Hey fellas, looking for some opinions. I'm an old school 4 speed guy...but as I plan the drivetrain in my next project I'd like to include Overdrive.
What would you guys do?

If I went with the T19/BW1345/Gear Vendors combo then I can also "split" between 2nd and 3rd gear. However, the price tag is pretty steep for some guy mowing grass and shoveling snow...coming in right around $3k brand new!

I've never been a fan of aluminum transmissions, but I'm trying to broaden my horizons and realize there are many guys who beat the crap out of their ZF5's daily without issues. For somewhere around $500 I could probably get a ZF5/BW1356 combo if I shop around, or get another parts truck. The price difference is a no-brainer, the ZF5 makes more sense financially...just wondering about life longevity behind a turbo 6.9.

I'm talking about my 4x4 F150 shortbed with '65 body project. The truck is mainly gonna be driven hard with light loads in the pickup bed around 1k pounds, or towing light up to but not above 6k pounds, or pushing snow with a 7.5' straight blade. It WILL get abused, but in such a lightweight truck without much of a load, I figure I can't possibly break a ZF5 after seeing the punishment you guys put yours though with MUCH more weight.

Who's got an opinion? And who's got a story about some ZF5 abuse?

 

I've ALWAYS got an opinion.

My vote would be for the T19/1345/GV for a couple of reasons. Best reason is the ability to split the gears. I never realized how nice that was until I started driving my Warn OD equipped GPW. Second reason is brute strength. The T19 is a beast of a transmission. I've never seen one explode, short of draining the grease & running it anyways. The gear vendors are in that same category. Final reason is the fact that all 3 units are VERY easy to rebuild, reseal, resynchro. Most labor intensive part of the rebuild is actually getting the T19 up onto the bench.

I don't like the ZF5s at all. I've seen too many problems with them. Cracked housings, sheared input gear teeth, broke shafts, gears exploded, so much slop in the shift forks from tweaked casings that you cannot engage reverse, and I could go on, but you get the point. The other problem I have with the ZF5 is that I don't like modular transmissions. A real standard transmission seperates from the bellhousing.

 

I don't necessarily agree. I've known lots of guys with ZF-5's that go 200K plus with no reall issues and the BW 1356 is not difficult to rebuild at all. Don't know about the ZF. I'm sure the T19 is easier. The money is definitely a consideration. I paid exactly 500 for a rebuilt ZF 5S-42 with a BW 1356 T-case and it worked flawlessly. I only had to deal with gear rollover noise because I ran a SM flywheel. I towed a 7K trailer and the truck weighed well over 7K with us and our gear in it. I hauled over 3000 pounds of rock in it multiple times and never had an issue. The ZF's are just fine. The T19's are nearly indestructible, but you can blow up synchros in them. The overdrive on the ZF is really great though

 

ive got a zf 542 in my 250 4x4, i havent had an issue with it yet, not a fan os the one peice bellhousing as mentioned. im a firm beleaver in cast iron. i have been looking for a splitter for the zf. splitting gears is great when your towing. however i have been toying with the idea of trying to stick an NV4500 behind the 7.3. ive also been looking at trying to stuff a spicer or eaton 5,6 or 7 speed behind it in the old 250. since International used the 6.9 and 7.3 in there med. duty truck chassies, there are some spicers and eatons floating around that would bolt to the engine. just gotta find the right bell housing. SAE#2 i beleave. haveing 7 gears would be killer in this truck.

 

I bought my truck with the gear vendor under/overdrive unit already in it. I find it mostly useful as an overdrive. Splitting 2nd is too similar to 3rd, and split 3rd is too similar to 4th, in my opinion, to be worth the price tag. One thing to consider is the long snout on the GV unit. I have a 4 door crew cab, so no problem, but the unit I have would not fit in a regular cab without taking out the front gas tank. I know you are putting it in a 66 (I used to have one of those also) so your tank is in the cab.... but my point is, for a SWB you are going to have a very short drive shaft with flexed U-joints after you install a GV unit. Check the dimensions and make sure that kind of set-up is what you want before you drop that kind of money. The GV is well built, but they do have a weakness. I broke a speedometer cable while driving down the freeway at 70 mph. The GV requires 25+ mph to engage, so the binding cable caused it to slam in and out of OD before the cable finally snapped. Felt like I was getting rear-ended by a semi truck over and over. Scary. If you were wondering about toughness, I guess that answers that question too! Holy crap. I have to say that if I didn't have overdrive and wanted it, I would go for the 5 speed rather than the GV set-up. I like it, but if my truck didn't come with it I wouldn't pay 3K for it. It's a rougher shift than a 5th gear and gets some getting used to. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. I've begun to appreciate the ZF5 a bit more, I guess you could call me hard-headed..but I'm starting to open up! The 1st phase will be FE-powered, so it'll have a T18/BW1345 or T19/BW145 combo for round 1 until I get the 6.9 built up with a 99.5-03 PSD turbo with custom up-piping. So I'll have a 4 speed until I find a ZF5 or if a Gear Vendors essentially falls into my lap. I don't want to pay more than $500 because the more I have to pay for Overdrive means the longer it will take for the fuel savings to make it a worthwhile investment. I hadn't taken the length into consideration, the rig is a shortbed F150 and I will end up running the frame-mounted fuel tank because the in-cab tank will be pulled out so the rear cab mounts on the 95 frame will fit the cab without a ridiculous 6" body lift or so. Of course I'm shootng for a 3" body lift anyway for motor/turbo/bellhousing clearance. I really appreciate the input guys!

 

with fuel prices like they are,and continuing to climb,this doesn't take so long anymore.

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long gone are the days to drive a vehicle with just a direct drive trans as a daily driver (or 10k miles per year or more) imho.
unless you want to keep feeding the greedy pigs.

 

i get 17 plus with my t19

 

all things are relative.
that just means you could be pushing 20 mpg with an OD Joe.
depending on how much you drive,how long you plan to keep the truck,this could be several thousands of dollars for the ownership duration with current fuel prices.
7-9 mpg with a 460 isn't bad for those who only drive 3k miles per year.makes little difference.
for those who drive 10-20k per year,every 1mpg adds up big time.

 

yea the od might give me 2 to 3 mpg the clucth cost more and i would have to buy the trany that 500 to 1000s i love my t19 ands dave s has a t19 with 400k on it and riseing

 

how the hell are you pushing 17. im luckey if i get 13 right now

 

Well most days I'm lucky just to get the thing into 4th gear driving around town. Most driving I do is around 35-40 MPH speed limits, 4th gear is great for that. It's when i hit the highway that I start wishing for that overdrive gear. My work truck doesn't need overdrive, but this '65 Project...I'd really love to hit the road for vacation and overdrive would be awesome on the roadtrips cruising down the highway. Thanks for the input guys, I'll stick with the T19 until a ZF5 becomes available for this '65. As of last night, the 65 might be seeing the IDI right away since my sisters Jeep needs an engine and the machine shop said $2,400 for the Jeep engine rebuild. Ouch! So I think the 352 FE is gonna find it's home in the engine bay of an 84 CJ7. I'm scared the thing is gonna do wheelies! But it works out OK for me, I can fit the 65 cab onto the chassis while finding a good spot for the 6.9 to sit in the bay. I can then adjust the amount of body lift accordingly so the PSD turbo and up-pipes will fit nicely.

 

driveing on flat lvl ground unloaded at 55

 

same here.12-13ish,without doing any plowing i think.
but our fuel is cut with K1 right now to avoid fuel gelling that brings down the BTU's and hurts fuel economy.
not likely much of a concern in Cali.
though after my e-fan/dump bed aerodynamic change/improvement?/timing advance,i did recently hit 14.5 out on the interstate at 60-65mph! i couldn't believe it.of course no pushing snow on that tank,so i recorded it here.another one coming.snow tomorrow so i'll have to make it a partial tank before i plow so i can add it in.but it "appears" just 20-30 miles under the interstate run at 1/2 tank right now.so hopefully it will be 13.5 - 14 (thats real work mpg's again though.hauling heavy and towing chipper around.)
*edit- ah no such luck.but kinda close. got 12.5 that time.
getting ready to see what i have done,once summer fuel is here.i think im going to be impressed.come on 15-16 avg!
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My best ever is 14 MPG.