Tuning our Ford OBDI EEC IV - QH/Tweecer/Others
#121
08-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Tuning our Ford OBDI EEC IV - QH/Tweecer/Others
Adjusting for higher displacement is just typing in a number. Getting the EEC to work with your engine is the easy part. Getting the torque tables that control the transmission are not likely to be a huge deal. You set up what behavior you want and run with it.
I see your biggest issues being the learning curve associated with getting comfortable with the strategy itself.
I am sorry you got a TwEECerRT, but for $150, that probably is tough to turn down. Although if I had the choice, the Moates QH for $250 would've been worth the additional $100 to me. But that's me knowing what I expect to see. As someone new to tuning, I probably would've made the same decision.
As long as the EEC you are using is capable of controlling an E4OD and the tranny is built to handle the torque of the E4OD, I'd say you are fine there. Although any cam with an LSA of 110 sounds a bit more aggressive than I would've expected for a BB. I would've thought a cam with a 114 LSA, 112 at the smallest, would've been more what you were looking for. But with a 460, you have plenty. It's just not as much torque as you could have for a truck. 110 LSA is what I expect for people doing racing. But I'm also saying that without having any of the other specs. LSA is only 1 of the important specs you need to really classify a cam.
I see your biggest issues being the learning curve associated with getting comfortable with the strategy itself.
I am sorry you got a TwEECerRT, but for $150, that probably is tough to turn down. Although if I had the choice, the Moates QH for $250 would've been worth the additional $100 to me. But that's me knowing what I expect to see. As someone new to tuning, I probably would've made the same decision.
As long as the EEC you are using is capable of controlling an E4OD and the tranny is built to handle the torque of the E4OD, I'd say you are fine there. Although any cam with an LSA of 110 sounds a bit more aggressive than I would've expected for a BB. I would've thought a cam with a 114 LSA, 112 at the smallest, would've been more what you were looking for. But with a 460, you have plenty. It's just not as much torque as you could have for a truck. 110 LSA is what I expect for people doing racing. But I'm also saying that without having any of the other specs. LSA is only 1 of the important specs you need to really classify a cam.
Cam specs:
DURATION AS ADVERTISED INTAKE: 272° EXHAUST: 282°
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE: 194° EXHAUST: 204°
LIFT @ CAM (Lobe) INTAKE: 0.265" EXHAUST: 0.28"
LIFT @ VALVE INTAKE: 0.46" EXHAUST: 0.48"
LOBE SEPERATION: 110° INTAKE CENTERLINE: 105° IDLE VACUUM @ 1000 RPM: 15"
The information below is for verification of
opening and closing events.
INTAKE TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 8° ATDC Closes: 22° ABDC
EXHAUST TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 37° BBDC Closes: 13° BTDC
OPTIONAL VALVE SPRINGS: #5867
CAM FEATURES: Produces 455 ft.-lbs. when matched with #2166 intake and stock heads.
INSTALLATION NOTES: Use Edelbrock Performer-Plus Timing Chain and Gear Set #7830. Do not use late model timing chain and gear sets that are designed for emission-controlled engines. These timing sets are machined in a retarded position and are not recommended for this camshaft installation. Edelbrock Timing Sets feature three keyways for specified timing selection.
Footnote 1: Do not use dual valve springs. Use only recommended stock or Edelbrock Sure Seat Valve Springs #5867
Footnote 2: Use stock ratio rocker arms only.
#122
08-08-2012, 06:16 PM
Shift times are determined simply by TPS vs. Road speed. They're pretty simple, and do not have that many data points.
The stock ford E4OD programming is terrible on pretty much every engine. The smaller engines shift at a marginally higher RPM. The stock 302/E4OD HOG1 programming worked reasonably well on my buddy's 460, about the same as the stock SD stuff. In fact, the 2-3rd WOT shift RPM on the stock 302 programming was 4400 RPM, the 1-2 was only 4000 RPM.
He ended up tuning it to his preference though. His preference was to have it downshift quite readily instead of lug the engin
HOG1 uses the AHACB strategy - which is the same one the VEX1 computer uses, just a different calibration.
FYI, the AHACB strategy has no provision for converter lock up in 1st. The E4OD programming documentation from Ford supports this too. Lock up is normally available in 2nd-4th.
The stock ford E4OD programming is terrible on pretty much every engine. The smaller engines shift at a marginally higher RPM. The stock 302/E4OD HOG1 programming worked reasonably well on my buddy's 460, about the same as the stock SD stuff. In fact, the 2-3rd WOT shift RPM on the stock 302 programming was 4400 RPM, the 1-2 was only 4000 RPM.
He ended up tuning it to his preference though. His preference was to have it downshift quite readily instead of lug the engin
HOG1 uses the AHACB strategy - which is the same one the VEX1 computer uses, just a different calibration.
FYI, the AHACB strategy has no provision for converter lock up in 1st. The E4OD programming documentation from Ford supports this too. Lock up is normally available in 2nd-4th.
#123
08-09-2012, 06:29 AM
The .050" duration on that cam is what I'd expect for a BB cam. But the .006" (off-the-seat) durations are a bit wider than I would've guessed meaning this cam has a very mild ramp rate. If there's a lot of lash in the lifters (or squish if they are hydraulic), a lot of that'll get taken up. I'm just not used to lower RPM "torque" cams not having that narrow of an LSA. But given the conservative durations, I guess it evens out. It does have 5 degrees advance ground into it which also will be a big torque adder. But this cam will probably nose-dive in torque very shortly after 5000 RPMs. That might be of concern for someone building a 302 but hardly a big deal for a 460 BB which won't need to rev any higher than that.
Just how high are you bringing the compression up? With this mild of a cam, you may end up with a Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) that's higher than pump gas can handle. That's not hard to do with mild cams. 11:1 and pump gas are quite possible on radical cams. But mild torque cams and premium aren't going to work well past about 9.5:1. If the heads are aluminum, you could edge out 10:1. Although it'd be a bit low for E85, Propane, or CNG.
Just how high are you bringing the compression up? With this mild of a cam, you may end up with a Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) that's higher than pump gas can handle. That's not hard to do with mild cams. 11:1 and pump gas are quite possible on radical cams. But mild torque cams and premium aren't going to work well past about 9.5:1. If the heads are aluminum, you could edge out 10:1. Although it'd be a bit low for E85, Propane, or CNG.
#124
08-10-2012, 07:44 PM
I am using the shallower dish pistons from the EFI engines, a set of F3TE heads and will be decking the block. The EEC I am using, WAY1 is originally for a 302 w/E4OD and does have knock sensor capability. I plan on installing one in the back of the block in the webbing behind the intake. If I need it I can enable it. I have run a number of carbureted BB (460) engines up around the 9.5cr level with no problems on pump gas.
I should mention that due to where I am located, first, no emissions check, just a visual, second, the truck, being a 1986 over 8500 GVWR model is non-catalyst, and third, I can update the engine to a newer one and still need only meet the requirements for the truck when new. I actually plan to keep the converter locked longer in normal use to reduce heat buildup in the transmission.
I should mention that due to where I am located, first, no emissions check, just a visual, second, the truck, being a 1986 over 8500 GVWR model is non-catalyst, and third, I can update the engine to a newer one and still need only meet the requirements for the truck when new. I actually plan to keep the converter locked longer in normal use to reduce heat buildup in the transmission.
#125
08-10-2012, 08:46 PM
That calibration code is an EEC-4/OBD-1. I believe that ECU also has DTC output to use with some dataloggers. And like other MAF 302 types, they're programmed with a pretty heavy tip-in-timing retard. You can reduce or disable that and program the ACT/ECT timing retard to pull timing as needed. IMO, with those tables tuned properly, and with good fuel, you shouldn't need a knock sensor.
#126
08-10-2012, 09:37 PM
#127
08-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I plan on using the 93 up and decking as any block after 1971 had a taller deck height. The short block is from the 90 parts truck and needs rebuilding anyway (bad rings in #5). Matt, the WAY1 does support live data, either through the TwEECer RT or my Solus pro.
Last edited by 85lebaront2; 08-10-2012 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Additional information.
#128
08-11-2012, 05:41 AM
Do they make a cord to extend the J3 out to a remote location?
I envision a 'card' like the Quarterhorse, mounted in a plastic, portable housing, with a pigtail coming out of each end. One wire going to the J3 extender mounted neatly under the dash or in the glove box, and the other wire going to a laptop.
This way I can use one QH on all of my Ford EFI vehicles with ease. I only have to pull each PCM once to install the J3 extender, rather than over and over to move the QH card. It's either that, or buy a seperate QH for each vehicle $$$!
This way I can grab my laptop and the QH box, and I can jump from one vehcle to the next in a flash.
I envision a 'card' like the Quarterhorse, mounted in a plastic, portable housing, with a pigtail coming out of each end. One wire going to the J3 extender mounted neatly under the dash or in the glove box, and the other wire going to a laptop.
This way I can use one QH on all of my Ford EFI vehicles with ease. I only have to pull each PCM once to install the J3 extender, rather than over and over to move the QH card. It's either that, or buy a seperate QH for each vehicle $$$!
This way I can grab my laptop and the QH box, and I can jump from one vehcle to the next in a flash.
Any luck finding an extension cable for the j3 port.
73fomo had input and interest in this also. Hmmm. I'll need to look also. Good idea.
#129
08-16-2014, 07:18 PM
Is anyone familiar with this chip?
1992 FORD F250 CHIPS
When you need to take your big truck to a whole new level, be sure to add an F250 performance chip. All of these F250 chips are going to fit your truck perfectly and will improve the throttle response and smooth out your acceleration. All of these F250 power chips are warranted for 10 years and will keep your engine in great shape. Installation of these F250 performance chips is extremely simple. All you need to install an F250 chip is a couple of hand tools and about 20 minutes. Our entire lineup of F250 racing chips will come with complete illustrated instructions that will outline every step needed to install these in your truck.
Ford F250 Performance Chips - Amazing Ford F250 Chips
1992 FORD F250 CHIPS
When you need to take your big truck to a whole new level, be sure to add an F250 performance chip. All of these F250 chips are going to fit your truck perfectly and will improve the throttle response and smooth out your acceleration. All of these F250 power chips are warranted for 10 years and will keep your engine in great shape. Installation of these F250 performance chips is extremely simple. All you need to install an F250 chip is a couple of hand tools and about 20 minutes. Our entire lineup of F250 racing chips will come with complete illustrated instructions that will outline every step needed to install these in your truck.
Ford F250 Performance Chips - Amazing Ford F250 Chips
#130
08-16-2014, 07:43 PM
#131
08-16-2014, 07:56 PM
Reminds me of what the street stock racers do, cheat the ECT or IAT so the system runs richer. Same thing we used to do to the old Bosch D-Jetronics when they ran too lean. Electronics store 10 or 15 turn helipot wired so that one way makes the EEC think it's still getting colder air, the other makes it think it's getting warmer air.
FWIW, in closed loop, the O2 sensor controls the mixture.
FWIW, in closed loop, the O2 sensor controls the mixture.
#132
08-16-2014, 08:13 PM
Yes, that's exactly what this thing does. Cheat the system and trick it into running differently. They say it won't harm the engine, but the net is full of horror stories. Even if only 1% of those stories are true, I want nothing to do with those "tuners". Matter of fact, I have one from another company right here in front of me! Guaranteed to give you "Mind blowing performance and unsurpassed fuel savings". A little internet search revealed the true story. So I popped open the case and sure enough, all it is is a $0.12 resistor designed to alter a signal and trick the computer. After all the reviews and research, I can't believe I almost put this thing on my truck!
#133
08-16-2014, 08:57 PM
#134
08-16-2014, 09:06 PM