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TUX: FE Finally Gets A Makeover

 
  #61  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:03 AM
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Hey guys, got my 428 all togther now. But having issues.

I used the Mr. Gasket MRG-1132G metal gaskets. I sprayed liberally with copper spray and torqued and sequenced and numbered according to Steve Christ FE book. 1st pass 70lbs, 2nd 80lbs, then final 90lbs with time in between. THey are thin at .020". Blocked decked .007. Heads milled .005 or better. Now the intake doesn't line up flush.

Install went real smooth until I was breaking in the cam and noticed a nice steady stream of oil coming out of head on drivers side. Appears to be the headgasket not sealing the oil passages!!! I checked the torque and it was down to 80lbs on a few of them. I doubt it's stretching. The intake doesn't meet with the heads flush anymore. It's gotta be an intake-to-block-to head oil leak..







 
  #62  
Old 04-04-2011, 09:07 PM
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It sounds to me like the re-use of the head bolts could be the problem. With the thinner head gasket everything has to be more precise since you don't have as much crush in the gasket to take up the slop. 10 ftp doesn't sound like a lot but it could be just enough. I have always been told that any time the head comes off the head gasket and bolts must be replaced. Unfortunately replacing the bolts you may also have to replace the head gasket since they have already been crushed. I know, more money and a pain in the ***, but it would be cheaper than re-using the ones you have and just finding that you have another leak because of it and then having to buy another set of gasket and another set of arp bolts. That's just my 2 cents anyways. By the way, give looking motor, I want one I like what you did with the stainless braided fuel line, very clean looking.
 
  #63  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:53 AM
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First time I ever heard of needing to replace head bolts every time the heads are off, on an FE. ?
 
  #64  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:09 AM
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I agree with Krewat as well. built my 360 numerous times then turned it into a 390 and used same bolts all 4 times. never heard of FE's using disposable head bolts.
 
  #65  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:16 AM
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I don't know specifically about the FE, I'm actually kinda new to them as I purchased my first one 9 months ago, but that's what I have always heard as a rule of thumb due to torturing them properly is a process of slightly stretching the bolts to achieve and hold the proper clamping pressure. I don't know if its absolutely necessary for every engine out there so I'm sorry if I posted bad info, but that's what I have always heard. I'm kinda prone to better safe than sorry mentality.
 
  #66  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:19 AM
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Of coarse I'm only 24 and fully realize I have many years of learning left to do, so any criticism is openly welcome and appreciated
 
  #67  
Old 04-05-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jchamp429 View Post
I don't know specifically about the FE, I'm actually kinda new to them as I purchased my first one 9 months ago, but that's what I have always heard as a rule of thumb due to torturing them properly is a process of slightly stretching the bolts to achieve and hold the proper clamping pressure. I don't know if its absolutely necessary for every engine out there so I'm sorry if I posted bad info, but that's what I have always heard. I'm kinda prone to better safe than sorry mentality.
Disposable head bolts are not universal but they do seem to be getting more common. My general rule of thumb (not just for headbolts but for bolts in general) is that if the final torque spec is less than 125 - 150 foot pounds, it's probably reusable. If the torque spec is higher than 150 or calls for 'tighten to 78 foot pounds then turn an additional 82 degrees', or stupid garbage like that (Yeah, I last overhauled one of those), then it's less mentally stressful to just replace the hardware and not worry about it ever again.

And, of course, if it's a small bolt then 150 foot pounds shears it off so it definitely gets replaced

Ease of access is another consideration. How much do I need to save on new hardware to justify potentially replacing that bolt later?

Those are guidelines picked up 30+ years ago and honed over time. I've spent a lot of 'unnecessary' money on hardware over the years but I've never had a rig break down because a repair I had made didn't hold.
 
  #68  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:17 AM
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Sounds good to me, I think I will steal that little piece of your 30+ years experience to replace my 7 year experience if you don't mind This is why I love this site, so many great people to learn from.
 
  #69  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jchamp429 View Post
This is why I love this site, so many great people to learn from.
And why I love the hobby - even after all the cars, trucks and motorcycles I've worked on over the years there's still more stuff to learn.....
 
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:16 PM
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Well, I for one, am really getting sick of this hobby. I have had so many issues with FE's over any other engine. I have got to figure out what in the flying $%& is the matter. My time and money is on this planet is getting worn thin. I've really just about had it with it all.

Confirmed it's the headgasket leaking OIL. How in the HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE?! I made a video so all can see and believe. It's leaking in two spots directly from the the head gasket.

I retorqued the headbolts. They were down 10-20lbs after the heat cycle. Keep in mind this 428 only has about 25mins of runtime on it now.

And ANOTHER g-damn issue is I keep getting loose rockers! I dunno if the lifters are dying from lack of oil or what. The only carry over parts from my 390 are the heads, intake, and adjustable rockers which have about 10k of use on them. I swear on everything thats holy these heads are cursed. I'm about ready to drop the $2000 bomb and have rob (blue oval) build me some alum edelbrocks if I can't get this problem fixed soon. I had the same noises with my 390 all those years. It's gotta be these heads are the problem..

Check out the video and please tell me what you guys think.

YouTube - TuxIssues
 
  #71  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:13 PM
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Damn man, that sucks, I feel for ya, I know how it is to have an issue and not be able to figure out what's wrong. But its such a good feeling when you finally get it. I know its basic and not trying to insult your intelligence, but did you check the block and head mating surfaces for flat before installing? I know its basic but I have forgotten simple stuff like that in the past and just about pulled my hair out because of it. As far as the sound and rockers not holding torque, I have no idea. I watched your video and I could be wrong But it sounded like only a couple rocker arms where loose. Any chance the adjusting bolt on those ones are loosening up? Hopefully this helps with one of those little light bulb over the head moments
 
  #72  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:31 PM
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Does the gasket oil hole line up with the block and head?
Was the deck/heads resurfaced for the type of head gasket you are using? MLS gaskets are a bit more specific on how flat things are.
You have the rocker bolts in the right place, yes?

You have hydraulic lifters yes? they could just be bleeding back.

good luck, don't loose the faith, and FE's aren't any easier or harder than any other engine.
Dp
 
  #73  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:50 PM
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If you do decide to give up on the thing I would be more than happy to take it off your hands I'm just kidding, hang in there man, you will get it figured out and it will be worth it
 
  #74  
Old 04-06-2011, 08:33 AM
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Block was fresh decked. Heads milled 20k miles ago. Rob checked flatness of heads when he assembled, said they were fine. Not sure if oil holes lined up or not. Can't see in picture.

Yes rocker bolts in right spot. Necked bolt on oil passage 2nd from front (LH) and second from rear (RH). Oil holes on bottom of shaft. I've tried with or without holley jet restrictor.

So far these headgaskets are the biggest piece of #$$% I've ever wasted my time and money on.
 
  #75  
Old 04-06-2011, 10:48 AM
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Red face Head Gaskets

I feel your pain I have a 390 in my 65 Bird that has the same problem. I used the same head gaskets that you did and have an oil leak on the left head in about the same place that you do. I retorqed my heads and added 10 lbs to the final torque. This slowed the leak to almost nothing. I also have a noisy valvetrain issues , when the engine is cold its quiet no noises , when fully warmed up it sounds like a set of solids that are adjusted right. I've tried longer pushrods and finally went to adjustable rockers it sounds the same. What cam are you using? I wonder if my lifters are the hi rev type , which I am told will sound like solids when warmed up. I ordered stock lifters when I bought my cam kit. I am going to pull my heads soon and change to the Fel Pro 1020's and hope it helps. Good luck with your engine.

Have A Great Day ----- Hotwrench
 

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