I bought a used 03 F450 V10 in 06, which prompted me to order a 2009 F550 V10 (after 4 years of an 05 6.0) and I just ordered another 2011 F550 V10. Diesels are really not worth it anymore for most companies.

 

Great thread! As some of you probably know, in CA commercial diesel trucks over 14,000 GVWR as of 2015 must be newer than 20 years. so in 2015 you have to have a 95 or newer. in 2016 you have to have a 96 or newer and so on.

So I need to replace my 89 7.3 in a couple years. I love the diesel but I am concerned about the power of the gassers. Not that my 7.3 has much power. I often weigh in at 15,000 lbs and so while the V10 can pull it as well as the 7.3 (I would guess) I am concerned about it lasting under that strain. I'm in hilly country too. I will be buying a used truck, when the time comes Probably around 10 years old. What do you guys think about the V10 and the auto tranny in the F450 for carrying that kind of weight? Mostly freeway, but also some hills everyday.

Thanks
Ron

 

Ron,

Maybe this video will give you more food for thought. It's pretty much consistent with this thread.

2012 Ford F-650 with 6.8-liter V-10 Gas Engine - YouTube


It is also posted in the Excursion forum with some discussion.

 

Well That's encouraging! I did read earlier in this thread about the 650 and thought that if the V10 can hold up in the 650 it should work for my situation, but then just because Ford tries something doesn't make it the best idea. At least the V10 has been around for awhile and does have a track record. In the end we can decide for ourselves based on that record and our needs.

i wouldn't mind having my old 74 F 350 with the 390 V8 again. Now that was a truck! I remember the time it pulled a D-8 caterpillar that got stuck...

I saw that blah blah smiley and had to find a use for it. LOL

 

One other thing I noticed in the video, was the "Diesel like 362 HP and 457 ftlbs of torque" They are obviously not referring to their own diesel that wields 400 Hp and 800 lbs of torque. The v10 at the end of the day will do close to the same work but at twice the RPM. Having hot-roded street cars, I found torque to be way more fun and usable than HP. But I know there are forums that have threads on torque vs HP that are as hot and long as any diesel vs gas debates.

Then again you see lots of 18 wheelers pulling with gas. I guess if one was really inferior there would not be a market for it.

 

Interesting video...

A few key points: The Ford 6.7 is not an option in these trucks. While the other option is the Cat, and maybe the Cummins (not sure if it is or not), those motors are tuned way different than the Ford 6.7 in the "light duty" F-series. Sure, you can tweak a Cat/Cummins until it screams, but would you do that in an F650 or F750? Maybe. But 99% of the people out there won't. So when you look at the difference between the V10 and the Cat/Cummins in THAT TRUCK, there isn't a whole huge difference especially with the 6-speed behind the V10.

 

The emissions technology for the diesels has not matured yet, as evidenced by all the poor sobs that had problems with Duramaxes, the 6.0 egr, the 6.4 and all its associated crapola, and the fuel system HPFP mumbo-jumbo in the new 6.7 liter (I can only call it mumbo-jumbo, since it's not confirmed in any way).

Plus, you can run the 6.2 liter on good strong moonshine. And, I'm sure they will come out with 4 valve heads for it in a couple of years.

 

[quote=plastermaster;11395669] "Diesel like 362 HP and 457 ftlbs of torque" They are obviously not referring to their own diesel that wields 400 Hp and 800 lbs of torque. quote]

They must be referring to numbers off the commercial diesels from Cat & Cummins.
The 2007' F-750 I " drove" ( it blew up at 121,028 miles..) And CAT would not warranty it. ( Another story )
anyway it had 250 Hp & 660 Ft lbs CAT C-7 Acert. And it was 33,000 lb. truck with a 7-speed
Our other 08' 750 has a 300 hp Cummins 6.7 with an Allison 33,000lb , while the oldest 05' 650 has a 185hp Cummins 5.9, 26,000 with an Allison.
Sounds like the gas V-10 will be better than most and just alittle shy of the best gearing will be the key.
Great to have the option.
Cool video btw!

 

I think the 6.2 and other heavy duty gas engines used in light and medium duty commerical trucks will continue to gain a larger piece of the market for fleet owners and private owners.

An owner of a 6.7 in the diesel section had his engine replaced (thankfully under warranty) and the total cost for the replacement was $23,095.97.

As more people see the repair costs of these new diesels, they will probably turn to the gas counterparts.

Thread:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...please-28.html

 

FWIW, I noticed UPS running brand new gas rigs for their "package car" walk in delivery vehicles. A driver told me several guys got new trucks, with gas replacing diesel. GM power he says.

Meanwhile, I noticed we (FedEx Express) are getting new Isuzu box trucks for bulk pickups--5.2 diesel, 6 speed automatic. I clocked the one I drive at about 11.8 mpg with light loads and a heavy foot. Power is fine, much better than the 4 speed auto 6 cylinder Cummins trucks. We are also getting more Sprinters (MB) and a couple plastic Isuzu walk-ins. Those have a 3.0 diesel with about the same power as the old 300 Ford six. They are slow. No mpg on that.

The Isuzu box truck has about 70,000 on it and afaik, has been out of service once due to non-accident troubles. Not sure what it was. Someone put diesel in the DEF tank...that worked real good.

IMO I would not buy a diesel at this point. Emissions need a few more years to sort out, the extra cost is just nuts, and gas stuff seems out last the bodies etc now anyway. ymmv.

 

I agree. Hence the reason I purchased a V10.

 

This thread is absolutely true (and I have been a utility fleet shop foreman for over 27 years). We have been seeing this trend developing for many years, and with the last round of diesel emissions regulations now there isn't any question. Diesel engine cost-of-ownership is becoming more expensive than gas engines in heavy duty pickups. In medium duty, CNG is becoming the fuel of choice.

Consider what it will cost to replace an engine in some of these late model diesel pickups when the warranty runs out. I think you will be seeing a lot of them in the wreaking yards! They will not be worth fixing.

 

I work at a large ups hub with 500+ vehicles. We have been getting about 20 new vehicles a year for the past several years and almost all the package cars (step vans) are coming in with gas motors. A very few cummins diesels in some of the frieghtliner chasis. But gas in the vast majority. Mostly gm 6.0 and 8.1 in the larger vans

Same reasons the op mentioned, the up front purchase $ and maintnance costs outweigh the mpg. Even over the 25 year service life of ups vehicles the gassers are starting to make sense again. They have gone full circle. In the 80s they bought a ton of gmc gassers many are still on the road. Then they had been buying mostly diesels in the 90s-early 2000s now back to gas!

As a ups driver i prefer gas;
Quieter
Faster stop to stop (starts faster, and accelerates faster especially low end)
Not as messy to fuel; diesels always get caked with spilt fuel, gas stay cleaner.
NEW gassers dont stink

 

X2. I noticed your new gas PCs are "whisper quiet" compared to the oil burners. The older Freightliner MT45s are really loud. Empty it's like driving inside a snare drum. The newer MT55s we have with the 5 speed auto are a lot better, but they haven't started to rattle yet.

I was told the switch to the MT45s we made in the late '90s was a big disappointment as far as the cost of operation. I'm not sure who thought you could run one of those for the same money as running an E250 Econoline with a 300/C6. I bet you could do 5 or 6 oil changes on the 300 for the cost of 1 on the Cummins. (13 qts vs. 6 for starters--God knows what the filters cost....)

And yea, those diesel pumps.....sticky ^&t doesn't evaporate when spilled like gas..... I had a hose fall out once and get me all up one side. Had to soak the clothes and shoes in dishwashing soap for a week before I dared put them in the washer. Shoulda just burned 'em.

Getting further OT here, but the wife, son and I went to look at a VW TDI Passat. I asked the kid on the lot if he had any "Oil burners". "Huh???"
Anyway, we drove it, it ran fine etc...then we get back and we are ushered into the sales office. I sit down with the wife and kid covering my back. The guy talks us up, I BS him a bit and then I mention the dirty, sticky condition of many diesel pumps. He proceeds to tell us that diesel is not like gas--it won't harm your skin, and in fact you could put it on your skin and it would "moisturize" your skin. (I am not making this up)

We were just kicking tires anyway, and I resisted the urge to tell him how full of %^t he was.....

 

What i liked about the old gas pkg cars was running down the block id just leave it in 2nd cut the motor and coast to a stop, be getting out of my seat as its still rolling, jump out and deliver jump in and crank it and be rolling in 2nd at 20mph before i was even fully sitting down.

The automatic diesels (especially the frieghtliners you mentioned) take 5 seconds just to crank shaking and rattling the whole truck and a couple more to get it into drive, then you have to wait for it to be almost completely stoped before going into park.

Of course having power steering trumps all other concerns!