#1) Where are ya located? Go in and add this info to your user Control
Panel...you never know when help is right around the corner...

#2) Do ya really need "NEW" heads?...an old friend...(God rest his sole)...
...told me a long time ago...

"Nuthin' wrong with a used part...
1) ya already know it works(ed)... and...
2) somebody else already went thru the breakin process for ya......

There are some really great (SERIOUS) racing sites around and these
dudes go thru cylinder heads, carb's, rear-ends, and other assemblies
like some of "us" go thru socks...if ya want...there is one I smurf around
once in a while that I know for a fact that a bunch of Livernois BoyZ hang
out on...probably a few Roush dudes also...I dunna...just what I hear....

Here is a really good site for parts (or chassis) but now ya gotta register
for a free account to view the & post in the forums...no big deal...
Register at Motown Muscle

...KOOL!...another Ford-inna-Ford...Right On......and this is from a
Bow-Tie dude......

I've seen a LOT of those articles...here is something to think about...did
you notice how much advertising the companies had in the mag. who
recieved high markings for thier performance heads?...

I'm sure if I spent enough $$$ advertising "something" in in that rag I
could crank out a few sets of SBF "super-street heads" the greatest thing
sense swirl-cut valves.......

Car Show season is here now...THAT is a great place to get info first hand
from hot rodders......I don't know one GearHead that won't go on for
ever telling ya "almost" all the secrets about his (or her) ride...

But seriously...

WHAT are you gonna use this truck for?
C6...heavy...but it'll take everything your gonna thow at it...
Carb'd...?...Size matterZ...how many...

I'm "hoping" to end up with a SBF stroker in our '56 when it's all done &
said....IF it's ever done...and I'd LOVE to skore a set of killa HOT cast
iron heads from...I dunno...Dart, RHS, or any of the few others...

OH YEA ...both of the motors in our garage ('69 302/'83 GT 5.0) are flat tappet motors...

To quote the great Joe Sherman from another message board;

"hyd roller is one step up from...
...a hyd flat tappet,
...then a solid flat tappet,
...and finnally , a solid roller !
......... Hyd rollers are for girls"
Solid flat tappet VS solid roller - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum

Check out post #13 in the above link...and remember...
not only the heads, but cam, ignition, spark, ...well...you get the idea....


Same questions everyine asked me;
What do you want this truck to DO...?...hhhmmmmm......
(how fast, loud, low, flashy, exotic, rare(parts-wise)...etc...

...do you have a budget?......
(they ALL start out as a "budget" build...well...most do anyway...)


The RooSter will not be seeing any "official" 1320-time and so far all
my engine math has proven to be correct with respect to heat transfer
for a small (58cc) chamber street head...with larger valves & such...

Here's a thought...is anybody running BEEHIVE springs in a street-type
cylinder head?.....I cannot find anybody to "personally" speak to about the
performance of this type of spring in an enviroment without a bazillion pounds of spring pressure.....

Sorry for the ramble......I gotta go take a nap...

-

 

Wow guys thanks for all the great information. I'm from Waterford, Mi and it use to show up in my profile but went away. I went in and added it back and saved it and it is showing up again.

I have gotten some real good info on the GT40/GT40P heads so I'm considering that as an option as well. One individual thought I might be able to run the roller cam heads on a flat tappet cam by swapping the valve springs to the lower tension ones. Not sure if that is feasible or not.


I don't plan on racing the truck but want to smoke the tires when I get a wild hair. I understand many things factor in including gear ratio but wanted to start with something fairly stout in the 325-350 range.


I have a fresh short block with stock crank and pistons. Also have an Eldebrock Street Performer aluminum intake and plan to feed it with a yet to be purchased 600-650cfm carb.

I would like to finish the engine up with the new cam/head configuration for under a grand so I'm coming to the conclusion aluminum are probably off the table unless a used set jumps in my lap.


Hope this helps you all better understand where I'm at and where I want to get to.


Thanks again for all the info. I am new to SBFs and this is very helpful.

Rich

 

Very true just remember a deal on used heads can easily turn into I could of bought just bought the same set new if there is any issues with them when you think about what a good machine shop makes per hour. A set can look visibly fine but unless you are a machinist with measuring tools your buying blind. I have no problem with used parts and have plenty but people need to recognize the serious risk when buying used heads and price them accordingly to protect themselves.

Joe Sherman has an awesome knowledge and is a very funny guy but I think you took his comparison out of context. He was referring to full on race motors and nothing else which is the world Joe lives in. In the same thread he goes back to say:

"When the hyd rollers came along about 15 or 20 years ago, I did a test on hyd flatt to same duration hyd roller. I cant remember the exact duration , but like 240 at 050- the roller was only 7 or 8 HP better at a cost of 600 dollars more-- Not a good deal. Much later i have run the more modern Comp Cams grinds, and the same duration is worth 20 to 25 more than the flat lifter with the same duration- The solid lifters, flat or roller , do not out perform the hyd very much untill you rev up past 6000 RPM."


Lots of SBF guys are Ed Curtis of FTI champions this. Also that is pretty standard fair for the GM LS engine guys along with the newer HEMIS.

 

Taboo...I know...

I am beyond happy with my '65 castings, and I scored the whole top half for less than a grand after getting the valve job and port job done, which included a new Weiand intake, used carb and kit. I am extremely happy with the performance offered at the cost I spent. I know most people drive into you that the only option is aluminum heads for performance and just about everyone (aside from old timers) shys away from early castings for a hot street build, but if you can get a set that have been worked over fresh off the shelf for less than a set of aluminum heads run, it may be worth looking into. Aluminum heads have been tested and produce more HP than any FoMoCo casting offered, plain and simple, and I am not saying otherwise. What I am saying is if you are on a shoestring budget you can work stock castings to put out some decent power.

I may be in the neighborhood of 320-350HP...never pulled it on a dyno so I have no clue honestly.

Also...remember that starting in '64, Ford and Mercury ran the 289 with 289 small chamber heads in the B/Fx class...a little work and some know how and you can put some respectable numbers out. It all depends on what you do.

 

The stock GT40/GT40P heads that are coming off Explorers/Mountaineers have springs that are not really even strong enough for a stock 5.0 Mustang roller cam. I think you'll find many aftermarket hyd. flat tappet cams will not have an issue and some may need stronger than the stock springs.

fwhp I could see you getting there. rwhp is doubtful

GT40/P 302 roller cam combos seem to be in the 250-300rwhp range for the most part.

I have an 87 Mustang GT with a cammed and worked GT40/Explorer engine and it put down 292rwhp with it's old rich tune. This is at the higher end of the scale and I will admit I didn't just slap a cam in it and go. I had the whole thing apart and did every tip and trick I know. While I have had way more powerful engine combos this one never fails to make me smile and you def won't be ashamed of the performance you get out of it even in the lower range of the average.

Used would be your only shot in that price range and that's if they end up needing zero work.