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Truck Jerking/Studdering Around 45-50 mph

 
  #136  
Old 12-31-2013, 01:27 AM
scum77
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Ok thanks just another problem to work out
 
  #137  
Old 01-04-2014, 04:10 AM
bknott82
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Originally Posted by Bluegrass 7 View Post
A 402 code could be implicated but not a 401.
The shudder involves the EGR system when it is operating during that time.
A 402 code indicates the PCM diagnostics has detected a leak in the EGR tract into the intake when tested for flow during idle.
A faulty coil can react to this during cruise conditions as an excessively lean condition the coil can't fire on that cylinder.
The result is a shudder feeling from one cylinder that comes and goes with driving conditions.
Good luck.
Bluegrass....I just signed up to be able to tell you that you are amazing, and that I think you are truly wonderful for sharing your knowledge with us. I stumbled upon this thread by a Google search "transmission stumbling 40-45" I am a diy my own Ford girl. I'm a single mom, can't afford high dollar take it to the shop fixes, so I have fixed A LOT of my vehicles myself by much research then diving in. But this devastated me as I just knew by the FEEL of it that it was my tranny. I've even put off reading about it for a good while because I already knew it was gonna be expensive, but tax time is coming and I was getting ready to see how much of my refund was gonna fly away. Then I came to your words, read all ten pages of this right here. Every thing you said made complete sense and it floored me! I am almost in tears I am telling you! Every time you mention the speed thing being a big clue I had a big smile. My explorer, which is 02, 4.0 2wd by the way, ALWAYS does it between speeds mentioned, on cue. Now if I gun it, I can get her to forget about it sometimes and shift right on. But just casual driving, always the shudder. You have instilled hope into my little heart! For that I can't thank you enough, and this is an extremely long thank you, but you just have to understand your worth! It's 4am here and I can't wait till the store opens, I'm not even gonna test my baby, I'm puttin new plugs, wires, and a new coil pack on her, it's long overdue anyway! Because this, compared to a tranny baby I can do! I never would have guessed this and I'm good with cars if I do say so myself, for a girl lol. Again I cannot thank you enough. I truly FEEL by everything you have said, this is my problem. Nail on the head. Thank you more than I can express! Your wisdom and patience and thoroughness with explanation is a gift!
 
  #138  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:08 PM
Bluegrass 7
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To bknotts82.
I hope the info leads to your solving your issue.
To expand on this issue here is what happens to cause the misfire.
At cruise and low throttle, the EGR is called to opens.
This leans the air to fuel ratio as high as 22 to 1 lean.
If any cylinder's ignition can't fire the charge with hot enough voltage a misfire will occur at that time.
On a coil over plug ignition the usual fault is a coil with 'shorted' turns on it's winding.
The PCM detects the misfire and stores that info in program registers/memory as misfire counts.
If you force a down shift, the EGR closes and A/F ratio returns to normal levels in the 16 to 1 range or lower and is easier to ignite so you see the issue go away until the next time you enter the EGR operation.
It sometimes can get so bad that the coil generates enough interference on the harness that the PCM will stop processing any part of the program.
This turns into a violent jerking action until the PCM recovers it's normal program cycling.
I would advise you to use a good Scanner capable of looking at Ford's mode 6 and test 53. This test mode contains the misfire monitor counts for all the cylinders and should expose the offending cylinder.
The counts may show in Hexadecimal notation and can be converted to decimal with your computer using the calculator and conversion functions.
Good luck to you and the best wishes for the new year.
 
  #139  
Old 01-04-2014, 03:06 PM
bknott82
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Originally Posted by Bluegrass 7 View Post
To bknotts82.
I hope the info leads to your solving your issue.
To expand on this issue here is what happens to cause the misfire.
At cruise and low throttle, the EGR is called to opens.
This leans the air to fuel ratio as high as 22 to 1 lean.
If any cylinder's ignition can't fire the charge with hot enough voltage a misfire will occur at that time.
On a coil over plug ignition the usual fault is a coil with 'shorted' turns on it's winding.
The PCM detects the misfire and stores that info in program registers/memory as misfire counts.
If you force a down shift, the EGR closes and A/F ratio returns to normal levels in the 16 to 1 range or lower and is easier to ignite so you see the issue go away until the next time you enter the EGR operation.
It sometimes can get so bad that the coil generates enough interference on the harness that the PCM will stop processing any part of the program.
This turns into a violent jerking action until the PCM recovers it's normal program cycling.
I would advise you to use a good Scanner capable of looking at Ford's mode 6 and test 53. This test mode contains the misfire monitor counts for all the cylinders and should expose the offending cylinder.
The counts may show in Hexadecimal notation and can be converted to decimal with your computer using the calculator and conversion functions.
Good luck to you and the best wishes for the new year.
Thanks again bluegrass, and again you make complete sense, I appreciate you explaining that, it helps understanding how that works. also I will get a scanner, I've always wanted one, can't say how many times having my own good scanner could have saved me money, just never knew what to get, but seen where you mentioned what you use and found one on Amazon, so I'll be getting the same when I get all this done I'll post back let you know how it turned out, might be little bit, got some traveling coming up, but already gotten started on some of it today, plus got winter storm coming in tonight, so this will slow me down, but I'll get it done. Thanks again, best New year wishes back at ya!
 
  #140  
Old 02-24-2014, 02:36 PM
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UPDATE: Have dropped plenty of $ to get "piggy" ready to go for spring break, (bluegrass your info has been invaluable!!!) only to find out the main contributor to the rough running is a blown head gasket I can only imagine what this is going to set me back
 
  #141  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:21 AM
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I have a simular problem with my 02 f150 5.4l. I have 4 codes, 174 fuel to lean bank 2, 316 misfire first 1000 rpm, 171 fuel to lean bank 1, & 308 mis fire #8 cyl. Installed new plugs and cop's when first started, still runs rough at 40mph give or let off gas runs smoother but lose speed when letting off gas and starts to shutter when getting back up to speed. At steady speeds it also shutters.
 
  #142  
Old 02-25-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by f18cowboy View Post
I have a simular problem with my 02 f150 5.4l. I have 4 codes, 174 fuel to lean bank 2, 316 misfire first 1000 rpm, 171 fuel to lean bank 1, & 308 mis fire #8 cyl. Installed new plugs and cop's when first started, still runs rough at 40mph give or let off gas runs smoother but lose speed when letting off gas and starts to shutter when getting back up to speed. At steady speeds it also shutters.
Vacuum leaks... Misfire.
 
  #143  
Old 02-25-2014, 03:31 PM
Bluegrass 7
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You still have one or more faulty coils and the intake air leak is adding to the end results.
Make no difference when you replaced the coils. Right now there is still a faulty coil.
Two separate issues.
Solve them and it will run smooth.
Good luck.
 
  #144  
Old 03-02-2014, 06:59 PM
dness32
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I have the same problem. At 45 mph in overdrive the engine is at 1100 rpm. I was thinking that it was from lugging the engine. Sounds like it is a coil problem.
 
  #145  
Old 03-02-2014, 07:45 PM
Bluegrass 7
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Use a good Scanner to look at the misfire monitor counts for each cylinder.
It will show you which cylinder is the fault.
Or trap the fault as you drive.
I have explained this a dozen times in other threads what , why, where and how to catch the trouble!
The whole explanation is a long typing session because the causes and effect is not simple to understand for most..
Good luck.
 
  #146  
Old 05-10-2014, 07:22 PM
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This thread is amazing, 12-10 untill 05-15. But the info was well worth the read and very informative, at least for me, cause I am dealing with this very issue. Thanks to all who have given of their knowledge I now have a plan. Hats off and a bow to Bluegrass 7. You are the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
  #147  
Old 06-28-2014, 10:08 PM
Bclax
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@Bluegrass

First off I would like to thank you bluegrass for your time spent repeating yourself over that last 10 pages of posts! lol

I just bought a 2005 with 80K miles thats doing this shudder/bumping feeling at gentle load in the 45-50 range... I too immediately thought it was transmission related.

Based on what you have said in your posts im willing to spend the money on your reccomendations... Im going to the store tomorrow and buying wires and one COP to start testing each cylinder one by one.

I have a few questions though...

1. I have heard that after replacing a COP you usually need to replace all of them or else they all start failing... I dont have any good reasons why i believe this, its just what i have heard and read over and over when on the subject. Since you seem to be one of the most knowledgable minds on this topic, what do you have to say/think about that? (i would appreciate any opinion you may have). Once i find the trouble COP will i need to go ahead and buy the others and just do it and get it over with?

2. I also have a check engine light and the code associated with it is "P0420" Definition: " Catalyst efficiency low-bank"

There are a number of reasons it says that this may be coming up but one of them is that there is "an engine mis-fire or running condition"... Could this be related to this or is there reason to believe that there is in fact also something wrong with my catalytic converter? I most definitly didnt want to replace it just to find out since its not the cheapest part... I bought the truck used from a dealer and they wanted to replace the CAT. I bought it with the CAT code but it didnt buck/shudder durring any of the 3 different test drives I took.

Has anyone else had this code AND any of these before mentioned shudders?

Again, thank you for taking the time and putting this topic into lamens terms! You are awesome.

-Bobby
 
  #148  
Old 06-28-2014, 10:09 PM
Bclax
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Originally Posted by thompsb2 View Post
This thread is amazing, 12-10 untill 05-15. But the info was well worth the read and very informative, at least for me, cause I am dealing with this very issue. Thanks to all who have given of their knowledge I now have a plan. Hats off and a bow to Bluegrass 7. You are the light at the end of the tunnel.

Right? i just spent the last hour or so reading all 10 pages! This is a gold mine...
 
  #149  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:30 PM
Bluegrass 7
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Ignition coil: You can't really predict failure of a coil.
The best way to find the offending coil causing the studder in OD is use a Scanner capable of looking at the cylinder misfire monitors.
These monitors are found in mode 6, test 53. One monitor for each cylinder.
The cylinder/s with the highest misfire count, out of limits, is the offender.
.
Code 420 is telling you the cats on that bank are not performing up to spec.
Unfortunately it usually means changing them.
This code and code 430 is set when the switching 'ratio' goes out of limits between the front and rear Ox sensors that side.
This is how the system is able to tell the cats are at end of life for oxygen storage.
What this means is the rear sensor output moves more in concert with the front when is it supposed to stay relatively stable from oxygen output from a good cat assembly. This is all that second Ox sensor does. It does not control any other function.
Also with a Scanner, looking at the outputs of the rear sensors will see this excessive change that tends to follow the front sensor when it should read changes only over a small range.
Good luck.
 
  #150  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:29 PM
Bclax
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Originally Posted by Bluegrass 7 View Post
Ignition coil: You can't really predict failure of a coil.
The best way to find the offending coil causing the studder in OD is use a Scanner capable of looking at the cylinder misfire monitors.
These monitors are found in mode 6, test 53. One monitor for each cylinder.
The cylinder/s with the highest misfire count, out of limits, is the offender.
.
Code 420 is telling you the cats on that bank are not performing up to spec.
Unfortunately it usually means changing them.
This code and code 430 is set when the switching 'ratio' goes out of limits between the front and rear Ox sensors that side.
This is how the system is able to tell the cats are at end of life for oxygen storage.
What this means is the rear sensor output moves more in concert with the front when is it supposed to stay relatively stable from oxygen output from a good cat assembly. This is all that second Ox sensor does. It does not control any other function.
Also with a Scanner, looking at the outputs of the rear sensors will see this excessive change that tends to follow the front sensor when it should read changes only over a small range.
Good luck.
If i buy the craftsman 20890 reader that you said you own, that would be able to help me diagnose this? I found it online for like $130. I was hoping to do this with just the cost of new Coil boots, plugs and one coil. (about $150-$200). This will throw it up a little more.

I dont want to sound like a cheap ***, i just have a little one on the way and im trying to be as effective as possible... Maybe the computer is the way to go. I just cant shake the fact that i have heard from others that once you replace one coil pack that the others seem to follow as well.

I know that you said its hard to predict the life of a coil, but have you ever replaced only one coil pack and had that go well?
I know it may not be the best way to go about it but i saw in a past post of yours that you say that one could go about this by moving a new coil pack from cylinder to cylinder until the problem one is found. If i were to go about this in that method, i would replace the boots everytime while i were there... Correct? Unless i notice excess wear on the spark plugs.. then those too.
 

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