Hi - My name is Joe - I am a new owner (and new to the forum) of a 56 F-100. It was a friend's I had seen sitting forever and I finally talked him out of it. It's all there, but needs allot of help.

I thought I would be able to build my hot rod (I've never had) with a big block, but after doing some reading, am second guessing my engine choice.

There's someone I know that is pulling a 1969 Lincoln 460 and this is what I have been planning to use. It has a C-6 with it, but after reading the amount of power it takes to run the C-6 (65 extra hp?), it doesn't look like a good choice and what I just read about the IFS front end and boxing the frame (I don't want to do this now) am wondering if it's unsafe or just dumb to stick in a 460. I want to invest minimal dollars initially in this project, though I plan to replace the rear Spicer unit with a 9".

A couple questions:

Could I get away with running a stock 460 with stock front end and not boxing the frame? Would the frame twist under moderate acceleration?

If it's reasonable to stick in a 460, what transmission? The C-6
doesn't seem to be a good choice because it's a power hog. I want to stay away from computerized components, so with that thought, what's the better automatic to put behind a 460?

Anyone looking for a 272 "Y" bock?

 

Howdy,



While the 460 is a powerful engine and will really push that truck, it's really a bit heavy for an F-100. I'm not saying you cannot do it (many have) it's just a lot of engine for a pickup that size.

You have a REALLY good engine you could just rebuild. ......

Built right, you can get good performance from the 272/292 and with the right trans and gearing, nearly 20 mpg on the freeway.

If you decide to use the 460, you could get a ZF-5 speed trans or if you must have an automatic, and using an (somewhat expensive) adapter, an AOD.

Or you could get an E4OD (and a rather expensive computer for control) with the 460. (I think you can also use an EFI 460 that will already have the computer that controls the engine and trans too)


I'm using an E4OD but it's for a variety of reasons that don't really apply to your situation......


Welcome aboard!



Rick

 

Welcome!

It sounds and looks like you've got yourself a cool project!


I can't see any reason you couldn't run the 460 with a stock frame. I would use and aftermarket engine mount crossmember like Trans Dapt makes. You can check them out here: Trans Dapt Performance Products - Universal Crossmembers Without Pads The one you would need is part# 9313. You can get it cheaper from Summit Racing here: Trans-Dapt Performance Products 9313 - Trans-Dapt Performance Universal Crossmember Motor Mounts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

The crossmember type mount will give the frame a little more support/strength in the engine area.

Will you have some frame flex? Probably but these frames were designed to flex some. It's nothing that will cause any issues unless you plan to do a bunch of 5000 rpm launches with it.

I also don't see any issues with running the 460 with your stock front suspension. The stock motors were far from light weights. But you might want to look into adding power steering and swapping in disc brakes. Just to make it a little safer to and more enjoyable to drive.

And I wouldn't worry about the C6 either. It's your best choice for an automatic on a budget. Any other choices for automatics would be either very expensive or computer controlled. The C6 is a bit of a power hog but it's also one tough mother! Personally I'd run a manual transmission. But I also like to shift my own gears!

 

I'm not exactly sure why all of a sudden folks are bashing the C6 as a power stealer. Sure it's a big strong transmission, and maybe if you were thinking about putting a newer 302 or something in the truck, maybe the 30 HP might be a factor - but not with a 460 - you won't be able to feel the difference.

The 460 is a little heavier than the stock engine set up, by 150 pounds. But it's not going to break your frame or be a problem to mount. Just make sure you have good strong mounts.

The stock front end will be safe and so wil the stock brakes - as long as you don't drive like the village idiot and expect to stop the truck like it's a BMW.

I have an "improved" 390 Police Interceptor with a C6 in my 51 F1 - stock brakes, stock suspension, and no boxing - and I have no problems.

And trust me, your not going to ever use all the horses you will have with that motor unless you plan to race it (and that's a whole different discussion). You won't ever miss those few that the C6 is going to take up. It's a very good trade for the reliability and stamina that transmission offers behind such a big engine.

Welcome to fTE by the way.

 

The horsepower "loss" with the C6 is what it takes to get it moving from a standing start. By comparison the C4 uses about 25 hp to get moving.

Once they're moving at cruising speed, most of the difference disappears.

Only thing I'd consider is your mileage - and I don't know how important that is to you. I haven't seen many 460's that will break into double digits on gas mileage, especially a carb'd version. Mileage will likely be somewhere around 8 mpg. But do whatever you want.

I love the raw power of a 460, even had one in an 88 250 4x4 w/ ZF5. But I love the other quirky Ford products too, so I mess around with flatheads, FE's, 400's, etc.

 

Wow Joe. Cool find. l love those years. Never had one, but I likem much. And especially like finding old crap and hauling if off and trying to bring it back to life etc. That's pretty much been the way with all my projects.

I've got a 460/C6 combo in a 58F100, and it works fine. For sure its heavier. When I put a pair of traditional floor jacks under the front I have to "lean" hard on the handles to get the thing raised etc. I don't know the exact weight/but when i raise my 48F1/312 yblock and manual tranny/its no effort. So its a big difference. And I don't have the exact numbers but in general i think the 58F100 series of trucks is probably heavier than yours. They're wider bigger etc/more metal i suppose.

And I tried using some of the aftermarket reverse-eye mono springs because its a hot rod and I wanted the front lower, and even with the already pretty longish/big frame/leaf spring snubber units trimmed back to about only 2inches in height from their normal 5 or so inches, those units would totally rest on the snubbers. No suspension travel--zero!! So I couldn't use'm. I sold them and got some mono springs with normal eyes/not the lower reversed eye. And I have plenty of clearance now/too much actually. I wish the truck were lower, and the reverse-eyed are "supposedly" only 2inches lower than what I'm using but with all the weight it just didn't work out that way for me.

And that's really my only criticism. I handles good/its not a work truck/its a prostreet type setup. I drive it on the highways and have done limited drag racing with it. It handles nice. I've still got the OEM suspension/steering/brakes etc. No problem. Front discs would be better though for sure. Just haven't go the money. But the brakes work good enough.

As someone mentioned earlier Transdap makes a good engine mount/my 58 engine mount crossmember is TD 9313/for 52-64trucks. I don't know if that's still a current number? But really like it because it ties the frame together/in a structural move etc., and also allows one to bolt on the OEM rubber-like+metal motor mount attachments to the motor etc. I boxed my frame front to rear/but that's not always necessary/just boxing from the front back to the firewall is easy to do/takes work/no great skill and will give you all you need/even though it may not be essential? I dont' know but I like to overbuild things--so I would.

My only reluctance with these big blocks is future unkown state laws regulating cars/trucks etc. I dont' know what the immediate future holds in store for us truck folks etc. But there may be legislation that penalizes-in some way--those of us with BigBlocks etc. Or rewards people with smaller motors or. Maybe all OEM motors will be accepted-like your current YBlock--which is a nice motor--nothing wrong with those motors/but any modded motor will be penalized etc. This is just speculation on my part, but where I live in Calif there's a lot rumbling going on from legislators that want to get reelcted and who knows what new laws we all might be getting. And unfortunatley legislators are not either farmers or scientists-either of these two groups might suggest laws that would bring results/legislators just want to get reelected/they don't know science or farming-often--and so don't really get results. They get reelected/that's result for them haha.

I'm hoping science will discover a non fossil combustible fuel source--like hydrogen that "could be" produced by living plants/solar/combustible fuel etc. I've read articles that suggest scientists are working on this and similar combustible non fossil fuels--that would be good. But if doesn't happen I 'd like to have a very small displacement motor with a turbo!
Because likely that will be the future until clean fuels are found.

And one final thought, you might be happy with a C4 tranny too? I suppose that would be less weight/I'm sure the physical smaller size would make it easier to fit regarding your firewall/floor etc. Or at least I think maybe. You'd want to look at that in your planning, but I like the C6 I'm using/but it fits really tight up against the floor area etc. I had to pound the sheet metal etc to make it fit. Smaller would fit better.

Good luck with your truck Joe/whatever you decide will be good. I've got some photos in my gallery plus other pics too if you need something specific. I'm not an expert or anything/I'm a do it yourselfer and I get it done with mag articles and help at forums etc.

 

Hey Joe/i looked at your profile- you're in California too/ask the legislator? You might need their permission by the time you've finished your build haha.

Tom

 

Sorry/one more thing/I see you've still got some of the old Calif plates/black field+yellow letters. I suppose you can keep using them/if you want. And those are the current non operation plates or etc I suppose. And there are threads on this forum that will tell you how to get some afermarket duplicates made/not exactly legal to use/but people do I think etc. You can read all about it if it interests you. All kinds of help regarding specifics DMV etc. I'm not an expert but some here are. The answers can be found. here.

 

Sorry/confusion/but i guess your plates in Calif for a 56 should be for Year of Mfg a yellow field and black letters/although I get this stuff confused. But my point was that "i suppose" the DMV will continue to let you use these plates if its the plates indicated on the title etc? You'll have to check into this. I'm not an expert on DMV but if you have a preference be certain to know the laws/and your rights before you allow a well intentioned DMV person--who doesn't know--to tell you what they are. There's a lot of misinformation at the DMV/they mean well but get it wrong with old plates often. If you care.

 

It depends on who you talk to but according to transmission specialist Art Carr the C6 power robbing story is an old wives tale. Sure it might use a tiny bit more power than a C4 but you would never know/feel the difference especially with a 460. Some here on the forum have used the C6 behind a 302 and even they can't tell the difference. If you have a good C6 then I'd use it...

 

My 50 has a C6 attached to a 302 (I bought it that way). Like I've said all along, it ain't gonna win a drag race, but it cruises very very well and freely. But it's got the speed if you want it (or at least enough on these curvy roads around here with a stock straight axle and leaf springs). I'll be quite honest, a 460 is a whole lot of engine for drum brakes and that stock suspension. My little 302 (with the help of my right foot) gets me in trouble sometimes with my truck and I have to catch it when it dumps all of its weight on the leaf springs in the corners (kind of fun actually). I agree with the comment about a 460 definitely being big enough to make the tranny not matter. Nice truck. I would at least consider keeping it original. You can always find another one someday to drop that monster engine in.

 

One more thought: if you are concerned about the added weight, you can always use an aluminum intake manifold instead of the big cast iron manifold. That will save you about 80-100 pounds - making your engine close in weight to the stock Y-block (+/- 40 #).

 

Welocme to the forum if you figure out how "moderate acceleration" works with a big block, please let me know. Hoven't figured out how to do that yet

 

Welcome.
Not trying to discourage you, but with our old trucks a "minimal $ build" is an oxymoron. Even the most basic (but safe) "rat" type build is a $10K investment, with $20K being average with basic upholstery and paint. The less you invest, the longer the build will take. (again the average build time to road worthy is 3-10 years with the time inversely proportional to the size of your wallet and fabrication skill level.) Unfortunately Tom is right about CA trying to legislate Hotrods out of existence. Currently they only allow 500 per year by lottery as I understand it to be newly registered and are trying to take that to zero in the next couple of years. That's the harsh reality facing you.
AFA the stock chassis and suspension handling a 460, that is not a problem, it is capable of safely handling >500 real hp in stock form without an issue, especially since your very nose heavy pickup will never be able to generate enough traction to twist the frame very far, and as said the Ford PU frames were designed to twist without undo strain. Unless wrecked, or salt rusted, it is unusual to find a 50's Ford pickup with chassis structural issues.
Large cu in engines are only good for bragging rights IMHO, and carbs are likely to soon be outlawed for the street, so it might be best to build for the future you'll be faced with by the time your truck is road worthy.

 

I have never heard that either, The C-6 is probably one of the best transmissions ever made by Ford! It's the base platform for the E4OD!

The only thing "wrong" with it is that there's no locking torque converter.....

That could be where the power "loss" might be, but I'm with Julie, you're never gonna notice if you stick with the 460!!!

I should have included in my first post that while I still think the 460 is a LOT of engine for an F-100, There's a LOT of them out there happily running it!!


Cheers,


Rick