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oil filters

 
  #16  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by councilman View Post
I am a little bit confused! Does a spin on filter bypass when dirty,plugged or both? With at least 48 times more filtration do the big chunks get caught in the first couple sheets and the little chunks in the last couple of sheets or vice a versa? And if money gets tight can you put in just half a roll?
The spin on filter bypasses when it experiences a certain amount of back oil pressure - like when the filter's dirty/plugged, or at high rpm when the oil is cold.

(Hmmm, cold engine, high rpm, unfiltered oil.......)

On this, the oil goes in the end of the roll and comes out the other end, so all the sheets get used, and they all filter to a particulate size - OVER THE GIVEN FILTER AREA. The big chunks all stay on the top surface - like metal chips from a new engine, or carbon from an old dirty engine. As the roll gets older, the pores on top of the roll that filter the oil get full and the next layers absorbes it - all the way through. It would take quite a while to fill up the pores through the entire roll 6 inches thick (as opposed to the 1/8th thick element on a spin on).

And if money gets that tight, I doubt you will be able to afford the gas to run the truck anyway - right?.

And without gas theres no reason to insert a half a roll of toilet paper let alone a whole roll now is there.

Maybe you could find someplace else to put it.
 
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:45 PM
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Not being my first rodeo, trying that could have been painful! But I just ducked instead!!!
 
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by councilman View Post
Not being my first rodeo..........!
So aren't you lucky they were rehiring clowns after the great circus layoff debacle.
 
  #19  
Old 12-04-2010, 02:58 AM
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My dad worked was in the propane business his entire working carrier, and had his pickup and 5 ton delivery trucks running on propane. He also always installed a toilet paper oil filter on his trucks. I remember back in the 70's his pick up had over 80,000 miles on it, and he had never changed the oil, just added and changed toilet paper. The oil still looked golden as new. Propane doesn't add any carbon in the combustion process also helped keep it that color, but the TP kept it clean as new.
 
  #20  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
I'll go out right now and take a picture of the dipstick for you I have about 4500 miles on my oil.

Standby:

Edit note. Here ya go:

Attachment 30252
Thanks for the picture! I can't argue that it's not "honey" colored. My oil never looks that clean after 1,000 miles. But, after using spin-on filters for the past 36 years, it's a tough habit to break.
 
  #21  
Old 12-04-2010, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Me neither, but I don't have a lawnmower motor in my truck. (do lawn mowers even have oil filters?) Any good one does.

You can install it either way as a matter of fact. Care to provide a reference to Frantz's literature where they advocate using one as a full flow filter? That would be an interesting read.

Have you ever had one of these? Have you ever done any research on them? Seen any lab test reports - UL or the like? Got any facts at all on them to support your opinion?
Of course I've never had one of these. I work in the paper business and I know what's in toilet paper. High recycled material content and they don't bother to filter the dirt, grit, rock, metal particles and other trash out of the pulp. That stuff won't hurt your backside, but an engine - well, I'm not putting that stuff in any engine of mine. A filter is supposed to take that stuff out, not bring it in.

I have. And it's pretty interesting. Yeah, but it's kinda funny how the facts and information you get from somebody trying to sell you something are always biased towards their product.

Even as a bypass filter, the oil in my oil pan that is getting pumped into my bearings is cleaner (and dryer) than what your full flow design is putting through to your bearings Oh, yeah? Prove it. The oil in my vehicles looks the same way at my 5K change intervals. - even when the bypass valve in your full flow isn't letting the oil pass without filtering it at all That's a load of manure, but we'll chat about that later.- which is about 10-15% of the time. That's alot. Dirty pan oil being sent straight to your bearings Joe - 10-15% of the time. There's that number again. Got any unbiased data provided by an independent lab to corroborate that percentage?

Matter of personal preference. You guys can do whatever you want to.
Gee whiz, Dan. I didn't realize that we were on a first name basis. But since you feel like you know me well enough to skip my handle and use my real first name, surely you won't mind if I reciprocate, right 'ole buddy? I mean, fair is fair, right Dan?

I never questioned the efficiency of a Frantz filter even though your defensive string of questions implied that I did. My point was and is that a sidestream-type oil filter of ANY kind is not a suitable replacement for a full flow filter. They may be fine as a supplement to the standard full flow filter but should not be the primary and sole source of filtration. I bet that even Frantz will tell you that. If sidestream or bypass filtration alone is satisfactory or even superior as you claim, why are none of the OEM's using it today? Why do Ford flathead V-8 builders as well as afficionados of many other vintage engines go to great expense and effort to convert to full flow filtration where the OEM only provided sidestream? Can you name any manufacturer of any engine with a full-flow oil filtration system that would not tear up your warranty if they found out you were using a sidestream-only oil filter?

Yes, any full flow filter will have a bypass valve built into it and it may dump from time to time when the engine is cold or if the filter gets plugged. It should NEVER get plugged if it is changed at the proper interval and the total amount of time and total volume of oil that it bypasses when the oil is cold is so low as to be virtually insignificant. You suggest that when a full flow filter's bypass valve is active, none of the oil gets filtered. That's simply not true. Some if not most of the oil is still passing through the filter element and being cleaned even under bypass. The bypass valve does not just trip and dump all of it. If you really want to compare percentages and figures, find me some independently provided data that shows how much oil by volume passes through a Frantz filter at zero degrees F versus a spin-on full flow filter. Then we'll have something useful and tangible to discuss.

That's all beyond the matter at hand, though. Under normal operating conditions, ALL of the oil that the pump picks up with a full flow oil filter gets filtered and that is a fact. A bypass system filters only a percentage and that's a fact, too. It will eventually filter all of it, but a full flow filter would have filtered all of it several times by then. In my OPINION, these filters rank right up there with gas line magnets, HHO gas generators, and those crazy little turbines that they sell to put in your air cleaner. I doubt that they would hurt anything, but I doubt that there is any measurable benefit either so long as they were used in tandem with a full flow filter. I would not ever recommend using one in place of a full flow filter.
 
  #22  
Old 12-04-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueOvalRage View Post
Gee whiz, Dan. I didn't realize that we were on a first name basis. But since you feel like you know me well enough to skip my handle and use my real first name, surely you won't mind if I reciprocate, right 'ole buddy? I mean, fair is fair, right Dan?Dan, meet Joe. Joe, meet Dan. lol (I never did like when galleries posted your name and address)
I'm not going to pick sides, but TP is designed to break down over time, such as making it safe for septic tanks. Wouldn't it do that in engine oil as well? Serious question. I mean, the two together, if long lasting, would work great.
 
  #23  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by havi View Post
I'm not going to pick sides, but TP is designed to break down over time, such as making it safe for septic tanks. Wouldn't it do that in engine oil as well? Serious question. I mean, the two together, if long lasting, would work great.
That's why Frantz sells their Super Wipe or whatever they call it

The primary reason for changing oil isn't whether it looks clean, it is to restore additives that are depleted after a period of time, or a period of use. Cleaning out submicron particles just means you'll be draining cleaner-looking oil when you do a change.
 
  #24  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by havi View Post
TP is designed to break down over time, such as making it safe for septic tanks
For a few extra dollars, I'll bet I can have my truck pumped every three years when they come to pump the septic tank.
 
  #25  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:01 AM
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So how often do you have to um wipe, I mean replace the roll and oil. Given the additive statement and all? I use the Amsoil filters and have always been happy with the results.
 
  #26  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:17 AM
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Bypass Oil Filters

Toilet paper filters have been around for years, on many older vehicles they were the only filter . If you don't like the idea of a TP filter how about a luberfiner setup. A friend of mine had a trucking outfit and converted all his equipment to use a bypass Luberfiner setup. He claimed this alone saved him thousands of dollars in engine repairs. All engine oils were changed on a regular schedule. This setup allows the user to have more oil capacity and because of mounting the filter assembly in the open air also acts as a cooler. I ran a luberfiner on my service trucks , on an average my oil samples were always much better than without the bypass setup. I believe this is the reason for the extended service life of my engines. I seviced my oil and filters every 250 hrs as much of the time was idleing and running the PTO powering a Hiab crane.

Just Some Thoughts ---- Hotwrench
 
  #27  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:23 PM
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There's lots of questions about the filter that are more system configuration oriented.

You can use this and still keep the spin on filter on the truck if that makes you more comfortable. No one said you have to take the spin on off. You can use both. I can't see any disadvantage to that.

Second, alot of oils turn that dark brown from a chemical reaction not because it's dirty.
To be fair, alot of oil "color" depends on what type you use and not so much the filtration.

And Ross is correct in that certain lubricating qualities of the oil diminish over time which is why you change it. But if you are adding a new quart every 3000 miles that is sufficient to keep those up to par.

Lastly, toilet paper is designed to disolve in water. It's doesn't break down from the oil that I've seen.

These cleaners are not designed to be a "never change your filter or oil again" installation. Their claim about never having to change the oil is one I'm not sure I would support because I haven't seen any test results on the lubrication capabilities of oil after 200K miles. It doesn't mean it can't be true, it just means I don't have the facts on that.

I just know that with the ease of this system, and how clean the oil changes are (there's no oil that leaks out of the canister when you take it off) I can do that roll in hand in literally 2 minutes, and not even get my hands dirty. So the oil filter tends to get replaced sooner than it needs to be rather than later. Change it every 1000 miles if you like. It's that simple to do. I usually have the front tilt up once a month to polish all the chrome, and I just pop in a new roll when I do that. Very simple.

Like I said, it's your choice. I love the thing - and I have 25 years of experience with it - never had a problem after hundreds of thousands of miles.
 
  #28  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:27 PM
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Does anyone have any data from a national/certified testing labratory giving any test results form any style/type engine oil filtration device.
If so please post a link to the data ON THE TEST FACILITIES SITE.

Been looking for this type of data for a lot of years.

Without it all claims by all filtration device producers are crap
 
  #29  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HOTWRENCH View Post
Toilet paper filters have been around for years, on many older vehicles they were the only filter . If you don't like the idea of a TP filter how about a luberfiner setup. A friend of mine had a trucking outfit and converted all his equipment to use a bypass Luberfiner setup. He claimed this alone saved him thousands of dollars in engine repairs. All engine oils were changed on a regular schedule. This setup allows the user to have more oil capacity and because of mounting the filter assembly in the open air also acts as a cooler. I ran a luberfiner on my service trucks , on an average my oil samples were always much better than without the bypass setup. I believe this is the reason for the extended service life of my engines. I seviced my oil and filters every 250 hrs as much of the time was idleing and running the PTO powering a Hiab crane.

Just Some Thoughts ---- Hotwrench
Were your service trucks diesels?

Diesels (big trucks') are a whole different game, in just about every way. All diesels shuck burnt carbon particles into the crankcase, these are very abrasive. Diesels are operated almost continuously at very high power levels. They have a crankcase measured in gallons, not quarts. Diesel fuel that gets into the crankcase doesn't evaporate like gas will. Cold starts aren't as common on big trucks.

So all the extra filtration, water separation, heaters, etc. they use is completely justified.

As **** as the high-end carmakers are these days, if there was a benefit, you can be sure they'd be using something besides regular full-flow filters.
 
  #30  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:53 PM
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As **** as the high-end carmakers are these days, if there was a benefit, you can be sure they'd be using something besides regular full-flow filters.
Amen. With several of them offering 100K powertrain warranties, they wouldn't be taking a chance if there was something better out there.
 

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