FICM is Toast - 48 or 58 from swamps?
#46
02-19-2011, 09:53 AM
If the higher voltage FICM's are making more HP, then that's because they are affecting injector PW and/or timing. Run the injectors hotter to overcome lazy spool valves, I get that. A 40+ HP difference, I don't believe it.
Has anyone ever done a comparison in a truck with a properly working set of injectors, and tested with a good 48V, and 58V? AFAIK there are only a handful of guys out there that have gone to hot FICM's when their original was working well. My argument is that most guys see a benefit because they replaced a dying FICM with one that actually works, or their injectors are coaxed into behaving better by the increased voltage.
Has anyone ever done a comparison in a truck with a properly working set of injectors, and tested with a good 48V, and 58V? AFAIK there are only a handful of guys out there that have gone to hot FICM's when their original was working well. My argument is that most guys see a benefit because they replaced a dying FICM with one that actually works, or their injectors are coaxed into behaving better by the increased voltage.
I totally agree with you about the 40HP increases by simply raising the voltage. I simply don't think that happens. Perhaps with a combination of FICM tuning AND voltage increase then possibly, but 40 is a LOT in my experience. To properly test HP increases I think you would need a set of balanced/flowed injectors to get really accurate results.
I think you are very correct to say that the increases are the result of replacing a FICM that's slowly died over time with a properly operating FICM. I've had that opinion for a long time.
#47
02-19-2011, 12:32 PM
How about doing it on an injector tester bench?
Simulate actual operating conditions, including heat, fuel pressure etc.
Instrument the injectors so you can see the spool / plunger valve move and plot it.
To really be a good test, the FICM need to be heated up to simulate actual underhood temps.
plus wiring, etc.
That would be kind of fun...
#48
02-19-2011, 04:56 PM
How about doing it on an injector tester bench?
Simulate actual operating conditions, including heat, fuel pressure etc.
Instrument the injectors so you can see the spool / plunger valve move and plot it.
To really be a good test, the FICM need to be heated up to simulate actual underhood temps.
plus wiring, etc.
That would be kind of fun...
Simulate actual operating conditions, including heat, fuel pressure etc.
Instrument the injectors so you can see the spool / plunger valve move and plot it.
To really be a good test, the FICM need to be heated up to simulate actual underhood temps.
plus wiring, etc.
That would be kind of fun...
6.0 Flow benches are very few and far between. I only know of 2 or 3 in existence and the only one I've seen has no way to do those tests. It simply operates the injectors to test fuel volume (very simplistically speaking).
#49
02-19-2011, 07:37 PM
I am well aware of that.
There is one at a shop about 2.5 hrs from me... but I haven't managed to talk themselves into letting me use it as a toy.
The tricky thing is we need to flow test on actual cylinder injection cycles simulated (split shot) by varying the voltage and seeing if there is a material change to fuel flow.
A measurable change to fuel flow is but one part of the equation --- if it flows more (presumably with a more crisp valve opening, but not closing), so what?
As it stands, we know properly working stock injectors fcan flow fuel for 500hp.... (ask Tex).
AFAIK, Tex is using a stock FICM and no voltage mods.
To me, that is not where the 6.0's weakest / biggest bang for the buck link is.
Oh... about the availability of high temp capacitors in the right sizes... I did check way ahead of posting with a distributor that I use.
They are available, but just not readily.
There are some things that the pros... are distinguished from the amateurs!
I do have some questions as to whether even the high temp caps that are available are the same as the OEM ones... and whether or not for this application.. the FICM builder got a specially sorted batch for them.
I am leaning toward the specially sorted batch theory.
#50
02-21-2011, 09:05 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I ordered the 58V last week and then read some more posts. While I was reading the posts I read that there was a good possibility that I would get an out of range code on my insight. I didn't want to deal with having to reset the code all the time so I called up Swamps and asked them to change my order to a 48 volt.
I plan to keep the excursion that I am installing the FICM in for a long time (until the body falls apart) and I hope this is the last FICM problem that I have to deal with. Will post back on the results once I install it.
At this point, I willing to gamble that swamps advertisement of upgraded parts is legitimate.
Thanks for all the info you guys have shared! I sure appreciate having this resource at my fingertips.
I plan to keep the excursion that I am installing the FICM in for a long time (until the body falls apart) and I hope this is the last FICM problem that I have to deal with. Will post back on the results once I install it.
At this point, I willing to gamble that swamps advertisement of upgraded parts is legitimate.
Thanks for all the info you guys have shared! I sure appreciate having this resource at my fingertips.
#51
02-21-2011, 09:08 PM
#52
02-22-2011, 08:47 AM
I just repared my FICM at home, according to my oasis, my truck already had a ford replacement, so at 90k miles this is the 2nd failure. I do not think that it will fail again(leaded solder, and generous staking) my voltage now tests 48volts and the truck runs better, starts instantly, and has gained mpgs. Additives and a block heater are not a substatute for a FICM repair! running on 24-36volts may run ok, but not right. The 4 redundand power supplies are there to provide reliability, if one(or two maybe) fail you will not be stranded. The factory FICM is manufactured by International, not Ford.Does the E series FICM use an extension harness?
#53
02-22-2011, 10:32 AM
There is no "extension" but a different harness for the E vs. the F.
It is mounted on the body behind the coolant bottle.
IMHO, the best / cheapest upgrade you can do to the FICM is to take it off the valve cover and mount it on a bracket that lifts it away from the vibration / heat of the engine.
Toss in a few heat shields, some way to get cooling air at it...
$25 of parts can do that without a cable extension.
#54
11-28-2014, 04:15 PM
Lead Driver
When questions of technical specifications, engineering and validation turn into religious debates over faith, who to believe, and gospel that is sent by non public email to believers (and not published for the general public)....
I think I have then answer I need.
I will wait for a reputable independent laboratory with the proper equipment to run actual tests and publish the results before I decide to deviate from the original design.
Install it.
Be an alpha test site.
Be my guest.
So far, people who have tried the 58v mod have pretty mixed results -- ranging from no difference to codes --- separating the ones who just did the voltage and not additional software tuning.
Oh yes, I like my chassis mounted FICM just fine.
And my beast will be running long after many trucks on here are scrapped.
It is orders of magnitude more reliable than the engine mounted part.
Yes... I have a standing request for Ford to come up with a derated tune for the 6.7 so I can get more life out of that motor!
If there is a way for me to do a programmed cylinder de-activation to get more fuel economy (technically possible with a newly designed and programmed FICM), I would do that too!
Right now, the back-of-the envelope economy gain from a programmed cylinder deactivation with 4-6-8 arrangement is yielding about a 10 to 15% estimated fuel savings --- nearly worthwhile to try.
I am optimizing for longevity and fuel economy.
To date, I have the miles to prove reliability.
I think I have then answer I need.
I will wait for a reputable independent laboratory with the proper equipment to run actual tests and publish the results before I decide to deviate from the original design.
Install it.
Be an alpha test site.
Be my guest.
So far, people who have tried the 58v mod have pretty mixed results -- ranging from no difference to codes --- separating the ones who just did the voltage and not additional software tuning.
Oh yes, I like my chassis mounted FICM just fine.
And my beast will be running long after many trucks on here are scrapped.
It is orders of magnitude more reliable than the engine mounted part.
Yes... I have a standing request for Ford to come up with a derated tune for the 6.7 so I can get more life out of that motor!
If there is a way for me to do a programmed cylinder de-activation to get more fuel economy (technically possible with a newly designed and programmed FICM), I would do that too!
Right now, the back-of-the envelope economy gain from a programmed cylinder deactivation with 4-6-8 arrangement is yielding about a 10 to 15% estimated fuel savings --- nearly worthwhile to try.
I am optimizing for longevity and fuel economy.
To date, I have the miles to prove reliability.
Digging this back up! I know he isn't around to tell me how "dumb" I am.
But it has been 3yrs (or was it 4?) and 60,000 miles. been through 2 set's of batteries. 2 failed alternators. Spent a week for the last 4yrs at over 100*F day's driving up and down obx beaches loaded. Spent nearly a month in the -*f day's last year. The fuel gelled, but the FICM was solid. 2 weeks ago, it didn't blink at 4 day's near zero.
Truck has pulled trailers (some in excess of 14,000lbs) through PA's mountains. Pulls my camper every other weekend (8,000lbs) all over PA. Hauls a triaxle load of firewood every year.
It has outlasted 2 sets of tires, survived a crash that required a front end rebuild, that destroyed 1 of the batteries.
So in short, the OEM one lasted 40,000 miles, The Swamp's 58vlt 60,000miles.
Not a single problem with injectors, or wiring either.
I'm not saying it is better, but I'm not saying it is worse either.
Of course, now that I typed this, it will crap soon.......but I still had better luck than with OEM.
#55
11-29-2014, 07:46 AM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ex now has 204K which is 74k miles since I replaced the ficm. The voltage holds steady at 48V whether hot or cold. I know that some other reputable ficm repair places have opened since this thread ran wild but assuming swamps is still in the ficm business (I haven't checked) I have no complaints and am a satisfied customer. I hope this one never has to be replaced.
FTE has been a great resource as a first time diesel owner and I thank everyone for sharing their time and knowledge.
FTE has been a great resource as a first time diesel owner and I thank everyone for sharing their time and knowledge.
#56
11-29-2014, 08:26 AM
I found out a few months ago I had a Swamps 58v tuned FICM. The tuning was done by Innovative diesel.
The only thing I don't like about it is it will show 48v on the SG2 and not the 58v that's actually there. I had to measure it on the FICM. I really would like to monitor the voltage at all times, but that would require a separate gauge.
I've only got about 20k miles on it since I bought it. The PO has probably put at least that much on it before I got it and I have not had any problems with it. The truck runs really good.
I thought about changing it back to a stock tuned 48v.
The only thing I don't like about it is it will show 48v on the SG2 and not the 58v that's actually there. I had to measure it on the FICM. I really would like to monitor the voltage at all times, but that would require a separate gauge.
I've only got about 20k miles on it since I bought it. The PO has probably put at least that much on it before I got it and I have not had any problems with it. The truck runs really good.
I thought about changing it back to a stock tuned 48v.
#57
11-29-2014, 08:32 AM
Lead Driver
#58
11-29-2014, 08:48 AM
I only measured it once at KOEO and it read 57.5v. Strange thing is the reading on the SG2 will drop sometimes to as low as 42v. but truck never hiccups.
Maybe I should try a different x-gauge code?
I haven't been monitoring it, I am going to this morning, truck is plugged in but it's 28 deg. I'll see what it is at start up.
Maybe I should try a different x-gauge code?
I haven't been monitoring it, I am going to this morning, truck is plugged in but it's 28 deg. I'll see what it is at start up.
#59
11-29-2014, 09:09 AM
Lead Driver
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
