Lacks power then wont start after injector seals
#1
10-20-2010, 07:38 PM
Lacks power then wont start after injector seals
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To start off the truck is a 97 f-250 crew cab short bed 4x4 auto, with 260k miles. I figured I might as well do some maintence on it before winter hits because it had some blue smoke and was hard to start. Has 2 brand new 880cca batteries. I installed a stancor GPR and that didn't help. Next I installed some injector seals and new glow plugs. The truck started up and smoked a bit (from the oil that leaks down into the cylinders). I let it idle for close to half an hour and drove it around base. Truck ran amazing and had a ton of power. Couldn't get it up to speed since the speed limit is only 30. Well I got on the main highway and it ran great all the way until about 70. Backed off and started cruising at 55 and the truck started shaking badly. Took it out of overdrive and the shaking went away.
Well about 30 seconds later I decided to get on the throttle more and nothing happened. I went to WOT and it barely started to build mph. I pulled over and the truck was running horribly. It sounded like it was only running on 5 cylinders. I had to put it on the high idle setting because I was afraid it would die. I then turned around and headed back to base. It took me close to a mile to get up to 55mph again. I had to let each gear rev out until about 3k before it wouldn't rev anymore, and then manually shift it to the next gear.
I drove about another mile before I pulled into base. As I was slowing down it just completely stalled and I coasted to the side of the road. It wouldn't start again. I had to get towed back to the dorms by a chevy I started reading online and figured maybe the UVCH might possibly be messed up. So I replaced both of them and the valve cover gasket with no luck. Truck still wont start. The HPOP resi is full to the top of the threads. The truck just keeps cranking and cranking with no indication of even trying to start. I cranked it for about 20 seconds then got out and pushed in the valve on the side of the fuel filter and fuel just dribbled out.
Tach is moving
No smoke out exhaust and can't smell in there when I snif after trying to start
Cel stays on after long cranks. Was NOT on when truck was running like crap before it died
Going to try and obdII scanner tomorrow
Fuses are all good when I physically checked them, going to buy a multimeter to check them
Don't know how to check fuel bowl heater
Fuel filter has 5k miles on it fyi
Fuse number 22 is good
Just replaced the CPS and no luck still
I tried 2 30 second long cranks, unplugged the IPR sensor I believe it is, another 30 second long crank, plugged it back in, and another 30 second long crank. No luck or any indication it was going to start. Yes I took about a 5 minute break between any of the starts. It was interesting though on the first 30 second long crank the oil pressure gauge didn't move at all. It wasn't until about 7-8 seconds on the second crank that it started to move.
Tried unplugging the icp, and still no luck. Also tried taking off the chip to see if that had anything to do with it, and no luck
After a couple weeks I finally got AE
The stored codes:
P1280 Injector Control Pressure Sensor Circuit Low
P0603 Internal Control Module Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Error
P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Intermittent (Bank 1 or Single Sensor
And the codes I got both when I ran a KOEO test and buzz test. I could hear all the injectors making a ton of noise, that was pretty cool.
P1298 Injector Driver Module Failure
P1295 Injector Multiple Faults – Bank 1
Can anyone help or point me in a direction. I am not making much money, and don't have much free time so it might take a while to fix the problem. Would rather not throw money at parts if I don't have to.
Thanks,
-Mikey
To start off the truck is a 97 f-250 crew cab short bed 4x4 auto, with 260k miles. I figured I might as well do some maintence on it before winter hits because it had some blue smoke and was hard to start. Has 2 brand new 880cca batteries. I installed a stancor GPR and that didn't help. Next I installed some injector seals and new glow plugs. The truck started up and smoked a bit (from the oil that leaks down into the cylinders). I let it idle for close to half an hour and drove it around base. Truck ran amazing and had a ton of power. Couldn't get it up to speed since the speed limit is only 30. Well I got on the main highway and it ran great all the way until about 70. Backed off and started cruising at 55 and the truck started shaking badly. Took it out of overdrive and the shaking went away.
Well about 30 seconds later I decided to get on the throttle more and nothing happened. I went to WOT and it barely started to build mph. I pulled over and the truck was running horribly. It sounded like it was only running on 5 cylinders. I had to put it on the high idle setting because I was afraid it would die. I then turned around and headed back to base. It took me close to a mile to get up to 55mph again. I had to let each gear rev out until about 3k before it wouldn't rev anymore, and then manually shift it to the next gear.
I drove about another mile before I pulled into base. As I was slowing down it just completely stalled and I coasted to the side of the road. It wouldn't start again. I had to get towed back to the dorms by a chevy I started reading online and figured maybe the UVCH might possibly be messed up. So I replaced both of them and the valve cover gasket with no luck. Truck still wont start. The HPOP resi is full to the top of the threads. The truck just keeps cranking and cranking with no indication of even trying to start. I cranked it for about 20 seconds then got out and pushed in the valve on the side of the fuel filter and fuel just dribbled out.
Tach is moving
No smoke out exhaust and can't smell in there when I snif after trying to start
Cel stays on after long cranks. Was NOT on when truck was running like crap before it died
Going to try and obdII scanner tomorrow
Fuses are all good when I physically checked them, going to buy a multimeter to check them
Don't know how to check fuel bowl heater
Fuel filter has 5k miles on it fyi
Fuse number 22 is good
Just replaced the CPS and no luck still
I tried 2 30 second long cranks, unplugged the IPR sensor I believe it is, another 30 second long crank, plugged it back in, and another 30 second long crank. No luck or any indication it was going to start. Yes I took about a 5 minute break between any of the starts. It was interesting though on the first 30 second long crank the oil pressure gauge didn't move at all. It wasn't until about 7-8 seconds on the second crank that it started to move.
Tried unplugging the icp, and still no luck. Also tried taking off the chip to see if that had anything to do with it, and no luck
After a couple weeks I finally got AE
The stored codes:
P1280 Injector Control Pressure Sensor Circuit Low
P0603 Internal Control Module Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Error
P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Intermittent (Bank 1 or Single Sensor
And the codes I got both when I ran a KOEO test and buzz test. I could hear all the injectors making a ton of noise, that was pretty cool.
P1298 Injector Driver Module Failure
P1295 Injector Multiple Faults – Bank 1
Can anyone help or point me in a direction. I am not making much money, and don't have much free time so it might take a while to fix the problem. Would rather not throw money at parts if I don't have to.
Thanks,
-Mikey
#2
10-20-2010, 07:44 PM
#5
10-20-2010, 08:23 PM
So you've got AE now? Great. Let's start by clearing the codes. When the key is turned on, does the WTS light come on, then go off after a few seconds (a hint that something may be up with the fuel bowl heater)?
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
#7
10-21-2010, 02:05 AM
So you've got AE now? Great. Let's start by clearing the codes. When the key is turned on, does the WTS light come on, then go off after a few seconds (a hint that something may be up with the fuel bowl heater)?
I think I cleared all the codes and the same ones came back up. The Wait To Start light comes on and goes off after about 8 seconds it seems like
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
I tired that last night, but the battery voltage was low since I haven't got a chance to charge it in a while and for some reason it wasn't reading any of the sensors. Just before I tried that it read the fuel pressure and rpms which was weird. I will try that in the morning and hook my 4runner up to it to charge the batteries
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Battery voltage was down around 10 when I was cranking I believe, but it was at just under 11 when I started
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
I was hoping the new UVCH would fix it, but no luck there. Interesting like you said about the HPOP, not sure how i could look into that though.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
I think I cleared all the codes and the same ones came back up. The Wait To Start light comes on and goes off after about 8 seconds it seems like
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
I tired that last night, but the battery voltage was low since I haven't got a chance to charge it in a while and for some reason it wasn't reading any of the sensors. Just before I tried that it read the fuel pressure and rpms which was weird. I will try that in the morning and hook my 4runner up to it to charge the batteries
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Battery voltage was down around 10 when I was cranking I believe, but it was at just under 11 when I started
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
I was hoping the new UVCH would fix it, but no luck there. Interesting like you said about the HPOP, not sure how i could look into that though.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
The truck has a TS chip, and that was all. I have tried starting on every position, and also tried starting it with the chip unplugged, and also with the chip and ICP unplugged. I purged the cylinders by leaving the glowplugs out and cranking it over after I was done with the o-rings. Put the glowplugs in, and it took a while to start but it started and smoked for a half hour while it idled, then a good amount when I drove it down the freeway before it lost power, then soon after quit running.
I haven't tried the oil cap yet
No problem at all, it's kind of a long post. All my data from the last 2 weeks of trying to fix this thing.
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#8
10-21-2010, 03:08 AM
Did you unplug the icp or ipr? How's the tin nut on the ipr? It will run with the icp unplugged but not the ipr. Do you have someone you could swap pcms and idms with? With bank one having multiple faults my guess is the harness goinginto the valve covers came unplugged or has a broken wire or crap in the connecter
#9
10-21-2010, 10:04 PM
#10
10-22-2010, 01:41 PM
Did you unplug the icp or ipr? How's the tin nut on the ipr? It will run with the icp unplugged but not the ipr. Do you have someone you could swap pcms and idms with? With bank one having multiple faults my guess is the harness goinginto the valve covers came unplugged or has a broken wire or crap in the connecter
I appreciate everyone trying to help me.
#11
10-22-2010, 01:43 PM
So you've got AE now? Great. Let's start by clearing the codes. When the key is turned on, does the WTS light come on, then go off after a few seconds (a hint that something may be up with the fuel bowl heater)?
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
Next, key on and engine still off, hook up AE to scan and clear any codes. Then switch to the live data tab and select ICP pressure in psi, ICP duty cycle %, battery voltage or voltage (I don't remember all the exact names AE uses, so just select the stuff that sounds like it might be what I'm talking about). Since we've got 9 tabs to select data on, also choose Fuel injector pulse width ms, engine rpm, engine oil temp, map psi, and anything else in the long list that sounds interesting. Then watch the data, or if you're computer smart, hit record and share the data with us.
The short version is we need to see 500 psi minimum on ICP pressure for the truck to start. ICP duty % (really it's the IPR) should start off in the teens and climb into the 60's. Engine RPM should register and hit at least 150, battery voltage shouldn't drop below 10 - 10.5 while cranking.
Based on your other descriptions, UVCH would have been a good guess. You're statement about the HPOP reservoir being filled to the threads is interesting. There's a standpipe inside the reservoir that will drain excess oil back down into the oil pan, so you typically don't ever see it more than 3/4' from the top since the excess drains down.
Any chip or tuner on the truck? Any other mods? Engine oil full? How did you evacuate the fuel and oil out of the cylinders after changing the injector o-rings? If you remove the oil cap and flip it upside down on the fill tube and crank the motor, does it shoot up in the air any, or just vibrate off while cranking?
Also when I crank it with the oil cap on the valve cover over the whole, it just vibrates off.
#12
10-22-2010, 02:06 PM
#13
10-22-2010, 05:44 PM
Some reading for you ...:
AB29 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCs) P1295 AND P1296: MULTIPLE CONCERNS
DTCs P1295 and P1296 indicate that more than one fault exists on the right or left bank. A short and open on both the low side and high side can exist on the bank with the DTC.
DTC BANK
P1295 Right Bank
P1296 Left Bank
Check for short to ground:
Key off.
Disconnect IDM.
Measure resistance between each injector circuit one by one and battery ground from the IDM harness connector.
Are all circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB30 . If low side short was found, GO to AB1 to find short, then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to AB16 , then RETURN to this step.
AB30 CHECK FOR SHORT TO B+
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Key on/engine off.
Measure resistance between each injector circuit one by one and battery positive from the IDM harness connector.
Are all circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB31 . If low side short was found, GO to AB6 , then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to AB16 , then RETURN to this step.
AB31 CHECK FOR HIGH SIDE CIRCUIT SHORTED TOGETHER
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Measure resistance between high side circuits from the IDM harness connector Pins 23 and 24.
Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB32 . REPAIR short between both high side circuits.
AB32 CHECK FOR OPEN CIRCUIT
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Disconnect all four valve cover connectors on both banks.
Measure resistance between valve cover connector and IDM connector on all injector high side and low side circuits.
Are any circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
REPAIR open in suspect circuit. GO to AB33 .
AB33 CHECK FOR OPEN UNDER VALVE COVER
Key off.
All four valve cover connectors disconnected.
Using Rotunda Glow Plug Injector Adapter 014-00935 or equivalent, measure resistance between high side and low side of every injector circuit through the valve cover.
Are any injector circuits greater than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB12 . RECONNECT everything, CLEAR continuous DTCs and RERUN KOEO Injector Electrical Self Test and KOEO On-Demand Self Test. If DTC P1295 or P1296 reappears, REPLACE IDM.
AB29 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCs) P1295 AND P1296: MULTIPLE CONCERNS
DTCs P1295 and P1296 indicate that more than one fault exists on the right or left bank. A short and open on both the low side and high side can exist on the bank with the DTC.
DTC BANK
P1295 Right Bank
P1296 Left Bank
Check for short to ground:
Key off.
Disconnect IDM.
Measure resistance between each injector circuit one by one and battery ground from the IDM harness connector.
Are all circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB30 . If low side short was found, GO to AB1 to find short, then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to AB16 , then RETURN to this step.
AB30 CHECK FOR SHORT TO B+
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Key on/engine off.
Measure resistance between each injector circuit one by one and battery positive from the IDM harness connector.
Are all circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB31 . If low side short was found, GO to AB6 , then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to AB16 , then RETURN to this step.
AB31 CHECK FOR HIGH SIDE CIRCUIT SHORTED TOGETHER
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Measure resistance between high side circuits from the IDM harness connector Pins 23 and 24.
Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB32 . REPAIR short between both high side circuits.
AB32 CHECK FOR OPEN CIRCUIT
Key off.
IDM disconnected.
Disconnect all four valve cover connectors on both banks.
Measure resistance between valve cover connector and IDM connector on all injector high side and low side circuits.
Are any circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
REPAIR open in suspect circuit. GO to AB33 .
AB33 CHECK FOR OPEN UNDER VALVE COVER
Key off.
All four valve cover connectors disconnected.
Using Rotunda Glow Plug Injector Adapter 014-00935 or equivalent, measure resistance between high side and low side of every injector circuit through the valve cover.
Are any injector circuits greater than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to AB12 . RECONNECT everything, CLEAR continuous DTCs and RERUN KOEO Injector Electrical Self Test and KOEO On-Demand Self Test. If DTC P1295 or P1296 reappears, REPLACE IDM.
#14
10-22-2010, 06:38 PM
Did you leave the key in the ignition when you removed the TS chip?
#15
10-29-2010, 01:12 AM
So it's official I am an idiot and did not take the warnings serious when I put the injectors in. I put some oil on them, but now I realize they really need to be soaked in oil. The middle part that has two seals, had one of the seals messed up on each injector at a minimum. Also a plug wasn't seated all the way when I put the injector harness in. I fail for rushing the job and not taking my time. Winterizing the truck and going to upgrade some stuff after winter. Hopefully someone reads this and doesn't make my stupid mistakes