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TUX: FE Finally Gets A Makeover

 
  #46  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
It had been explained to me at some point by my machinist, that the short rod of the 390 actually HELPS low-end torque because of the change in acceleration of the piston as it nears and leaves TDC. Higher acceleration just after it leaves TDC helps get the intake flowing better. Or at least, that's what HE said. I can't say it really does that in the real world, but it IS something to take into account.

Of course, it might also hurt higher-RPM longevity, but the shorter rod is stronger anyway... and using forged pistons that's a non-issue.
There is a pretty complex relationship between rod length, stroke, and bore. It's been 20 years since I did a purpose built engine but I do remember that you can move peak HP/Torque up and down the RPM band as well as affecting the levels. As I recall, cam, carb, intake and exhaust are more important in determining the shape of your power curve.

There is a whole lot more available knowledge out there now due to the magic of the interwebz (last time I built an engine we were pretty cutting edge with our 28.8 modem and AOL) so in this case I am more than happy to believe the 360 to 390 conversion is well documented and is probably the way to go in my case (infrequent use and most of that to pull around a 16' travel trailer).

Unfortunately the 'headers or not' argument doesn't seem to have a clear winner here on the forums.....
 
  #47  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:32 AM
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Anything but the stock logs (bricks), I'd think, especially in a long-tube header with practical primary diameters...
 
  #48  
Old 02-28-2011, 01:04 PM
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I have Hedman Elite Ceramic headers w/ ball style collectors on my '67. Never once had a leak. They are excellent, and I would recommend them to everyone.

I just dropped off the block/crank/intake at the machinist. First off, they are going to check everything and let me know what it needs. Line bore is $180. Crank inspect and polish $35. I did the mains oil cham mods already. They are going to hot tank once they are done.

He is going to balance the crank and said to bring him the new rods, pistons, flywheel, balancer, and clutch and he is going to balance it all for $190. So, I figure its now or never.

Now, next question. I gotta find some affordable pistons to raise my comp. Also, do I REALLY need to buy ARP main bolts or are the original huge monsters still good? The rods I just ordered are already coming with ARP rod bolts...
 

Last edited by ceetwarrior; 02-28-2011 at 02:17 PM. Reason: added NFO
  #49  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
Anything but the stock logs (bricks), I'd think, especially in a long-tube header with practical primary diameters...
Practical being what for these engines? 1-5/8"? It's already got 2-1/4" dual exhaust and the pipes look good so other than new mufflers and a crossover pipe that's good to go.

I'm probably going to stick with the stock 2 bbl and look for a slightly taller than stock split pattern cam. Seems foolish to go 4bbl when I can only use about 500 cfm and will probably never exceed 4500 RPM....Well, maybe once or twice next spring at the street legal drags.....
 
  #50  
Old 02-28-2011, 03:10 PM
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I think the ones I had were 1 7/8", but that might not be the desired thing...

Guys?
 
  #51  
Old 02-28-2011, 04:25 PM
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I run Hooker 1 7/8" long tubes to 3" collectors, 2 1/4" the rest of the way. this was a BIG upgrade even on the 360. On something thats not putting out huge power or running at high rpm you wont want a header 2" or larger.

Headers>exhaust manifold logs!
 
  #52  
Old 02-28-2011, 06:30 PM
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Well guys, I have GOOD NEWS!

I just bought a 428 service shortblock with the extra webbing. " It's STD 428 bore, brand new everything hyper pistons(factory 4v style). block has been tanked, peened and tumbled, bored and honed, decked and line hone checked. 428 1U crank turned .010 .010, turned, radiused, polished and oil holes chamfered. new clevite rod and main bearings, durabond cam bearings, brass freeze plugs. rods are C7AE, they have been resized, rebushed and ARP rod bolts have been installed. the rotating assembly has been balanced (the assembly is still externally balanced however.) "

I just put a deposit on it, and I'll be picking it up tomorrow. He's even going to balance my flywheel to the engine to sweeten the deal when I go to Denver to get it tomorrow. SO, that solves that issue!!!!!!! Well kinda, I still am going to fix the crank issue on my 390 and reassemble it for resale as a shortblock.
 
  #53  
Old 02-28-2011, 08:08 PM
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Niice! Moving on up to the 428. Shouldn't be too bad on the wallet with a little recoup from the 390. What cam are you going to be running?
Like your sig says, there's no replacement for displacement!
 
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy445FE View Post
Niice! Moving on up to the 428. Shouldn't be too bad on the wallet with a little recoup from the 390. What cam are you going to be running?
Like your sig says, there's no replacement for displacement!
Very true!! I have dreamed about a 428 in my sleeper truck since I built it in high school.

This is the cam I'm looking at. Still open to suggestions as I haven't ordered it yet: H- 288 camshaft & lifter kit - Fd. FE 352- 428 V8 63- 76

What kind of HP should I expect? 428, Cam/springs, Port and polish, long tube headers, holley 670, and only waterpump and alternator on engine drive, hehe.

Once I get the block/crank figured out on the 390 I'll put it all back together and sell it as a shortblock. It's a GREAT truck motor. It's got killer torque with that cam.
 
  #55  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:16 PM
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I think you're going to want a bit more cam than that with the 428. Most people spin em up to 6-6500rpm. That cam is done at 5600. Are you set on buying from Crane? There are other manufacturers with a lot more options. Compcams, Isky, Lunati, Crower to name a few. I would call their tech lines and tell them what you have and what you plan on doing with it, and they can recommend something appropriate. Then you could compare the grinds and service from all the makers and decide from there.
I think you'll need a bigger carb also. The 428 came with a 735cfm so I dont think that 670 is gonna get it done in a high perf setup.

Oh and what intake do you plan on using?
 
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy445FE View Post
I think you're going to want a bit more cam than that with the 428. Most people spin em up to 6-6500rpm. That cam is done at 5600. Are you set on buying from Crane? There are other manufacturers with a lot more options. Compcams, Isky, Lunati to name a few. I would call their tech lines and tell them what you have and what you plan on doing with it, and they can recommend something appropriate. Then you could compare the grinds and service from all the makers and decide from there.
I think you'll need a bigger carb also. The 428 came with a 735cfm so I dont think that 670 is gonna get it done in a high perf setup.

Oh and what intake do you plan on using?
LOL, carb is not in the budget at this point. But I'm at high alt so I don't need a HUGE carb. I'm sure it'll be fine. My 670 is a dual feed! It sucks some gas! I guess I'll find out when it comes time for tuning...

I didn't want to get too HUGE of a cam so I kinda was leaning towards that one. I don't play on spinnng it past 6 regardless of what cam I get haha. I'm kinda leaning on Crane cause I like their stuff and I already got the right crane valve springs I'll be using. I didn't want to get too crazy with stock type valvetrain. What other crane cam are you thinkin' of? Oh and I have power brakes so I can't get too crazy cam! NOT interested in a vaccum pump.

And I'm running my 428CJ iron intake.
 
  #57  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:09 AM
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well you could use the Crane springs with another makers cam and lifters...if you wanna do some math and measuring for spring rates

Basically as long as the springs and cam combine to make an acceptable spring rate they will work.(mine do not come from same brand)
But it is always easier to get things that match.

The stock valvetrain weakpoint was the rocker shaft. The ends that hang out past the center stands have been known fail under high strain. The solution is to install end stands. I installed some Precision Oil Pump billet end stands on mine. My cam is .562/.565" lift 274/286 dur., the spring rate was good (with my mystery springs). According to Barry R(FE super guru) it's around the max the stock setup can handle reliably. So just FFR you know about what you can and can't do with your stock rocker assembly.

I think the cam you have picked will be the best out of the selection Crane has on their page for what you want. Idle quality and your expected operating rpm fit so I'd say go for it. Same with the carb, run it. If you're not going to be spinning it real high it should be fine. Just know that there is alot on the table still.
 
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:05 PM
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Drumroll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!













Webbing

It's been decked .007
 
  #59  
Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 PM
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Thumbs up

Very Nice!!! Looks great! cant wait to see it up and running.

Keep us posted!
 
  #60  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy445FE View Post
Very Nice!!! Looks great! cant wait to see it up and running.

Keep us posted!
For sure! Rob at Blue Oval Performance Eng is going to fix my heads and recurve my distributor for me in a next week. He's even going to order parts for me and save me dough. He says that Crane 341 cam is an old design but will make good mid power without stressing valvetrain. Also it's the biggest one they make to go with my 801 springs which I'm not interested in changing (someday I'll get alums). He confirmed that if I run the small head gasket .22 then I should be right around 10.1 comp. Block is decked .007. Heads milled, also. He said 428cj is an excellent intake and my holley 670 will be just fine for street/strip use. Recommends changing out the secondary spring for a purple or yellow and upping main jet a couple numbers. WOO HOO!!
 

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