Turbill and I wrapped our heads together and got to thinking about some up-pipe plumbing. So, next comes some questions about pipe size....and other things...
The exhaust hole coming out of the head is 1" round. Theoretically...wouldn't it be best to have a 4" pipe on each side of the engine, giving 1" for each cylinder to flow?
I'm no expert, but I do have a good basic understanding of things...so this is what I've got so far. It's a crude drawing in Microsoft Paint, but I think it gets the ideas across anyway.



Picture #1 is viewing from the front or rear of the engine, the crcle on top is the turbo. The view from front or rear isn't the point in this picture, it's the lower and upper manifold idea. A lower manifold is built using 90 degree 1" tubing with 5/16" plate steel for a mating surface flange on each side. The matng surfaces would be the same on each side for versitality for each side of the motor, and so the stock exhaust manifold gasket can be used. The upper manifold/up-pipe could be easily un-bolted for engine service, mainly for glow plugs and injectors. The upper manifold is poorly pictured, so let's move attention to picture #2.

Picture #2 is a side view looking directly at the head from the left or right of the engine. You get an idea of how the lower manifold is constructed in this picture. But this picture has emphasis on the upper manifold. Theoretically, the upper manifold gradually increases in diameter from 1" to 4". As the manifold passes each cylinder, 1" is increased in diameter to better handle the flow. I'm trying to get the heat out of the cylinders to get away from the Cylnder 7/8 heating issue which pops the head gaskets on stock motors. The top of the manfold where the exhaust would exit is just pictured as a half circle, because you're only looking at the top half of the exhaust pipe at this point...but it continues over to the turbo...where picture #3 comes into play.

Picture #3 is a top-view showing how the upper manifold goes over to the turbo. Now, I haven't figured out the flange entering the turbo since I don't even own one to look at. But I supposed it would differ from whcihever turbo you use. I imagine the up-pipe being underneath the down-pipe...leaving enough room for a 3" down pipe to fit over the up-pipe and between the cab and motor after the cab seam is beaten/cut down.

I found this picture on a google search, and it shows what I mean about the up-pipe being underneath the downpipe. I guess that's how it normally works anyway.
Also from this picture, you can see how the up-pipe manifolds would fit well from each side of the valve covers traveling toward the turbo.



My biggest concern right now is heat and temperature in the engine compartment...opinions?
I think this would be sweet. The custom manifolds would flow better than the stock manifolds since the custom units would taper fo better exhaust flow. So essentially, the result would be a turbo-charged engine with excellent flow similar to headers.

Ok, I'm ready for the beatdown...where will the issues be?

 

HAHAH another classic drawing my friend.
And also guys I go to school for mech engineering so theres a chance we could get my school to pay for this as my senior design project, so if we figure out this is do-able/some what practical money may not be any concern.
this is just a brainstorm we came up with so yeah tear us apart any ideas/crits are welcome

 

The ID of a stock exhaust manifold is in round numbers 2.25" from front to back.

The more area you have in the exhaust manifolds, cross over pipes and turbo up pipe, the more turbo lag you will have.

Also the larger pipe means less exhaust velocity.
So the exhaust velocity will not spool the turbo as fast.

Less velocity and more volume also mean the exhaust gasses will have more time to cool off before they hit the turbo.

Look at how the Power Stroke exhaust is set up on the 99 to 03 7.3 engines.



That would be the route I would try to go if I were going to try for a home made turbo system.

Get rid of the cross over running below the engine and curve the drivers side exhaust right up to the turbo inlet.
Keep the pipes at about 2.25" ID from each exhaust manifold up to the turbo inlet.

And get all of the pipes ceramic coated and wrap them with header wrap to keep as much heat as possible in the exhaust.

Less volume in the pre turbo exhaust, shorter route from the drivers side head to the turbo and much less heat lost from the exhaust.

So now you will build boost faster and the top numbers can go higher if you do all of the supporting mods required to run higher boost.

Bigger is not better before the turbo.

For further information, I have a monitor on my Stroke that displays the air pressure, exhaust back pressure and turbo boost.

With a 3" down pipe and straight 4" pipe with no muffler all the way to the rear of a crew cab 8 foot bed truck, my exhaust back pressure sits at .1 or .2 pounds over air pressure at idle with no boost.

As boost increases, the exhaust back pressure goes over air pressure by almost the same amount.

Say 14.1 PSI air pressure, 14.2 exhaust back pressure, 0 boost pressure.

Next 14.1 PSI air pressure, 16.1PSI exhaust pressure, I would see 2 PSI of boost.

Foot down farther, 14.1 PSI air pressure, 28.1 PSI exhaust pressure, 14 PSI boost pressure.

With a little experimentation on my 250 I found if you run stacks, at just the right height and angle you can use air flow at higher speeds to help suck the exhaust out of the stacks.

That gives you faster air flow through the turbo since there is less exhaust back pressure.
Speaking in relative terms, cooler EGT's and higher boost numbers are the results.

Figure out how to run an up pipe like the Banks in your picture up the rear of the drivers side head, get rid of the Y at the bottom of the passenger side head and make it a smooth ell instead, then get a 3+" turbo outlet flange and down pipe from the turbo outlet back down under the truck cab.

You will be on your way to a better running IDI turbo engine.

HyperMax uses a pre turbo setup on one of their turbo systems something like that.
But the pipes are to long in my opinion.

I have been giving a custom turbo system some thought, I just need some time to beat some metal around to look at how it might work.

My son wants to build a system for his 87, so I have a couple trucks here to play with since we both have other transportation while we are figuring things out.

 

Wow, that's a lot to absorb and I've been digesting since I read it about 2 hours ago.
Velocity and volume are the two things we were discussing last night in the garage, but I did not take higher flow into consideration for turbo lag. That's very interesting and totally makes sense. I mean if the pipes were designed to flow better, the velocity would increase but the volume would also increase so it would be a wash in the end.
I'm lucky, my Dad has an '03 7.3 in his truck so the Stroke up-pipe is what originally had me inspried, but I found the distance between the drivers side head and the firewall is definetly not big enough on my 85, and any 80-97 for that matter. I'll take a picture tomorrow. With the loss of that idea, that led to bringing the pipes over the head instead of around/behind. Wait, timeout. How is the drivers side up-pipe sent to the turbo on a 94-97 Stroke? If they send it the same way as the 99-03, then theoretically it would fit.
If the drivers side would fit behind the head, between the firewall, and over to the turbo..I'd love to run it that way. Build a log manifold simple enough, with the outlet flange on the top rather than on the bottom. Run the pipe up to the turbo and call it good. After it's all assembled, take it apart. Have it ceramic coated, wrap it in header wrap, and then re-assemble.
That's very interesting to read about the monitor on your Stroke. Where is the exhaust pressure measured? I'm assuming the boost pressure is measured between the turbo and intake manifold. That's definetly an interesting relationship on those numbers. I'm still trying to figure out how they relate...
Even if the stock drivers side manifold was used, but with a harsh angle to get the up-pipe heading back up to the turbo, that would be simple as long as it fit between the head and firewall.
I definetly would prefer a custom system anyways. I've been following some of the turbo threads and the prices of the parts is scary. Not that custom would be much less, but at least the system could be built better. It's easy enough to buy a new turbo, then make everything else work with it. An .84 A/R turbo with a 3" downpipe flange. Build a flange and Y-Pipe similar to the Strokes to take the gasses from each up-pipe. Then have a shop bend some piping. Have it ceramin-coated, wrap it in header wrap, then bolt it all together. Stuff like oil lines, CDR relocation, and intake hats can be either made or bought from other applications.

 

I am looking at doing the same thing. The power stoke manifold does not point straight up, it more turns in twords the middle of middle of the intake I have a complete setup from a power stroke that i can get some pictures of tomorrow. What i was thinking about doing was using the power stroke turbo flange and making a log style manifold and makeing my own pipes to connect them. I was thinking about using a thicker plate though, it seem like the 5/16 plate may be a little thin and be proned to warp. I was thinking about useing around a 3/8 or 7/16 plate. I have found some that people are building with 1/2 or even 5/8 plate.

 

On my truck, with no body lift, there is about 1/2" between the last bolt of the stock exhaust manifold and the firewall.
There's also about 2" between the end of the valve cover and the firewall.
If the factory glow plug controller was removed, I could see where a pipe could go over top of the valve cover, bend in toward the firewall to keep away from the last injector, and then head right for the turbo.
I took a picture, but I don't think it does the measurements justice based on depth perception in a picture.



There's about 6" inbetween the last injector and firewall.
There's about 4" inbetween the back of the intake manifold and the firewall.
Even a body lift won't help gain any clearance between the head and firewall because the cab travels mostly straight down, rather then on an angle...an angle would increase the opening when the cab is lifted.

The best possibility I see is building a log manifold approximately 2.25" ID, then having the outlet flange above the third cylinder back (#6). The pipe would run up on a 45 degree angle toward the cab, then curvbe around the back of the injector, and head for the turbo.
There isn't enough room for the outlet at the back of the manifold, because if you shot the pipe straight up from there, you'd run into the accelerator cable exiting the firewall.
And I would think that if the outlet flange was above the third cylinder back (#6), it would take heat away from the back cylinder 8 which has been known to cause head gasket failure when heated up too much. Although the ideal engine would have head studs which would make that issue go away...

A body lift would really help, and is basically required for the 3" downpipe, but I've been trying to avod it in my plans since my rig is 2wd and I don't know that it would look very good with another 2" in height. Although I have been playing around with the idea of a TTB conversion anyways...
Lots of crap floating around in my head.

GOod points on the flange thickness, I suppose 1/2" should be safe enough.
Any pictures of your stroke manifold juni?

 

Al, another guy with an IDI powered Chevy, made his own headers, up and down pipes that are just like what you want to do. Check out his Dually Truck album allen2004's photos and albums on webshots

 

Thank you for the link, very interesting truck setup he's got there! Especially since it's got a Ford heart and soul!
I'm having trouble following the up-pipe from the driver's side. It looks like it exits in the middle of the manifold and heads right up over the valve covers, but I can't be sure because the hydraulic lines for the hydroboost are in the way. Very neat setup he's got there.
Any ideas how it works for him?

 

Whoops, didn't go though the album, there's more than one page!
Yes, I see how it all works now...awesome link, thanks!

 

Yeah, he doesn't have it in any real order.
He says it works pretty well. He's customized almost everything on the truck, whereas I'm gonna keep mine looking fairly stock for now (until you open the hood!). There's a guy on Oilburners.net that has a CNC plasma cutter and may be making header flanges for those that want to build custom systems.

 

I'm totally jealous of his fabrication skills, just wow.
I think this is the best picture that shows how everything is plumbed: 100_0010 pictures from trucks photos on webshots
I love how if you remove the up-pipes, the injectors and glow plugs are easily accessed for service!
I also like how he addressed his CDR relocation, by plumbing into the IP cover near the oil filler neck...having the CDR up front makes service nice and easy.

Any ideas what that electronic box is behind the IP? Looks like a back-up alarm...

 

That's the late model glowplug controller. He moved it there to get it out of the way of the turbo and the up pipes. He does some awesome work.

 

The 94 to 97 Stroke uses almost the same up pipe configuration as the 99 to 03 Stroke does.

In fact when I first posted the picture, I had 94 to 03 7.3, but since the turbo is wastegated it has to be 99 and up.

No wastegate on the 94 to 97 Stroke.

If you look closely, the turbo up pipes on the Stroke would come up about where the oil pressure sensor is on an IDI engine.
So you would have to slide them to the drivers side a bit and leave room for the down pipe to go back down on the passenger side of the valley.
Think more on bell housing to firewall clearance than head to firewall clearance.
The up pipe is down below the cab seam at the bottom of the head instead of up near the rocker cover.

Folding over the cab seam lets a 3" down pipe go in there, so it stands to reason you could also get a pair of 2.25" ID pipes side by side in there.
The problem is getting the passenger side up pipe past the down pipe.

Given how close the cab firewall is from the early 80's to 97, it can be done.
I am running a 3" downpipe on my 97, and the up pipe does clear the down pipe.
I am not going to say there is a lot of room between them, but they do clear each other and the firewall.

The Power Stroke has a back pressure sensor line that plumbs into the passenger side exhaust manifold, the sensor is located up on top of the engine in front of the HPOP, about where the IP drive gear cover is on an IDI motor.
Air pressure sensor, under the dash inside.
MAP sensor is located out on the firewall and hooks into the turbo outlet plumbing.

The gauge pack I am running takes the MAP pressure minus the air pressure to come up with boost gauge pressure.

It also has analog inputs that I can hook several other sensors into, and when I get an intercooler installed I will have temp readings on the turbo outlet temp and the intake in after the intercooler temp.

The more diesels you are exposed to, the more different ways you can see how others have tackled problems.

If you are also in a position to operate said other engines, you can then draw conclusions as to how well they do or do not work.

In my lifetime I have been lucky to be around many diesels made by many manufacturers used in many applications.
And I have been able to run most of them.

Sorry for the long posts, I can rarely say many of my thoughts with short posts.
When I try they confuse more than they clear things up.