Forgot to plug in, won't start, but it is 5 hours later.
#16
02-02-2011, 04:21 PM
#17
02-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
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#18
02-02-2011, 08:38 PM
#20
02-02-2011, 08:52 PM
#21
02-02-2011, 08:53 PM
#22
02-04-2011, 06:18 AM
My 2005 F250 PSD is not only my first pickup truck, it's my first diesel and I bought it when I moved from Southern California to Cody, Wyoming.
I've never plugged in my truck and it has cold soaked in -28F for eight to ten hours at a time. I've never has a problem with gelling while I've seen dozens of locals gelled up and stranded.
I did a lot of research and concluded there are enough misconceptions about diesel fuel and low temperatures to make a two hour Mythbusters special.
There is an ASTM standard for winter diesel. THE STANDARD VARIES DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
In Cody, Wyoming, the ASTM COLD POUR POINT DIESEL FUEL STANDARD IS:
OCT +24.8F
NOV +5F
DEC -0.4F
JAN -14.8F
FEB -2.2F
MAR +3.2F
This means that diesel coming out of the pump is "good" for those temperatures. To bad those numbers have nothing to do with actually working in your PSD because just pouring isn't good enough to get through the filters in your truck. Passing the ATSM test doesn't mean passing through your filters.
Additionally, what happens at a low volume station with half an underground tank of October fuel when the November fuel is delivered? Do you actually think the station's tank is empty on Oct 31 and refilled on Nov 1st?
The back of a Power Service anti gel bottle reads "lowers pour point up to 40F." I First, pour point is not cold filter plug point. Honey will "pour" out of a jar and so will thickened diesel, but it's unusable. Second, what the hell does "up tp 40 F" mean??
I spoke with a PS chemist and he sent me weekly test reports on fuel samples from refineries in Montana and Wyoming. Winter fuel performance depends on many factors. Crude from different wells reacts differently to anti gel treatments. Different refineries use different processes to refine oil and the process has an effect on anti gel treatment.
Treating diesel diesel fuel from refinery A in week #1 can depress the cold filter plug point 5F. In week #2, the same treatment may only depress the cold filter plug point 1F. Week three fuel from refinery A cold respond with a 30F depression in cold filter plug point. Same refinery, same process, blended to the same ASTM standard, but different batches of crude delivered to that same refinery react differently to the same additional anti gel treatment.
Think about that. You use anti gel in your fuel and you buy it at the same station. Week 1 October fuel could work down to -40F, week 2 October fuel could be good to -2F and week 3 fuel could be good for only +20F. Double dosing anti gel produces irregular results too.
On top of that, your station probably gets fuel from several different refineries. There are no Shell or Exxon refineries close to Cody, Wyoming. Where do the Shell and Exxon stations get there fuel and how is it treated at the distribution point? I don't know.
I do know my neighbor owns a Conoco station. I asked him about fuel and he told me that he is contractually obligated to buy only from Conoco because they have a refinery close by. That's good because he has only one source for diesel. My neighbor confirmed he has to pay extra for winterized diesel. That's diesel treated beyond the above ASTM standards.
I called Conoco and spoke with the person in charge of diesel fuels who confirmed everything my neighbor told me and everything the chemist at Power Service said. Additionally he told me that if a Conoco dealer pays extra for winterized fuel, Conoco blends and tests each batch to work at -25F without additional anti gel treatment.
I ALWAYS buy fuel from my neighbor's Conoco station because I independently verified where it comes from and how it is winterized beyond ASTM standards by the oil company.
Guess what? I still treat the Conoco winterized fuel with PS white bottle anti gel. If I have to buy diesel from another station, I always add anti gel and double dose if the weather forecast drops below the ASTM chart.
To recap:
Winter diesel is blended to different ASTM standards for different parts of the country. The standards change for each cold month.
Diesel fuel reacts differently to additional anti gel treatment depending on the process used to refine it and where the crude comes from. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES THAT ANTI GEL TREATMENT WILL MAKE ANY DIESEL FUEL WORK AT ANY TEMPERATURE, PERIOD.
Unless you know for a fact that your station has one source for diesel and that the station pays extra for winterized fuel (treated beyond the ASTM chart specs for your particular area) and you know for a fact what that standard is, using diesel in cold temperatures is a crap shoot.
I always treat with anti gel. If I buy fuel from anyplace other than my neighbors Conoco, I add anti gel and double dose if temps are forecasted below the ASTM chart.
So far, it's worked.....
By the way, one winter day I was in my local Ford dealership and saw a really pissed-off Powerstroke owner. He was yelling about his one month old PSD crapping out on the side of the road. The service manager was so mad, he refused to talk with the customer. I talked to the customer who told me he installed a long range auxiliary tank in his truck and visted his daughter in Arizona. Yes, he filled up with Arizona diesel in January and got back to Cody where it promptly gelled up.
I've never plugged in my truck and it has cold soaked in -28F for eight to ten hours at a time. I've never has a problem with gelling while I've seen dozens of locals gelled up and stranded.
I did a lot of research and concluded there are enough misconceptions about diesel fuel and low temperatures to make a two hour Mythbusters special.
There is an ASTM standard for winter diesel. THE STANDARD VARIES DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
In Cody, Wyoming, the ASTM COLD POUR POINT DIESEL FUEL STANDARD IS:
OCT +24.8F
NOV +5F
DEC -0.4F
JAN -14.8F
FEB -2.2F
MAR +3.2F
This means that diesel coming out of the pump is "good" for those temperatures. To bad those numbers have nothing to do with actually working in your PSD because just pouring isn't good enough to get through the filters in your truck. Passing the ATSM test doesn't mean passing through your filters.
Additionally, what happens at a low volume station with half an underground tank of October fuel when the November fuel is delivered? Do you actually think the station's tank is empty on Oct 31 and refilled on Nov 1st?
The back of a Power Service anti gel bottle reads "lowers pour point up to 40F." I First, pour point is not cold filter plug point. Honey will "pour" out of a jar and so will thickened diesel, but it's unusable. Second, what the hell does "up tp 40 F" mean??
I spoke with a PS chemist and he sent me weekly test reports on fuel samples from refineries in Montana and Wyoming. Winter fuel performance depends on many factors. Crude from different wells reacts differently to anti gel treatments. Different refineries use different processes to refine oil and the process has an effect on anti gel treatment.
Treating diesel diesel fuel from refinery A in week #1 can depress the cold filter plug point 5F. In week #2, the same treatment may only depress the cold filter plug point 1F. Week three fuel from refinery A cold respond with a 30F depression in cold filter plug point. Same refinery, same process, blended to the same ASTM standard, but different batches of crude delivered to that same refinery react differently to the same additional anti gel treatment.
Think about that. You use anti gel in your fuel and you buy it at the same station. Week 1 October fuel could work down to -40F, week 2 October fuel could be good to -2F and week 3 fuel could be good for only +20F. Double dosing anti gel produces irregular results too.
On top of that, your station probably gets fuel from several different refineries. There are no Shell or Exxon refineries close to Cody, Wyoming. Where do the Shell and Exxon stations get there fuel and how is it treated at the distribution point? I don't know.
I do know my neighbor owns a Conoco station. I asked him about fuel and he told me that he is contractually obligated to buy only from Conoco because they have a refinery close by. That's good because he has only one source for diesel. My neighbor confirmed he has to pay extra for winterized diesel. That's diesel treated beyond the above ASTM standards.
I called Conoco and spoke with the person in charge of diesel fuels who confirmed everything my neighbor told me and everything the chemist at Power Service said. Additionally he told me that if a Conoco dealer pays extra for winterized fuel, Conoco blends and tests each batch to work at -25F without additional anti gel treatment.
I ALWAYS buy fuel from my neighbor's Conoco station because I independently verified where it comes from and how it is winterized beyond ASTM standards by the oil company.
Guess what? I still treat the Conoco winterized fuel with PS white bottle anti gel. If I have to buy diesel from another station, I always add anti gel and double dose if the weather forecast drops below the ASTM chart.
To recap:
Winter diesel is blended to different ASTM standards for different parts of the country. The standards change for each cold month.
Diesel fuel reacts differently to additional anti gel treatment depending on the process used to refine it and where the crude comes from. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES THAT ANTI GEL TREATMENT WILL MAKE ANY DIESEL FUEL WORK AT ANY TEMPERATURE, PERIOD.
Unless you know for a fact that your station has one source for diesel and that the station pays extra for winterized fuel (treated beyond the ASTM chart specs for your particular area) and you know for a fact what that standard is, using diesel in cold temperatures is a crap shoot.
I always treat with anti gel. If I buy fuel from anyplace other than my neighbors Conoco, I add anti gel and double dose if temps are forecasted below the ASTM chart.
So far, it's worked.....
By the way, one winter day I was in my local Ford dealership and saw a really pissed-off Powerstroke owner. He was yelling about his one month old PSD crapping out on the side of the road. The service manager was so mad, he refused to talk with the customer. I talked to the customer who told me he installed a long range auxiliary tank in his truck and visted his daughter in Arizona. Yes, he filled up with Arizona diesel in January and got back to Cody where it promptly gelled up.
#23
02-04-2011, 09:32 AM
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My 2005 F250 PSD is not only my first pickup truck, it's my first diesel and I bought it when I moved from Southern California to Cody, Wyoming.
I've never plugged in my truck and it has cold soaked in -28F for eight to ten hours at a time. I've never has a problem with gelling while I've seen dozens of locals gelled up and stranded.
I did a lot of research and concluded there are enough misconceptions about diesel fuel and low temperatures to make a two hour Mythbusters special.
There is an ASTM standard for winter diesel. THE STANDARD VARIES DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
In Cody, Wyoming, the ASTM COLD POUR POINT DIESEL FUEL STANDARD IS:
OCT +24.8F
NOV +5F
DEC -0.4F
JAN -14.8F
FEB -2.2F
MAR +3.2F
This means that diesel coming out of the pump is "good" for those temperatures. To bad those numbers have nothing to do with actually working in your PSD because just pouring isn't good enough to get through the filters in your truck. Passing the ATSM test doesn't mean passing through your filters.
Additionally, what happens at a low volume station with half an underground tank of October fuel when the November fuel is delivered? Do you actually think the station's tank is empty on Oct 31 and refilled on Nov 1st?
The back of a Power Service anti gel bottle reads "lowers pour point up to 40F." I First, pour point is not cold filter plug point. Honey will "pour" out of a jar and so will thickened diesel, but it's unusable. Second, what the hell does "up tp 40 F" mean??
I spoke with a PS chemist and he sent me weekly test reports on fuel samples from refineries in Montana and Wyoming. Winter fuel performance depends on many factors. Crude from different wells reacts differently to anti gel treatments. Different refineries use different processes to refine oil and the process has an effect on anti gel treatment.
Treating diesel diesel fuel from refinery A in week #1 can depress the cold filter plug point 5F. In week #2, the same treatment may only depress the cold filter plug point 1F. Week three fuel from refinery A cold respond with a 30F depression in cold filter plug point. Same refinery, same process, blended to the same ASTM standard, but different batches of crude delivered to that same refinery react differently to the same additional anti gel treatment.
Think about that. You use anti gel in your fuel and you buy it at the same station. Week 1 October fuel could work down to -40F, week 2 October fuel could be good to -2F and week 3 fuel could be good for only +20F. Double dosing anti gel produces irregular results too.
On top of that, your station probably gets fuel from several different refineries. There are no Shell or Exxon refineries close to Cody, Wyoming. Where do the Shell and Exxon stations get there fuel and how is it treated at the distribution point? I don't know.
I do know my neighbor owns a Conoco station. I asked him about fuel and he told me that he is contractually obligated to buy only from Conoco because they have a refinery close by. That's good because he has only one source for diesel. My neighbor confirmed he has to pay extra for winterized diesel. That's diesel treated beyond the above ASTM standards.
I called Conoco and spoke with the person in charge of diesel fuels who confirmed everything my neighbor told me and everything the chemist at Power Service said. Additionally he told me that if a Conoco dealer pays extra for winterized fuel, Conoco blends and tests each batch to work at -25F without additional anti gel treatment.
I ALWAYS buy fuel from my neighbor's Conoco station because I independently verified where it comes from and how it is winterized beyond ASTM standards by the oil company.
Guess what? I still treat the Conoco winterized fuel with PS white bottle anti gel. If I have to buy diesel from another station, I always add anti gel and double dose if the weather forecast drops below the ASTM chart.
To recap:
Winter diesel is blended to different ASTM standards for different parts of the country. The standards change for each cold month.
Diesel fuel reacts differently to additional anti gel treatment depending on the process used to refine it and where the crude comes from. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES THAT ANTI GEL TREATMENT WILL MAKE ANY DIESEL FUEL WORK AT ANY TEMPERATURE, PERIOD.
Unless you know for a fact that your station has one source for diesel and that the station pays extra for winterized fuel (treated beyond the ASTM chart specs for your particular area) and you know for a fact what that standard is, using diesel in cold temperatures is a crap shoot.
I always treat with anti gel. If I buy fuel from anyplace other than my neighbors Conoco, I add anti gel and double dose if temps are forecasted below the ASTM chart.
So far, it's worked.....
By the way, one winter day I was in my local Ford dealership and saw a really pissed-off Powerstroke owner. He was yelling about his one month old PSD crapping out on the side of the road. The service manager was so mad, he refused to talk with the customer. I talked to the customer who told me he installed a long range auxiliary tank in his truck and visted his daughter in Arizona. Yes, he filled up with Arizona diesel in January and got back to Cody where it promptly gelled up.
I've never plugged in my truck and it has cold soaked in -28F for eight to ten hours at a time. I've never has a problem with gelling while I've seen dozens of locals gelled up and stranded.
I did a lot of research and concluded there are enough misconceptions about diesel fuel and low temperatures to make a two hour Mythbusters special.
There is an ASTM standard for winter diesel. THE STANDARD VARIES DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
In Cody, Wyoming, the ASTM COLD POUR POINT DIESEL FUEL STANDARD IS:
OCT +24.8F
NOV +5F
DEC -0.4F
JAN -14.8F
FEB -2.2F
MAR +3.2F
This means that diesel coming out of the pump is "good" for those temperatures. To bad those numbers have nothing to do with actually working in your PSD because just pouring isn't good enough to get through the filters in your truck. Passing the ATSM test doesn't mean passing through your filters.
Additionally, what happens at a low volume station with half an underground tank of October fuel when the November fuel is delivered? Do you actually think the station's tank is empty on Oct 31 and refilled on Nov 1st?
The back of a Power Service anti gel bottle reads "lowers pour point up to 40F." I First, pour point is not cold filter plug point. Honey will "pour" out of a jar and so will thickened diesel, but it's unusable. Second, what the hell does "up tp 40 F" mean??
I spoke with a PS chemist and he sent me weekly test reports on fuel samples from refineries in Montana and Wyoming. Winter fuel performance depends on many factors. Crude from different wells reacts differently to anti gel treatments. Different refineries use different processes to refine oil and the process has an effect on anti gel treatment.
Treating diesel diesel fuel from refinery A in week #1 can depress the cold filter plug point 5F. In week #2, the same treatment may only depress the cold filter plug point 1F. Week three fuel from refinery A cold respond with a 30F depression in cold filter plug point. Same refinery, same process, blended to the same ASTM standard, but different batches of crude delivered to that same refinery react differently to the same additional anti gel treatment.
Think about that. You use anti gel in your fuel and you buy it at the same station. Week 1 October fuel could work down to -40F, week 2 October fuel could be good to -2F and week 3 fuel could be good for only +20F. Double dosing anti gel produces irregular results too.
On top of that, your station probably gets fuel from several different refineries. There are no Shell or Exxon refineries close to Cody, Wyoming. Where do the Shell and Exxon stations get there fuel and how is it treated at the distribution point? I don't know.
I do know my neighbor owns a Conoco station. I asked him about fuel and he told me that he is contractually obligated to buy only from Conoco because they have a refinery close by. That's good because he has only one source for diesel. My neighbor confirmed he has to pay extra for winterized diesel. That's diesel treated beyond the above ASTM standards.
I called Conoco and spoke with the person in charge of diesel fuels who confirmed everything my neighbor told me and everything the chemist at Power Service said. Additionally he told me that if a Conoco dealer pays extra for winterized fuel, Conoco blends and tests each batch to work at -25F without additional anti gel treatment.
I ALWAYS buy fuel from my neighbor's Conoco station because I independently verified where it comes from and how it is winterized beyond ASTM standards by the oil company.
Guess what? I still treat the Conoco winterized fuel with PS white bottle anti gel. If I have to buy diesel from another station, I always add anti gel and double dose if the weather forecast drops below the ASTM chart.
To recap:
Winter diesel is blended to different ASTM standards for different parts of the country. The standards change for each cold month.
Diesel fuel reacts differently to additional anti gel treatment depending on the process used to refine it and where the crude comes from. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES THAT ANTI GEL TREATMENT WILL MAKE ANY DIESEL FUEL WORK AT ANY TEMPERATURE, PERIOD.
Unless you know for a fact that your station has one source for diesel and that the station pays extra for winterized fuel (treated beyond the ASTM chart specs for your particular area) and you know for a fact what that standard is, using diesel in cold temperatures is a crap shoot.
I always treat with anti gel. If I buy fuel from anyplace other than my neighbors Conoco, I add anti gel and double dose if temps are forecasted below the ASTM chart.
So far, it's worked.....
By the way, one winter day I was in my local Ford dealership and saw a really pissed-off Powerstroke owner. He was yelling about his one month old PSD crapping out on the side of the road. The service manager was so mad, he refused to talk with the customer. I talked to the customer who told me he installed a long range auxiliary tank in his truck and visted his daughter in Arizona. Yes, he filled up with Arizona diesel in January and got back to Cody where it promptly gelled up.
#24
02-04-2011, 10:39 AM
A couple of comments to a good post...
You can't assume that your stations fuel will actually meet ASTM standards...
The reasons stated above is the reason I use an additive (Stanadyne) religiously. That is to keep the water level in my fuel system as low as possible all the time...in case I happen to get a tank that isn't as dry as it should be.
You can't assume that your stations fuel will actually meet ASTM standards...
The reasons stated above is the reason I use an additive (Stanadyne) religiously. That is to keep the water level in my fuel system as low as possible all the time...in case I happen to get a tank that isn't as dry as it should be.
#25
02-04-2011, 05:57 PM
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
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It was warmer today, it started for a few seconds and died, will not start again. Fuel and bubbles are visible when I have the under the hood fuel filter cap off, and the key on. I removed and reinserted the frame-rail filter. What the hell?
A couple things I wonder are; when I remove the frame rail filter will any water come out too? My 6mm plug is stripped.
Could the glow plugs be the problem? Is there a fuse?
A couple things I wonder are; when I remove the frame rail filter will any water come out too? My 6mm plug is stripped.
Could the glow plugs be the problem? Is there a fuse?
#26
02-04-2011, 07:08 PM
#28
02-04-2011, 07:22 PM
If you have a lot of water, yes - removing the fuel filter will dump water also. the primary filter has a teflon water bloc media (like gore-tex). You will still have water in the water removal sump until you drain it (therefore the WIF light will stay on).
The WATER IN FUEL light will come on when approximately 0.2 pints (100 cc) of water accumulates in the module.
The WATER IN FUEL light will come on when approximately 0.2 pints (100 cc) of water accumulates in the module.