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F250 Clutch SMF Vs. DMF

 
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:42 PM
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F250 Clutch SMF Vs. DMF

Ok, im lookin for thoughts on this one. i have an '88 F250 4x4 5 speed. the clutch is startin to go so im planning on replaceing it this spring. heres the deal. i have no idea what condition the clutch or flywheel is in. i have been concitering converting to a SMF flywheel. whats your thoughts on the subject and any specific brands i should go with? ive heard the SMF changes the way the trans shifts, both good and bad.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:02 AM
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the ZF5 transmissions were designed to run off a dual mass flywheel clutch. the diesel engine creates torque spikes where the ZF5 itself was not designed to absorb them that job was left to the dual mass flywheel in the clutch. single mass flywheel will over time kill your transmission. might take years but it will happen..... i would replace the clutch with another dual mass flywheel setup if i were you.

when i replace mine im going to be giving this one a try
Advance Auto Parts: New Clutch Set with New Dual-Mass Flywheel by Perfection Clutch - Part MU3000-1DK
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:02 AM
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I'll give you my .02 on the dual mass POS that they used with the ZF. As you see I'm not a fan of them.The center bearing can go out of them and it will throw it out of balance. It happened to my stroke and resulted in a cracked bell on the tranny. You can get the conversion kit that includes everything to switch over to the single mass system, for less money than a replacement dual mass flywheel. Go up to the 94.5-97 stroke forum and do a search on the dual mass and see what they have to say about it. Yes the zf was designed for the dual mass but it will operate just as well with the single, with a lighter peddle. I have converted 5 trucks to the single mass set up with no ill results. I do pull heavy with them.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:47 AM
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from what ive been told, the DMF gives smoother operation and smoother shifts, what exactly is the SMF harder on, just the bearings, gears, or all of the above. through Napa a SMF was around 170 bucks where a new replacement DMF was just under a grand.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:58 PM
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I upgraded to the SMF, I used "LUK" brand. I have had no issues. It seems fine, no other noises, shifts perfectly. I don't use my clutch like normal people though. I use it for taking off and downshifting sometimes. Mine shifts gears flawlessly w/o it. Just pay attention to the truck and it tells me when to shift. I pull 8000 lb skid steer with it and an 8000 lb track hoe as well. I pull gooseneck and bumper trailers all the time. My truck would be pissed if there wasn't a load behind it. My damn rear end went out though...LOL I just took it into the shop today. Guy told me he would have it back out tomorrow. LOL
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Country_boy_2007 View Post
from what ive been told, the DMF gives smoother operation and smoother shifts, what exactly is the SMF harder on, just the bearings, gears, or all of the above. through Napa a SMF was around 170 bucks where a new replacement DMF was just under a grand.
Single mass is harder on everything in the transmission. the dual mass is not a POS mine has 240,000 on it and still shift's flawlessly. its all in how its used. proper shifting will allow it to last longer than "dumping the clutch" "riding the clutch" worn out master/slave cylinders ect. also the conversion kit which you would need to convert to single mass runs between 500-700 depending on brand while the replacement dual mass at advance auto is 789.

no one can deny that converting to single mass will in time kill a ZF5 transmission. it may take several years hell maybe 10 years but it will EVENTUALLY happen. many complaints about gear rollover noise after converting to single mass as well.

if you want a trans that was designed for use with a single mass use a T-18,T-19 transmission they are also good transmissions
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:11 PM
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I have yet to see anyone on these FTE forums saying that a single mass flywheel conversion has killed their zf trasmission. I learned how to drive on a manual transmission 45 years ago so I know how to shift one. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...48+5999999dual mass setup, http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+5999999single mass. for the money I"d go with the latter. It's your call.
Edit I can't get the links to work, but the dual mass unit runs $994 for everything, the single mass conversion is $529.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:23 PM
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Yes my "LUK" single mass was 600.....
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:31 PM
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you can buy napa at 994 dual mass or advance auto at 798 and so far you and ADT on single mass both fall within the price range i stated of 500 to 700 dollars for single mass conversion. i personally will be buying the dual mass at advance auto when the time comes i don't see the point in paying napa an extra 200 dollars for the same product.

and farm i did not say you don't know how to shift i did not quote anyone directly saying they don't know how to shift im just saying that driving style contributes to the lifespan of the clutch which is true of anyone.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1994F2507.3L View Post
Single mass is harder on everything in the transmission. the dual mass is not a POS mine has 240,000 on it and still shift's flawlessly. its all in how its used. proper shifting will allow it to last longer than "dumping the clutch" "riding the clutch" worn out master/slave cylinders ect. also the conversion kit which you would need to convert to single mass runs between 500-700 depending on brand while the replacement dual mass at advance auto is 789.
In my year or so of being on this forum I have never heard anyone with this opinion before. Everything I have heard thus far has said the SMF is a great upgrade for our old trucks. I myself have been considering it just for the lighter clutch pedal.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:43 PM
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For those who wish to spend time only, the following was floating around several years back........ copied from another diesel page..

NOW FOR THE FIX


Changing a Dual-Mass to a Single-Mass Flywheel


When taking out the flywheel be careful as this thing is heavy, around 65lbs

One thing if for any reason you have any concerns don't try this . This is at your own risk, Mel Agne has done this conversion and so far it has worked out great, I have not put this in my truck as of yet but have it ready as my flywheel is making noise and I have this ready when I do change the clutch out I will change this out also. I am not afraid of using this fix, I feel really safe doing this to my truck.

I strongly suggest you drill out the bolt holes on a GOOD drill press to make sure the holes are straight. It would not be a bad idea to check the balance after putting it back together before installing it.

There is a guy on E-Bay that has made a DMF hub that dose the very same thing I have done and he wants $200 plus shipping for the hub, that is where I got my idea and tore a flywheel apart and discovered this trick This fix will cost you whatever the price of the 6 grade 8 X 2" fine threaded bolts & lock nuts and about an hour of your time drilling out the holes and bolting it all back together once you have the flywheel out.

After removing the flywheel take it all apart and I do mean all apart, remove everything, springs, friction plates and take the hub that bolts to the crank off, 2 small countersunk screws and remove everything in there also, there are some friction plates in it also.

The part that the pressure plate bolts to, the clutch plate, has 6 holes in the center that also bolts to the flywheel hub, this hub has 6 blind threaded holes that needs to be drilled all the way through I drilled them out to 3/8 even though they were threaded, I thought 3/8 X 2" fine threaded grade 8 bolts would be the right size and would match the holes in the ring gear plate better. , becareful when removing the hub plate that has the blind threaded holes as it is mounted to a center that is a roller bearing and you might pull the bearing apart. If indeed you do pull the bearing apart you will need to put the ball bearings back in as to line up everthing. Don't worry about the bearing as it will serve no purpose after you bolt the whole thing together.

If you notice on the plate that has the ring gear there are 9 holes drilled through it. 6 of the holes are smaller and will almost line up with the 6 in the hub you just drilled, you now have to drill the holes in the ring gear plate to match the ones in the hub you just drilled. I did this by bolting the 2 part hub back together on the ring gear plate so the clutch plate would line up true and then put 3 smaller diameter bolts, 5/16" bolts through every other hole I drilled out in the hub and through the smaller holes in the ring gear plate to line every thing up. I ran a 3/8 drill down to drill out 3 of the holes in the ring gear plate, I then put the 3/8 bolts in the 3 holes I just drilled out and tightened them then drilled out the other 3 holes. I put all grade 8 bolts in and used lock nuts, but do not use the ones with plastic in them but all metal locknuts, tourque the nuts to 40 lbs.

The 9 bolts that bolt the flywheel to the crankshaft also goes through the ring gear plate and the clutch plate, the hub now bolts to the ring gear plate so everything is bolted together to make it a single mass.
No more noise and you can still use you stock clutch setup. Hope this is of some value to you.
 
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:51 PM
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wow plc that's good info, thanks for posting it up!
 
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:31 PM
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dam you people...Agree on something..lol well thats alot of good information, not real sure what im gunna do yet. i was looking at a Hays clutch. i still need to check and see if its for a DMF or a SMF.
 
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:11 AM
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lol agreeing on this topic is something that is VERY hard to do. ive researched the dual mass flywheel and found out the point of using it. and the different transmissions it was designed for. i'll stick by the dual mass its a pretty tough setup when used properly. the trailer in the pic in my name weighs +-3000 LBS skid steer +-10000 LBS and truck +-8000 LBS with tools, fuel, chains ect. so +-21000 LBS. and she shifted fine then and still shifts fine now several months later. its all up to you the purpose of the dual mass flywheel is to absorb the torque spikes created by the diesel engine and keep them out of your trans and remaining driveline. it also keeps you from overstraining the driveline and keeps gear rollover noise to a minimum.
 
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:13 AM
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so if i follow correctly the DMF soaks up a shock load on the trans and driveline.
 

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