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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks
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building the monster, brainstorm

 
  #1  
Old 02-13-2011, 05:12 PM
tutka90
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Thumbs up building the monster, brainstorm

Okay ladies and gents, got a bit of a task to undertake, and looking for ideas...

I've got a 1956 f600 with a new process 3speed+ granny gear, and 6.800 timken rear axle. This was obviously a farm truck, and really not made to be loaded to the gills and driven 50 miles of freeway, but that's my desire for it as my new classy addition to my work fleet (now consisting of 1, 1956 ford f600

Right now it's got a 272 in it, tired and weary from the couple hundred thousands it has on it now. Throughout my escapades I've stumbled into a 76 t-bird 460, and am trying to figure out what exactly will be the best setup for a rebuild on that 460 to move the 20k truck itself, plus an additional 5-6000 trailer weight.

I'm looking for kb pistons, all the way to the exhaust pipe size. And not to make it too needy, but I'm also looking for what will provide for the best unloaded mileage as getting to the job costs fuel too obviously.

So vets, whatta ya think?
 
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:36 PM
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Just from experience when building a 460 to work hard, you need either heads with hardened valve seats or you need to have the heads cut for press in seats. I had a 460 in a 75 F250 that I regularly towed with and until I had a set of heads built with press-in seats, I rarely saw 50K miles between valve jobs. This was with a balanced rotating assy, a 270/280 split duration cam and 9.25:1 compression forged pistons.
As to fuel economy, don't get your hopes up too high, my truck seldom got more than 11 MPGs empty and around 6-7 MPG loaded. Just the nature of the beast, it will pull anything you attach to it, but maybe only from one gas station to the next.
 
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:21 PM
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Welcome to FTE.But, I just gotta ask - You weren't serious about being concerned over fuel mileage,seeing as how it's a F600,and you're contemplating that 460, and you'll be pulling a trailer - were you?LOL
 
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:43 PM
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Welcome.

Let's see some pics of the truck!!

And the F600 is one truck that was made to haul a load!

My recommendation would be dump the 460 and consider a 6.9L/7.3L IDI diesel. And a couple overdrive gears would do wonders for getting it down the road at speed. Maybe a ZF 5spd along with a Spicer/Brownie auxiliary transmission.

The diesel will give you great torque and not miserable mileage.
 
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:21 PM
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Thanks guys, the mileage was kind of subjective. I didn't expect to get more than 15, but 15 unloaded would be huge... I really want to load that thing to the gills and just go, without wanting to napalm my engine.

2011-01-06_12-37-42_703.jpg picture by tutka90 - Photobucket

This is the 600, gonna take some time this summer, and sand her down and giver a lil bondo, and some nice paint. Rear axle is rated @14k with 6.88 ratio. This thing is a complete monster, and I'm also planning to put a monster 20k pto winch on the front end.

If you can zoom in on the front bumper, look at the tow hooks
 

Last edited by tutka90; 02-13-2011 at 11:28 PM. Reason: trying to figure out how to imbed the picture...
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tutka90 View Post


Thanks guys, the mileage was kind of subjective. I didn't expect to get more than 15, but 15 unloaded would be huge... I really want to load that thing to the gills and just go, without wanting to napalm my engine.

2011-01-06_12-37-42_703.jpg picture by tutka90 - Photobucket

This is the 600, gonna take some time this summer, and sand her down and giver a lil bondo, and some nice paint. Rear axle is rated @14k with 6.88 ratio. This thing is a complete monster, and I'm also planning to put a monster 20k pto winch on the front end.

If you can zoom in on the front bumper, look at the tow hooks
Just realized that you can't see it to well, but there are 1" tick curled iron horns gusseted and bolted to the frame and bumper. I'm pretty sure they're strong.
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:16 AM
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I would definately look for a 5 speed trans with overdrive. Better yet, a engine/ trans combo from a newer truck or bus. With 6.88 gears you will grenade ANY engine at freeway speeds....
Don't forget the brakes....once you get it rolling, you gotta be able to stop it!
On the plus side, looks like it has 22.5 inch wheels?
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:25 AM
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What exactly do you mean by grenade any engine? I was under the impression that 6.88 ratio would give me all the low end grunt I would need.

And I'm not positive on the wheel size, but, just like everything else on that truck, they're enormous ...

I have been trying to figure out whether to keep the stock drums, which are like steel 5 gallon buckets, which id think would stop it even loaded to the hilt. But, do you have any suggestions about a heavier duty brake system?

In that 56 year 600, they had a 2 speed eaton differential with a 16k rating. I'm keeping my eyes open for one sitting in a farmers field.
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:39 AM
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Yep, lots of low end grunt.....not so much top end speed. At 65-70 mph (freeway speed), your RPM's would probably be 3500-4000. Stock type gas engines don't like that many R's for extended periods. Also your gas mileage would disappear. You mentioned driving 50 miles on the freeway in your original post.......
BTW, I have a 53 F600....top speed is about 55, and thats pushing it.
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:45 AM
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What kind of power plant do you have? And o you have the original tranny setup?
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tutka90 View Post
What exactly do you mean by grenade any engine? I was under the impression that 6.88 ratio would give me all the low end grunt I would need.
By grenade he means blow up, destroy, kaboom. Steep gears will over rev an engine at highway speeds with out OD gears. The 6.88 is a very steep gear. It means lots of off the line acceleration but a limited top speed. With 6.88 gears you'll need a OD gear to get any where close to highway speeds safely( engine wise ) .
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:57 AM
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I see said the blindman thank you, u guys've been most helpful!

Now another question, would i find od gears in the regular ole tranny, or would that be part of an auxiliary transmission setup?
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tutka90 View Post
What kind of power plant do you have? And o you have the original tranny setup?
My '53 has a 390 and T-18 4 speed......all 4 speeds and some 5 speeds (direct) are 1 to 1 output. No overdrive.

So for highway speeds, you have a couple options....overdrive trans, or change the rear end to more friendly gears. Not sure if aux trans have overdrive or not, but that may work too.

For my truck, I would like to find a later truck chassis and either swap components, or swap cabs etc.
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:32 PM
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The spicer/brownie box 3 & 4spds have atleast one under drive gear, 1 direct drive and an overdrive. I'm going to be putting one in my 91 F-Super Duty ( F450 ) that has 5.13 gears with 235/85/16 tires.

On the F600 you could run two overdrives and be able to drive it anywhere. You just want to make sure the suspension, steering and brakes are all good to go before you go barreling down the highway with a truck that size!!
 
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:03 PM
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Howdy,


Well, you and I are doing the same thing!!

I have a 55 F-600 that I'm putting a 292 + E4OD automatic in. It's NOT going to be a hot rod but I do think that, with the (balanced, ported) 292 + the heavy duty automatic trans + the 5.33:1/8.11:1 2 speed axle, I'll tow/haul anything that it hauled before!!


I wanted to stay with the Y-block to keep some resemblance to originality.


If I had it to do all over again (and I may still do this) I would install a Cummins 6BT + either the same automatic or a ZF-S-542/547 or a ZF-6speed.


You have some unique problems going on there if you decide to stay with your current axle. You're limited to either a 5.83:1 or 6.xx:1 ...2 speed axle.

With my present gearing and 9.00-20 tires, I expect about 2100 RPM at 60mph. (with the E4OD trans in OD....0.71:1)

The ONLY way you'll get some sort of mileage on the flat freeway (empty) will be to turn the engine close to 2000 RPM..... The only way to do that is to have some sort of OD.

Your choice of transmissions will HAVE to include those that are able to accept a tail mounted parking brake. (unless you swap out the rear axle......one member here used a DANA 80 which is a good choice that you might be able to adapt wheel type parking brakes)

Running 2 over drives might work but consider that if you keep whatever axle you have (and it's a 6.88:1 axle), you have 37" dia tires, and you want to run down the freeway at 65,

Your drive shafts will be turning 4000+ RPM!! as will your pinion gear.

Unless they're perfectly balanced, you're NOT going to want to run at freeway speeds very much!


You also have a single circuit brake system (that, in my humble opinion) should be changed to dual circuit. You want to be able to safely stop that 9000 lb missile going down the highway.

I will probably be using a HydroMAX system that was used on many medium duty trucks well into the90's.


I had a 460 that I seriously considered putting in mine. (it came out of my boat!)

You can get an E4OD automatic trans right out of an F450 Superduty that will bolt right up to a 460 too by the way. AND if it's an EFI 460, the ECM for the engine will also control the trans. (I have an after market programmable ECM for my E4OD (which came out of an F450 btw)

There's a LOT of other stuff to consider.


My suggestion is that you first find yourself a GOOD DANA 80 rear axle and a matching front axle so the bolt patterns match.

The newer axles will allow you to use far more modern brakes.

I put the cart before the horse and bought wheels, tires and did my original brakes before I discovered that I should have just dumped the entire front and rear axles and got newer medium duty stuff!! That way I could have went to disc brakes, and 22.5" wheels tires etc!!


What I have will work well but it's all the old stuff....
 

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