Consequences of using sub-standard capacitors:

Lower temperature mean they will not take the heat --- and gradually break down / shortening their life considerably from spec.

These capacitors are given a life in hours --- they do not last forever.

When capacitors fail, they do strange things to circuits, but perhaps, the worse is one failure mode is an open short:

Capacitor Lab - Capacitor Failure Modes

Or read this in an AC power application:

http://www.apcdistributors.com/.../W...%20Large%20Sys...

Or this:

Failure Modes and Reliability Design Guidelines of Capacitors (Aluminum/Tantalum/Ceramic)

 

I have a easy way to do a high voltage mod!

All you have to do is to replace the regulator in the alternator with one that changes the maximum voltage from 14.1 to a value, say 20% higher!

The supply voltage will now be about 17 volts for the entire car!

Just imagine... higher voltage will mean all your electronics will work faster, bulbs will be brighter, batteries charge faster, and any electric motor operated stuff like power windows will crank faster.

The FICM, with a higher voltage input, will also work better!

Why not?

Same logic.


Warning: Don't even think of trying this.

 

Isn't the E series FICM frame mounted simply because there's no room to mount it in the same location as on F series? I wouldn't consider a different factory mounting location as a "mod".


Other than mounting location, how do the E and F series FICM's differ?

If they are nearly identical, how are you able to make a determination of E vs. F series FICM failure rates through parts sales data?

 

It is a "mod" when applied to an F

FICM is identical hardware wise.

I believe but cannot confirm that software wise, they are also identical.

But the PCMs are tuned different.

Slightly lower max. power output, completely different air flow / cooling in hood.

Huge difference:

Nearly unheard of for E van owners to put tunes, mods, etc.

Many E vans live a far harder life (hours wise) with lots and lots of idling (ambulance duty).




I pull a population data for the number of E vs Fs they sold / service, sorted by model year.

Then pull the service data to see how many FICMs replaced (for any reason) indexed to population to get a crude frequency.

Then go back to cross the number with parts to see how many were sold total sorted by PNs (which is normally higher) presumably to service aftermarket / non warranted parts.

They do keep track of what vehicle it was sold for.

Then get a crude split of what was sold whether it is for Fs or Es.

It does not correct for mileage and so on that the Ford parts data base have to get failure rates...

Not a great guess.. but a crude approximation.

Real telltale:

FICM failures are nearly unheard of beginning the 2008 model year, when it is all Es.

 

I have read all 51 pages and I did not see anywhere that a person has had failures related to the 58V mod (OK I admit, I may have skipped over a post or two - it is a long thread). They may claim it hasn't helped, but that is a different topic. Many poeple just try things to correct problems without knowing for sure what the real issue is. That does not mean that the 58V mod does not help certain issues.

One thing I have noticed over the forum years is that a lot of people enjoy complaining. If things don't work, folks will be complaining. I think this natural tendency significantly outweighs anyones hesitancy (or embarassment) to admit they installed something that doesn't work.

I agree with your long-term concerns GL, but forums are all about folks trying things - willing to take risks (not all, but quite a few).

I have trouble believing that Ford is now the "gold standard" as you say - since they initiated the problems. How are we to believe that their reman's are now the absolute best. You say "trust me". Isn't that what SWAMPS is saying? Don't be surprised at all the "challenges" when there are so many unanswered questions.

 

Mark,

We are both on the same page.

I am all for trying things and doing better than the factory.

But, I am for carefully evaluating costs / benefits / risks and putting the buck where I get a good bang for low to moderate risks.

I am not after 700hp, but I am after 1,000,000 miles and I am barely 1/4 of the way there.

For the average user (no tuning etc. needs) the Ford reman is a safe bet --- in fact, the safest bet.

For an experienced user (like you) who have done the FICM repair yourself, no doubt, you are a good bet for trying different mods.

And I trust you to both keep accurate record and report on them here.

I can't say the same for many others.

BTW: I would not call the Ford Reman a "gold standard".

Vendor(s) are in fact, working on a "gold standard" that involve essentially building a brand new FICM from the ground up.

I cannot say more, except to say that the "clean sheet" approach offers the best way to solve the FICM problems that no present solution offered "at market" can.

Hint: it involves engineering / problem solving parts that no current product fixes.

My hope is with the new products' introduction... Ford / IH will "forget" a copy of the source code somewhere, and let it become widely available so all of us can start to work on FICM tunes.

FICM tunes generally have proved to be a way to do more --- even with the Ford FICM killer doosie we all learned about.

That is the way forward --- but in the mean time... if an inexperienced user comes in... I am going to send them for a Partsguyed.com Ford reman.

 

Note to any FICM reman / rebuilders out there:

Now that I made substandard parts used for FICM rebuilds an issue (see pstrang "bible" above), if you have the intestinal fortitude, come right out and publish a statement / warranty to the effect that "no parts used in the reman /rebuild process is below OEM specs."



I am wondering how many people will open up their "hot" or "reman" FICM and find things like 105C capacitors substituted for 125C capacitors!

Suppose we used diesel fuel with 15% lower than the Factory spec cetane? (i.e. run 38 cetane number fuel on our trucks).

Or Motor Oil with a temperature rating (say flash point) 15% lower than the Ford spec?

Or... coolant?

Why is it acceptable to grossly underspec when it comes to electronics components when it is unacceptable for anything else?

 

G -

While your passion for this subject is admirable, IMO you should take your crusade directly to those involved via some other form of communication such as a telephone, email, etc. I dare say you would get more response. Besides, these forums are for exchange of information, not for calling out manufacturers.

If/when you get the information you're looking for and can show evidence to support your claims, I'm sure many folks (including myself) would love to see it in a thread dedicated to that purpose.

 

I think gearloose is correct in doing what he's doing b\c as someone who has a sick FICM i have called swamps, bulletproofdiesel and circuitboard medics asking about what they do and they are all guarded.
I guess i dont blame them but i dont want to pay $300 and up for reflowed solder.
They dont want to give the cheap ebay guy trade secrets to thus make knock offs so its hard to *actually* know what your really getting without buying from all of them and then opening them up for a look see.
Only a magazine could do that me thinks?

 

Opening it up automatically voids their warranty.

Not opening it up means you are buying on faith.

Even a magazine / test lab may have problems because changes are made in these parts without any notice, so the sample that they tested may not be the same as the sample you buy.


So, when push comes to shove, and there is no compelling reason to go for a non-factory part...

You are not a tuner after huge improvements, and just want your truck to run...

Who do you trust?

Ford Reman at a great price (Partsguyed.com) who have NEVER been known to sell a fake part.

I vote for Ed.


BTW, you can always have a Partsguyed.com part shipped to a FICM tuner (like PHP) and have them put a tune on it.


Steve:

It is like crusades about alternators, motor oil and OEM filters (that is bismic!).

LOL


PS: 6 months down the road, I may have a lead on a real "gold standard" FICM that is engineered from the ground up to be a great part....

Stay tuned.


Mark:

Yes, I am under NDA with respect to potential new FICMs.

 

Me personally, I don't see the **** to worth ratio with a 58V FICM. The benefits aren't definite enough for me to want to get one. Under the right circumstances, I'm sure they can perform better than a stock unit.

What do people expect from a 58V FICM?

How many here are running one?

 

As with the development of most mods of this type the ultimate goal was extra horsepower. It's been a long known but little published secret that the higher voltage FICM's made more horsepower. This was before the "voltage wars" started. There was actually very little difference in the majority of FICM's from the factory except that some had very slightly higher voltage than others and they seemed to make higher HP. The other benefit of improved injector stiction was simply due to a stronger magnetic field produced by the coils.

GL--you make constant references to Pstrang's article as the "bible" or "gold standard" of FICM rebuilding used. IIRC it also contains a disclaimer and information about the "substandard" parts he used. This procedure was completely experimental at the time and he states that clearly. There was a huge clamor for information from the diesel community about how to "fix" the failing FICM's in a home environment without having to rely on Ford and THEIR "substandard" parts. Here's the problem: The parts simply weren't available. Either they weren't spec'd correctly (as you've stated over and over) OR the properly spec'd parts were too large to fit in the confines of the FICM case OR they had been bought up by our Chinese "friends". Another painful fact that you may or may not be aware of is that the Ford "remans" are STILL failing as they don't really address the part(s) that were weak to start with. Swamps (at least according to them) replaces these parts with upgraded parts. What are these parts? No one seems to be able to find out or no one is willing to publish this information for previously stated reasons. I, for one, am not an EE nor do I have the financial capital to buy and tear down an upgraded FICM to find out. Would I like to know?? Hell yes I would, but I understand their reasons for keeping it a "secret".

 

If the higher voltage FICM's are making more HP, then that's because they are affecting injector PW and/or timing. Run the injectors hotter to overcome lazy spool valves, I get that. A 40+ HP difference, I don't believe it.

Has anyone ever done a comparison in a truck with a properly working set of injectors, and tested with a good 48V, and 58V? AFAIK there are only a handful of guys out there that have gone to hot FICM's when their original was working well. My argument is that most guys see a benefit because they replaced a dying FICM with one that actually works, or their injectors are coaxed into behaving better by the increased voltage.

 

Right on.

A 40hp+ difference, off a base number of 325hp, is an increase of over 12 percent.

Double digit percentage / absolute power gains from replacing a resistor?

That puts it in the league of the magnets that improve fuel economy...

Since it runs on electricity... maybe it is Serpent oil via the Serpentine belt driven alternator!


On the subject of increasing voltage coaxing things to behave well.

I once had a nearly dead 12V jeep.

Coaxed it to run first on 18V (3 6V batteries in series) and it ran like a banshee.

Then did 24V...

It lasted about 15 min before smoke started billowed out of it.

Sure... you can always push things... sure...

The question is for how long.

On another post... I noted that the 6.7 can probably do 2000ft-lbs / 1,000 hp... by my thumbnail for 5 seconds.

 

Frankly, if someone wants to use a 58V FICM, it's not my concern. It doesn't appear from the available data that it's been causing harm. If it were, we'd be seeing complaints of bad injectors from people using them. If they were more likely to fail because of substandard parts, we'd be seeing those complaints as well. So far I've seen nothing but good reports from folks using Swamps FICM's.

That being said, I don't see how a 58V FICM could increase horsepower. All the FICM does is open and close the spool valves when told by it's program and requirements given to it by the PCM. It can open them a little faster maybe, especially if they were sticking to begin with, but the amount of fuel injected depends on how long they are open and what the ICP is. I don't see how improving speed of movement of the spool valve could affect amount of fuel injected.