First tow experience
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2011
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First tow experience
Finally 1000 miles on it and time to tow. I have a dually crew-cab 4x4 Lariat with 3.73's. I tow a 18000 lb Mobile Suite 5th wheel. The pin weight is 4050 lbs. I averaged 11mph at 62 with insignificant winds. With a 25-30 mph wind coming into the front right corner I was at 8.6 mpg at 62, at 55 I was at 9.9 with the same wind. I was surprised with this stiff wind that I did not experience any down shifting with the hills, I pull through this stretch on a regular basis, previously with a 6.7 Cummins and I encountered significant down shifting with the Ram...love the power on this Ford.. The integrated brake control is exceptional. The "engine brake" is, in my opinion, not worth advertising as an application. There was no indication that the turbo was part of the process. The same results can be had by simply down-shifting in the manual mode and with the tow capacity that these trucks have it is a serious over-sight on Fords part to deliver such an inadequate system. I did experience a noticeable vibration when accelerating from 5-12mph. I'm hoping this was due to the truck hunched down and will be installing bags to keep it more level. All in all I was very pleased with it.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
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Proper operation of the exhaust brake has been discussed here ad nauseum. Tow/haul mode must be turned on for the system to work. The EB is totally integrated with the tow/haul mode and the transmission. It is switched on with a tap on the brake pedal. It does have a lower speed threshold engagement requirement than the GM or Dodge. No, it is not as strong as your old Dodge but in my experience it works well. YMMV
Regards
Regards
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Junior User
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Yes it has been discussed a great deal. This was just my experience. If you put the truck in manual mode it turns off the tow-haul mode however you get the same benefits in engine braking by manually down-shifting so it would seem the "engine brake" is simply a method of the transmission down-shifting for you but not really applying any add'l benefit via the turbo etc. A very poorly designed application. Great truck, just disappointed Ford dropped the ball in this specific arena.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 11
From: Greenwood, SC
I hope the 11mpg was a thumbs up for you. An '08 or newer diesel won't do any better than that, no matter who makes it. It's good that you noted the winds with the 8.6, we fight wind more than we do weight in my opinion.
The vibration you speak of is something I always get, had it on my '08 and I can make the '11 do it. For me it happens when I accelerate hard with a lot of weight in tow. I think the torque converters really bite hard with all that torque being applied. Folks also mention axle wrap and wheel/tire scrubbing. All of these are common sense explanation to that vibration.
1st or 2nd gear, max torque applied, getting lots of weight in motion, severe stress on the driveline. I really don't think it's anything more than that.
Glad you like yours. I really like mine too. And I agree on the "exhaust brake". It does do something but descending a hill in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm and still having to touch the brakes is not necessarily a noteworthy system. If you look at the turbo boost psi, you'll see about 5psi at the most. I'd like to hear if you see more than that.
The vibration you speak of is something I always get, had it on my '08 and I can make the '11 do it. For me it happens when I accelerate hard with a lot of weight in tow. I think the torque converters really bite hard with all that torque being applied. Folks also mention axle wrap and wheel/tire scrubbing. All of these are common sense explanation to that vibration.
1st or 2nd gear, max torque applied, getting lots of weight in motion, severe stress on the driveline. I really don't think it's anything more than that.
Glad you like yours. I really like mine too. And I agree on the "exhaust brake". It does do something but descending a hill in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm and still having to touch the brakes is not necessarily a noteworthy system. If you look at the turbo boost psi, you'll see about 5psi at the most. I'd like to hear if you see more than that.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 585
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I have a similar setup with my 2006 F-350 and 18K Nuwa HitchHiker and had the same problem with the low speed vibration. I installed Firestone Ride-rites to raise the rear end back to level under load and eliminated the problem. I firmly believe the squat under load changes the driveline geometry enough that it causes the vibration problem.
How much does your truck squat under the 4000 lb pin weight? I'm considering a new F-450, but before I buy, I'll take a test drive to the campground and set my trailer down on the truck to see how much squat I get so I'll know whether air bags will be a requirement.
Love the mileage reports. I get about 9.5 to 10 with no wind when towing.
How much does your truck squat under the 4000 lb pin weight? I'm considering a new F-450, but before I buy, I'll take a test drive to the campground and set my trailer down on the truck to see how much squat I get so I'll know whether air bags will be a requirement.
Love the mileage reports. I get about 9.5 to 10 with no wind when towing.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,402
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From: Upstate, NY
Here's a video to show you what it looks like. Imagine how it looks with 4000 pounds of pin weight, 4" of sag and 18,000 pounds behind you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV_-gpZ7iXA
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2009
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Hd05, thanks for the post. You mentioned that you have pulled on the same stretch of road with the Ford and a 6.7 Cummins.
How does the fuel mileage on your Ford compare to what you got with the Ram? I'm curious what the extra cost is for the additional power the Ford has.
How does the fuel mileage on your Ford compare to what you got with the Ram? I'm curious what the extra cost is for the additional power the Ford has.
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Junior User
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Hd05, thanks for the post. You mentioned that you have pulled on the same stretch of road with the Ford and a 6.7 Cummins.
How does the fuel mileage on your Ford compare to what you got with the Ram? I'm curious what the extra cost is for the additional power the Ford has.
How does the fuel mileage on your Ford compare to what you got with the Ram? I'm curious what the extra cost is for the additional power the Ford has.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 191
Likes: 60
From: Ca Wine country
HD05,
Thanks for the info, I have not towed my 5th wheel toy hauler yet, after I turned a 1000 mi. it's been raining and it lives in covered parking and was all shined when put away. Waiting for a sunny day with the time.
My personal opinion is that the exhaust brake on our trucks consists of the PCM closing the throttle plate as in a gas motor and the downshifting of the trans. Before somebody's head explodes the reason I say this the fact that there is virtually nowhere that the mechanics of what is going on when engaged is explained by Ford in anything but the most vague terms. I feel this is justified by the complete lack of any mention of this system in the "6.7 Coffee Table book" I believe that document to have been a technical briefing for Ford and dealer technicians and it hits on every design feature but that one. To me that shows the function is more marketing than reality based and I think real world supports that.
I love my truck, but the ebrake and lack of useful info on the "Productivity Screen" are two areas they missed the boat on.
Thanks for the info, I have not towed my 5th wheel toy hauler yet, after I turned a 1000 mi. it's been raining and it lives in covered parking and was all shined when put away. Waiting for a sunny day with the time.
My personal opinion is that the exhaust brake on our trucks consists of the PCM closing the throttle plate as in a gas motor and the downshifting of the trans. Before somebody's head explodes the reason I say this the fact that there is virtually nowhere that the mechanics of what is going on when engaged is explained by Ford in anything but the most vague terms. I feel this is justified by the complete lack of any mention of this system in the "6.7 Coffee Table book" I believe that document to have been a technical briefing for Ford and dealer technicians and it hits on every design feature but that one. To me that shows the function is more marketing than reality based and I think real world supports that.
I love my truck, but the ebrake and lack of useful info on the "Productivity Screen" are two areas they missed the boat on.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,399
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From: Corinth, TX
oh gawd, not another engine brake thread... it's like Ford put up a sign that said "Free cookies in the lobby, on table #5". then some people went there, got some free cookies, and were happy. Others went in and couldn't find the cookies because they never looked for table #5. Those people got really mad and proclaimed "Ford dropped the ball! no cookies!". Even more people went in and found the cookies, but they were chocolate chip... and they wanted rum raisin, damnit! These people yell out "this is crap! I was promised rum raisin, but there's just these chocolate chip POS cookies!" Yet another group decides that yes, there are cookies, and yes they are free... but chocolate chip is inferior to another type and therefore Ford screwed us all. The last group of people never went to the lobby at all, but decided to tell *other* people "I heard that Ford isn't delivering on their promise of rum raisin cookies. There aren't any cookies at all!"
For many of us, myself included, the integrated engine brake works very well. I use it as instructed, and it works AS DESCRIBED.
For many of us, myself included, the integrated engine brake works very well. I use it as instructed, and it works AS DESCRIBED.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Yes it has been discussed a great deal. This was just my experience. If you put the truck in manual mode it turns off the tow-haul mode however you get the same benefits in engine braking by manually down-shifting so it would seem the "engine brake" is simply a method of the transmission down-shifting for you but not really applying any add'l benefit via the turbo etc. A very poorly designed application. Great truck, just disappointed Ford dropped the ball in this specific arena.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
oh gawd, not another engine brake thread... it's like Ford put up a sign that said "Free cookies in the lobby, on table #5". then some people went there, got some free cookies, and were happy. Others went in and couldn't find the cookies because they never looked for table #5. Those people got really mad and proclaimed "Ford dropped the ball! no cookies!". Even more people went in and found the cookies, but they were chocolate chip... and they wanted rum raisin, damnit! These people yell out "this is crap! I was promised rum raisin, but there's just these chocolate chip POS cookies!" Yet another group decides that yes, there are cookies, and yes they are free... but chocolate chip is inferior to another type and therefore Ford screwed us all. The last group of people never went to the lobby at all, but decided to tell *other* people "I heard that Ford isn't delivering on their promise of rum raisin cookies. There aren't any cookies at all!"
For many of us, myself included, the integrated engine brake works very well. I use it as instructed, and it works AS DESCRIBED FOR LIGHTER LOADS LIKE THE RIG PICTURED IN MY SIGNATURE.
For many of us, myself included, the integrated engine brake works very well. I use it as instructed, and it works AS DESCRIBED FOR LIGHTER LOADS LIKE THE RIG PICTURED IN MY SIGNATURE.
