Great post, I think that is the best description of how to look at these trucks that I've read yet. These are high performance machines capable of amazing power and torque and with that comes a high repair bill. I might eat my words if my engine blows up but I still love my truck and what it does and won't be selling it any time soon.

 

I tend to keep quiet about this in the 6.4L forum, but much of what you seem to be upset about has been improved in the new 6.7L engine. I routinely see 19 MPGs for my rural highway driving and have on occasion seen as high as 21. This with 9,400 miles on the odometer.

Remember that DPF technology was in it's infancy when the 6.4L was designed. Just like the emissions compliant gas engines in the 70s, it took awhile to get sorted out. I believe things are improving as time goes on, at least until the EPA whacks us again.

 

Tom, I hope youre right. I had a 6.0 that Ford had to buy back because it was in the shop more than my driveway. I debated whether to get the 6.4 or the V10 back then but I found almost nothing bad on these forums about the 6.4 other than mpg (but just like today, 1 guy claims 7 another claims 25) so I took the plunge because I loved both my 7.3's and even my first 6.0.

Do I still prefer a diesel? yes!

But to the points made in this thread these engines are sophisticated, expensive, far from bullet proof, and even the techs tell you not to own one out of warranty. At 18k miles I am on my 2nd DPF, still have black pipes, get 9-12 mpg, and an oil leak bad enough to drip on my driveway. I have been to 2 different dealers that shrug their shoulders and scratch their heads because there are no codes. How confident should I be that this truck will hit 210,000 miles like the one in the OP?

Sorry guys, Im not here to bash the 6.4, I am just disappointed in the current condition and scared about this trucks future problems. I plan to try a 3rd dealer to fix this rig before I start taking trade in offers so keep your fingers crossed for me.

 

Consider them crossed. You've always been very knowledgable and a great guy to deal with on here but I fully understand your worries and would prob feel the exact same way if I had similar experiences. Best of luck and I hope you get it all sorted out and the truck can restore some of your faith in Ford diesels.

 

Yeah, I hope that the third dealer is better as well.

 

I certainly agree that the technology is still evolving. Certainly there was an absolutely huge change in technology between the 7.3 and 6.0 engines and as we all know, the 6.0 had plenty of growing pains. The 6.4 resolved the issues that plagued the 6.0, but it still has it's share of issues, though the issues are less common than with the 6.0.

The 6.7 likely improves on some of the issues with the 6.4, however since the entire engine is a new design and deviates from established diesel engine design in some critical areas, it is a concern to me and I consider it a leap similar to the 7.3 to 6.0 change.

I don't think I'd consider purchasing a 6.7 though the reports so far seem to indicate it's doing ok. I'd be more likely to consider the successor to the 6.7 if it is an evolutionary design.

The bottom line is that I'm happy with my 6.4, it gets 27% better MPG than my other truck and costs less per mile to operate. More importantly, I understand the 6.4, having read the service manual and every other bit of information available on the engine. I do my own maintenance on the severe duty schedule and I am aware of the potential problem areas and monitor them carefully.

This is not a truck for people who think about doing an oil change when the MIL light comes on, nor is any diesel truck.

 

I don't want to start a huge war here, but I'd like to mention something.

This is just what i've noticed about diesels lately.

It sorta reminds me of the 6.0 that everyone was saying they were crap, yet I was consistently running into lots of guys with 03's and 04's with huge mileage and next to zero issues. These were guys towing and using the truck as intended.

It seemed like everyone with all kinds of problems either used it as a grocery getter, had a tuner, or I can think of a guy that only used it once a year to tow a camper and every time he pulled it out something was siezed up.

I'm seeing the same thing with these newer trucks, people that use them for real work like long haul and hot shots are getting huge miles on them while kids in town are driving to work or school, 300 hp tuner, and blowing the turbo calling it a pile of crap.

I just saw a 6.4 the other day that had 420,000 km's on it, and it still runs like brand new. It was a 20ft cube truck, left stock from day 1, hauling a lot more probably than the average person does.

Out of any of these newer trucks, I think the main problems for failure are :

1. This truck is designed for work, not grocery store runs & sunday driving.

2. Dirty / sub-optimal fuel seems to stop any new diesel in its tracks.

3. Emission systems are hard on the engine, and useless IMHO, however there are plenty of high mileage 6.4's around with the stock exhaust, so you can't blame 100% of every problem on that, maybe you or I shoulda bought a gas truck if we didn't really NEED a diesel as much as we WANTED a diesel.

 

No offense but nothing will ever convince me that a truck that is worked hard and beat to hell will outrun one that is cared for and babied. Its a machine. The harder it works the faster parts wear down. I understand there are some things running it hard will help with, such as cleaning buildup out of turbo veins, allowing DPF to complete regen, etc. But if you still do those things and baby the truck at the same time, I dont see how it will die before one that has worked its whole life. There are alot of people in my area who buy diesels for no reason other than the fact that they want one (myself included) and none of them that I know have had major issues, even with 6.0s, except for the people I know who put tuners on them.

 

For the most part I agree with this. But "babying" a modern diesel is a different thing than most gassers.

Taking good care of these engines means getting them good and warm most of the times they are driven and not allowed to go on numerous short trips and then shut down. Running it consistently without allowing it to get up to temp is asking for trouble. This is true with any engine, but much more common on these because of the lengthy warmup time.

Also, taking good care of these involves some time at WOT. Constantly babying the throttle without ever giving it enough fuel to blow out the turbo and EGR systems can also cause problems.

If these two things are done I don't think it much matters how it's driven for the other 95% of the time.

 

One nice thing about the newer diesels is the lower cylinder pressures.

This alone would extend the engine life versus the old designs, if everything else were equal.

What I hate the most about these new trucks is that they rely on super clean fuel, yet whoever designed the fuel system must have never seen where some of these trucks get filled from.

Picture an oil drilling land rig, giant steel fuel tank, and guys are filling their trucks from it. every shift someone is sticking a giant wood measuring stick into the tank covered in snow or rain, mud, wiped off roughly by a greasy glove that gets left up there.

This fuel is circulated around the rig through hoses which all have quick couplers. dirt is easily entering the fuel from many places.

This is an example of 1 worksite where diesels are popular, i'm sure many other scenarios spell the same problem.

The extent that this fuel needs to be clean is crazy, which is fine if your hauling an rv and have all day to fill up and make sure you dont get any dust in the tank.

If my fuel cap touches the side of the dirty truck i make sure to clean it off.

They should have a bigger filter with better filtration, pre fuel pump.

and it should be easy to change.

 

Mine does... it will regen for a long time in park...

 

SOLUTION: AirDog! Considering that the injectors on these trucks cost a mint, and I think the entire fuel system from tank to injectors is something like $12K+ to replace, the AirDog is extremely cheap insurance. I just installed their 150GPH/10PSI fixed model on my buddy's '08 F350 and it's simply the best possible insurance you can have for our truck's fuel system/injectors, which seem to be typically sensitive as common-rail diesels are. IDP has them on sale right now, and I'm sure if you check with your favorite supporting vendor they can likewise help you out. Figure around $600-$700+ for the unit itself (I'm personally gonna run the 165GPH/10PSI fixed model) and about a half-day install with simple hand tools. Massive peace of mind for relatively short money (in the big scheme of things)...

Don't forget your official Ford Fuel Treatment either! Adds some lubricity to ULSD which has significantly lower lube qualities than old school diesel...

 

"I tend to keep quiet about this in the 6.4L forum, but much of what you seem to be upset about has been improved in the new 6.7L engine. I routinely see 19 MPGs for my rural highway driving and have on occasion seen as high as 21. This with 9,400 miles on the odometer."

Doing everything I can to get good mileage (Using fuel additives, tonneau cover, light foot, etc.) my 2010 F250 2WD with 3.55 rear gets very similar mileage. On a recent 300 mile trip (about 30% rural highway with small towns and stop lights the other 70% interstate). My truck got over 20 MPG (hand calculated). That is with 9500 on the odometer.

 

That's impressive! I've heard that the later models got slightly better MPGs than the '08s, and you seem to demonstrate that.

For comparison, my '08 with 3.73s got roughly 15-16 MPG during the exact same driving conditions I have now. Rural highway, ~60 MPH cruising speed, very little stop-and-go. Nearly ideal for high MPGs. I noticed at least a 20% increase in MPGs over my last truck, it sounds like it might not be as significant with yours.

Glad to hear that you're getting great fuel economy! Lots of people are disappointed about that.

 

For sure water or dirt in the fuel can wreck the very expensive fuel systems. I carry a clear plastic container which I use to check fuel, as I fill the tank I draw a sample. I guess if I find a problem I'll call someone to suck out my tank, I sure won't drive with it. Anyway, I went and looked at those filters. They would be a nice upgrade to my system. web sight didn't tell me much. I guess it mounts on the frame before the stock horizontal filter. Or does it replace the ford filter? Does it come with enough hose and connectors to complete installation. I assume the filters require changing, where do you get them? Thanks for your help.