Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:04:20 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: fordtrucks-digest Digest V97 #90
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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 90

Today's Topics:

Re: Amp light in console [ ]
Re: Truck bed info [ ]
Re: rear axle ratio,last resort mrth ["D S Morgan" ]
Fw: Alignment Tools ["Jim" ]
1965 Ford F-100 Owners Manual [Barry Price
MAP woes [Tom ]
rings wont seal [Gerald and Lisa Hoel
Re: Drivshaft and rear end '39 [Dan Wentz ]
Re: Amp light in console [ ]
Vote results - Long and important in [Ken Payne ]
Vote info - for newcomers [Ken Payne ]
Re: 1965 Ford F-100 Owners Manual [Ken Payne ]
Shocks for 94 Ranger [Gardner ]
Re: MAP woes [JIM HURD ]
Ideal Rig [Rick Waldbart ]
Re: Split Fire [ ]


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Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:02:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Amp light in console

Could be the things you mention (shorted wiring least likely), but first
check the belt tension. Don't mean to be insultingly obvious, but that often
reduces maximum charge, and loose belts don't always squeal to let you know.
Even if the tension is correct, if could be slipping if its been glazed by
previous slippage. Some night when you notice this, turn on all the
electrical stuff, spray the belt with belt dressing and see if the light goes
out. Watch hours hand, necktie, eyes, etc if you spray the dressing with the
engine running.
If the belt doesn't help, get a little charging system tester from the
parts store - the cheap one with several LEDs and alligator clips works fine.
It'll tell you what part of the charging system isn't up to snuff.
BTW, I have an occasional glowing charging light condition like yours on
my Fiero. The charging system tester says its my alternator, but thats a
real pain on a V6 Fiero, so I just ignore it. Been ignoring for over a year,
as a matter of fact. If and when this comes back to haunt me, it should only
be in the form of a run down battery, so I'm taking my chances. Consider
your level of risk acceptance, and keep on truckin'.


Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:02:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Truck bed info

In a message dated 97-05-04 09:55:59 EDT, you write:

I just got my new issue of Custom Classic Trucks and there is a very
informative article on all phases of rebuilding your truck bed. It
includes many suppliers, but didn't mention one that I have found to be the
best. I have found Todd Murthum Reproductions to be very reasonable, while
maintaining top quality. His # is (810) 254 2835 in Michigan. Give this
article a good look before any bed work to save time and money. Ken: Keep
up the good work. Mail is finally getting to manageable level. Thanks Lee

I second the Todd Murthum recommendation. He was at Spring Carlisle with
a lot of nice stuff, and has a good little catalog. He even had Mercury
tailgates. I bought a correct set of tailgate chains, hooks and rubbers from
him for much less than Carpenter or Early Ford wanted.


Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:08:13 -0500
From: "D S Morgan"
Subject: Re: rear axle ratio,last resort mrthod
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Sorry I missed the beginning of the thread but I just joined the list.
Would you put the chalk mark on the edge of tire or rim?


> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: rear axle ratio,last resort mrthod
> Date: Saturday, May 03, 1997 11:15 PM
> >if you can't tell your ratio for sure by counting number of driveshaft
rev to
> >equal one (1) complete turn of your rear wheel,than remove the
> >plate on the differential,count the number of teeth on the big gear(ring
> >gear) and then count the number of teeth on the pinion gear(smaller
gear) and
> >divide the larger gears teeth by the smaller gears teeth,and carry over
> >fraction(example) large gear has 37 teeth,small gear has 9 ,your ratio
> >be 4.11
> Unless You've got a 9" rear end. Then the inspection plate is a tad
> difficult to find.... (remove axles and pumpkin to view the goods.)
> If You are careful, chalk mark and spin the driveshaft method is accurate
> enough.
> Happy motoring,
> Steve Delanty (
> ____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:47:37 -0700
From: "Jim"
Subject: Fw: Alignment Tools
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This alignment tip was post on the fordnatics list by. Dave
Williams. I have received permission by him and Ken Payne to
forward it here.
He has asked if anyone knows where he can find a tailgate
hinge for a 68 Flairside, I have sent him the Ford Truck
home page, any other information will be appreciated!

Jim Strigas
"73" Ford F100 (Daily driver. Getting better every day.)
"83" Yamaha XJ900RK (Best Gift of my life! From my best
friends! RSCL)
"86" Honda GoldWing GL1200 (OK, this part goes here, and
this... this... I think goes on the
"77" Buick EstateWagon (Beast of Immense Magnitude!)

These are "The Good Old Days"!
Be Cool Daddy-O B-)>

> From: Dave Williams
> To:
> Subject: FW: Alignment Tools
> Date: Monday, April 28, 1997 7:44 AM
> -> >appreciated. Also, am I going to have to get
turntable plates to
> -> use this >stuff or can I get by without? BTW, these
are going to be
> You must have turntables to get the toe accurately set
using the
> scribe-a-tire method. Otherwise the rim moves when you
adjust things,
> the bottom of the tread stays firmly stuck to the floor,
and your
> careful alignment gets blown away as soon as you drive
> I got four 12" squares of 11-ga steel for about $15,
sheared to size at
> the local metal dealer. After deburring the edges, slop
some motor oil
> between each pair of plates and you're ready to go. They
work just as
> good as the fancy commercial turntables, take up far less
room, and are
> much cheaper.
> Don't lean on the fender when the car is on the plates,
or they'll
> slide sideways. Embarrassing.
> can you help me get out of this place?...slow
> ain't my style, ain't my me a number...NINE,
> ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of
Doom M/C '92==

> | Another Fordnatics post -- Author retains copyright --
ask before forwarding |
> |Posts: Requests:|


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 13:00:29 -0700
From: Barry Price
Subject: 1965 Ford F-100 Owners Manual
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I am currently restoring a 1965 F-100. Does anyone know where I can
obtain an owners manual?


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:19:50 -0700
From: Tom
Subject: MAP woes
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Howdy all.

To start -- I've got a 94 F150 4wd with a 300 EFI I6.

I recently went on a day trip from where I live (Victoria, B.C.) to
McMinville, Oregon. On the trip, which is the longest I have done at one
time ever, I had to tank up on cheap American gas.

When it came time to pull onto I5 after tanking up, the check engine light
came on. Since I normally look closely at the gages when I drive, I was not
overly concerned, since if I did not have the check engine light, I would
not know anything was amiss, since it still ran okay and I had oil pressure
and the temp was fine.

For the rest of the trip, the check engine light came on and went out
intermitantly, more on than off.

When I got back home, I checked the computer, and it told me that the
Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) was hooped. This would help
explain the horrible gas mileage I had gotten, 'cuz that just meant the
computer ignored my engine vacum, and used default vacum amounts for mixture
and spark timing.

I took my rig to a mechanic friend, who took the MAP sensor through its
paces. He said there was nothing wrong -- probably the computer somehow got
it into its head that there was something amiss when there really wasn't.
He reset the computer and told me to go on my merry way -- if the problem
recurs, let him know.

Incedentaly, I have the hard plastic vacum line going from the manifold to
the sensor -- it seems a problem on earlier versions was a colapsing vacum
line that cut off vacum to the sensor.

So, a couple days after this, it was time to move a friend to Salmon Arm
(it's in the rockies, and I live on the coast). I load up my truck and
watch the check engine light.

It seems as though when I start my truck up from stone cold, after about 45
min of highway driving, the check engine light comes off, and it bitches
about the MAP sensor. After which, resetting the computer and anything else
I can think of has no effect -- the light turns on and off intermittantly
(more on than off) until the next morning when it is stone cold again.
Driving on flat land (high vaccum) or WOT for 10 minutes at a time (climbing
rockies with a load -- low vaccum) seems to make no difference with the
check engine light and the MAP sensor problem.

It first occured on American gas, but it continues with Canadian gas. I
believe that to be a coincidence. Where I live -- it's just about
impossible to drive 45 minutes on a highway, so that's why I haven't noticed
the problem 'till now.

It is a problem, so it is bothering me and I want to fix it. Any
suggestions as to the cause of the problem -- any similar experiences?
Apparently, the sensor checks out and passes all of the tests, and the time
of driving it takes to initialy become a problem makes diagnosis difficult.

TTTTT OO M M The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick. |~~~|
T O O MM MM o o
T O O M M M Be young, have fun, *
T OO M M and drink lots of beer!!! `-'


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 13:42:41 -0400
From: Gerald and Lisa Hoel
Subject: rings wont seal
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Hey guys, its been awhile since we've been around. Went on a trip to
Texas. We want to thank all of you who gave us advice on the Holley
carb. We found out that our ignition module went bad which was causing
our newly rebuilt 351M to backfire, cut off and all kinds of other crazy
stuff. Also picked up an Edelbrock carb as we were tired of
troubleshooting the leaky Holley! Anyway, the engine is running all
right again except that the #7 cylinder seems to have oil in it.

When we first turned her up after install, she leaked on the #7 side out
of the head gasket; we hadn't torqued a couple nuts properly (oohps).
Could the oil have leaked into the #7 cylinder (and not the others) or
are the rings not seating in just that one???

Any advice and help in fixing this prob would be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Gerald & Lisa
1977 F-150 Flareside (351M .060 and proud of it!!)


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 12:42:36 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
Subject: Re: Drivshaft and rear end '39
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>As an example, my F1
>has nine leaf rear springs with six leaf helpers above them which contact
>interesting cast brackets on the frame. Doesn't sound like your basic half
>ton to me.

I'll say it doesn't! The odd thing is, it doesn't sound like my F1 or
other F1's I've seen. I've got (I think) 11 leaves and no helpers.

Unfortunately, I'm missing the original production plate
>(glovebox door), so I don't know the weight rating or gear ratio. I'll take
>the time to figure it out one of these days.

Weight rating on my 50 is 4700lbs. Gear ratios available on 48-52 F1's
were 3.92 and 4.27.


1992 Ford Mustang LX
1950 Ford F1, 351C-2V
Check out my F1 page:


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 15:44:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Amp light in console
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Anthony Ricotta wrote:
> I'm new to the digest so I hope I get this right.
> I recently bought (used from a dealership) a '93 F150 Supercab 4 x 2. So
> for I love it. But having never owned a pickup before I am totally
> unfamiliar with trucks historical pecadillos. Here's my problem- I
> live in Las Vegas and we are coming into the warmer seasons and have
> begun using the A/C during the days. During my drive home from work
> though I have noticed the amp light in the console comes on.

Ok Tony try a few of these....

1). Check belt tension as mentioned before Possible but unlikely
2). At night ( obviously the best time to see the bulb ) Start with no
accessory load just the motor running do you see the light yes or no,
Next start loading the system with accessorys one at a time A/C blower
on low step to speed and so on to high, then headlights ect.. while
doing this observe the light dose it increase in illumination with each
step ? If it dose your fighting an alt or voltage reg problem. More than
likley a diode in the alt. is decaying under load this should be tested
by your dealership since you still have a warrenty.

Should the light stay the same, or only light when one specific
accessory is turned on you could very possibly be chasing a bad ground
in that specific accessory, A bad ground will back feed looking for a
better ground an can cause your problem. again with still having a
warrenty stand on your soap box and bitch till it's fixed, this will
save you from pulling out your hair. If you can't get satifaction from
the dealer E-mail me at and I'll step you throug it.
good luck


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:05:41 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Vote results - Long and important info
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It was a landslide...

For Split: 66 75.8%
Against: 21 24.2%

I will not bring this issue up for a vote again. If it ever
comes to another issue such as this, it needs to start as
a motion from the group. The _only_ reason I brought this
up is because I had alot of people beg me privately to do
something about the volume and/or split the list after the
sharp increase in traffic over the past 3 weeks.

As things stand right now we have received enough money
for the new web site (someone has earmarked money for it).
The new site will be up ASAP (probably 2 weeks), expect
to see many changes as we'll have alot of bandwidth. As to
whether we have enough money for a list split, it will cost
$60 for the next three months service (both lists total)
plus $20 to setup the new lis. That means we need $80 for
the list split. Right now, not including the money
earmarked for the web, I have received $50 in donations.
I hate to do this but with the baby due in less than 4 weeks
I need to ask if anyone can send a few bucks (but not if you
already have) to make-up the difference. Once I have enough
money we can have the new list up within 24 hours! Keep
in mind that this is only going to cover us for 3 months.
It will run us $60 every three months for two lists - its
a real good price when you consider how much mail LOF is
processing for us. Please, if you can, help foot the bill
as only an extremely small number of people have helped.
I'm going to stop grovelling now.... remember you are _not_
required to pay for the list - do it if you can and/or
feel like it but don't if you can't afford to. A full
accounting of all donations and expenses will be presented
to the list on the 15th of this month.

I received an alternate suggestion for splitting the list:

"restorers, who're very interested in the arcane specifics
of historical accuracy, and what might be called
"preservers," who might be more interested in keeping a
family car going whether or not it's pure by concourse

Also, someone suggestion diesel/non-diesel. If I'm not
mistaken there is a diesel truck group in existance. I
don't have its address (if anyone does please post it) and
I don't know if it's Ford only.

Since there wasn't any type of concensus on other types of
splits I will not bring it up for a second vote (plus its
a pain to sort and count them!).

Here are the comments voters sent in, keep in mind that most
voters did not comment:

Against Split
- I think the infomation on all years is important to me.
It all helps.. Thank for the list . If there is 2 list
then I will surcribe to both.

- From what I've seen in the list, the membership often
splits along two poles: restorers, who're very interested
in the arcane specifics of historical accuracy, and what
might be called "preservers," who might be more interested
in keeping a family car going whether or not it's pure by
concourse standards. These two spheres overlap somewhat
when it comes to performance, but even then, I noticed a
great deal of emotion recently around issues of brand
purity/loyalty. Personally, I think we need a greater
pool of commonality, not less. No matter where you are
between the poles, you're likelier to get better
information pool from a larger group than a smaller one.
Cross pollination has many benefits. If the group is
split, why draw it at vehicle age? Plus, doesn't this
add to the Sysop's burdens (running two lists instead
of one)? Is that helpful?

- Like I emailed, if people would learn to not send
everyones emails 17 times when replying, the digest would
get a lot smaller.

- I feel that there is a lot of mail but I find some of the
items on older trucks interesting as well. Also it is
not that difficult to sort out as most people do a good
job of desribing the letter in the RE.

- If they can't handle the volume, require them to get a
better provider. :)

- As the owner of two trucks one post 80 one pre 80 I can
see inner changing of ideas both ways.

- If there is a split I will likely subscribe to both lists.
I like getting all the info and that is the only reason I
voted no on the split.

- How about a split between gasoline and diesel? Many thanks
for this list!

- I am only getting 2-3 digests a day now. If we split I
will probably get less than 1 per day. That is just not
enough Ford Truck talk for me. I have 2 trucks on each
side of the split so for me it is more convenient to have
it all in one list. I am 100% against the split.

- Since I have a 6x Fxxx and an 8x Bronco II, I am interested
in both lists.

- I subscribe to several mailing lists in digest form. I
suggest that option for subscribers overwhelmed with the
number of messages. People with newer vehicles should look
on this as a way to learn how to care for their trucks in
the future. If you decide to split I would like to be on
both. Great List!

For Split
- Great idea Ken, I dont think of it as a split, I think of
it as segmenting us and giving us more time to dwell on
pertinent questions rather than wearing out the paint on
the Delete key and possibly losing folks with good info.
Divide and Conquer !!!!

- Do whatever it takes this is great idea, and I think you
should do whatever it takes to keep it going

- The check is in the mail

- I know I'm past the voting deadline but thought I'd provide
some input anyway.
(Note: I put this comment here but did not count it. By
the vote count it doesn't seem that one vote would have
made a difference anyway.)

- Excellent resource for information---cheap. Keep up the
good work.

- The list traffic has been pretty substantial and it is hard
for me to keep up with all the emails. I'd like to see the
break as 'early' as makes sense with the truck models.

- Thanks for all your hard work MOM. I already voted once
and once is enough. God Bless you.

- A minimum of badge bashing would be nice. I am partly on
the list to get info on the '7x f-250 and partly to help
figure out what Ford engine to use in my xx International.
Badge bashing realy sours the group.

- I agree with the decision to accept donations instead of
charging a fee.

- Split the list, but continue to send me both. Thanks, and
your are doing a wonderful service.

- I don't really want to split the list and voted no last
time. However, it appears to me from Ken's comments that
this is probably necessary because of the current size of
the list. I really enjoy hearing from the people who have
older Fords as those are the ones I grew up with, but I
suppose I can subscribe to both lists. Thanks for
everything Ken, I plan to send you my check as soon as I
get a chance to sit down and do it.

- Thanks Ken, and thank you to the other members of the
fordtruck list. My trucks engine is a ford but I put
Chevy hub caps on it. I'm sorry I don't why, I just
lost my head!

- Yes, I do think that the models after 1980 should have their
own list because this year marked the end of the good old
trucks and the new not so good trucks.

- Back at 200 members, I voted to not split the list. However,
on Monday mornings I am now greeted by up to 170 messages
since the Friday afternoon previous (Agh..too much of a good
thing!) If and when I buy a newer truck, I may be interested
in the 1980's + info. Until then, the pre '79 list will suit
me fine. Thanks Ken!

- I'll still subscribe to both but will probably digest the newer
half. I've learned more about Ford trucks in the last four
months than is probably good for me! Thanks to everyone!

- I love the list and like to help when I can. Just too much
mail. Can't deal with it.

- I have a new ford and an old ford but don`t work on the
new one, YET! I`ll still get both lists just the same.
never know when you`ll need it!

- Sounds like a good idea to me. If it's too much than do
the logical step....separate it.

- Excellent work on the list Ken!

- The number of posts is just too large...

- Lots of good info on the list. Would be nice to split
new/old tho.

- Although I learn from both lists I still don't have the
"old" iron that I want...Just the newer truck.

- I think that splitting would be a good idea.

- Ken, Thank You VERY much for the FORDTRUCKS list. You do
a splendid and very democratic job running it. Thank You
for all Your time to provide this excellent service for
us. My modest check is in the mail to help cover Your
expenses. Thanx again, xxxxx

- Traffic is so high, It would really benefit me more to
have the list split.

- the -80's / 80's+ is a good idea.

- Being that the number of digests per day has increased
tremendously, I am in favor of a split. However, based
on my interest in Ford trucks, I believe the split
should occur somewhere in the early 70s. Other than
some electronics, the mechanicals of my 7x are amazingly
similar to those of my 9x.


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:10:45 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Vote info - for newcomers
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To those who are new to the list I forgot to mention the
issue we voted on. We voted to split the list into two
lists: 1980 and later trucks, and pre-1980 trucks.

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there):


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:16:02 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: 1965 Ford F-100 Owners Manual
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:00 PM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I am currently restoring a 1965 F-100. Does anyone know where I can
>obtain an owners manual?

Melvin's Classic Fords, Obsolete Ford, Carolina Classics and F100
Connection (amount others). All on the suppliers page of the web

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there):


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:54:58 -0500
From: Gardner
Subject: Shocks for 94 Ranger
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I am looking for recommendations on shocks for my truck. I waas looking
at something like the edelbrock performance IAS or sensatrak by monroe.
I not sure if edelbrock makes shocks for this application, if you do
please let me know! Thanks in advance. Keep of the good work Ken


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 19:39:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: MAP woes
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What is the code that you are getting? (I have never heard of
a "hooped" MAP sensor.)


Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 20:36:02 -0400
From: Rick Waldbart
Subject: Ideal Rig
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Hello, I=92m new to the list and would appreciate some help in putting
together an ideal vehicle for work and play applications in a Ford
pickup. I=92m well aware that there are several different ways that the
pieces of what I have in mind could be put together, but would like some
thoughts about whether the rig, as is, is unrealistic=85all the other
combinations are more complicated .

I=92m willing to buy a new (gasp!) F350 cab-chassis, with the 7.3
Powerstroke diesel, and put a low profile service or utility body as the
bed. Other options would include dual rear wheels, 4 (or is it 6?)WD,
and crew cab. I=92d put a 9=92 camper slide in on top of the service body=
=2E =

Some models, but not all, will fit. In addition, the extra fuel tank
would be ideal. There would be two or three extra batteries along with
two solar panels. Even though the dry weight of the slide in isn=92t too
bad, I=92d be surprised if the whole camper portion didn=92t weigh about
5,000 or so pounds with other options and fluids.

There would be a 6 to 7,000 lb. boat to tow much of the time. There
would be a small extender hitch. =


My best guess it that the truck - camper combo is too heavy for the
GVWR after the 4 WD and crew cab is added. Some estimates are that there
is less than 2,000 lb of payload capacity left over and I don=92t know if=

I should forget the whole thing. Even if it would roll down the
road, it wouldn=92t be safe and would not last as long as I=92d like.

Some =91informed=92 friends say, "Too heavy". Other folks, and of course=
dealers assure me it=92s going to be fine.

I haven=92t priced out the F450 but might consider that. I do know that i=
doesn=92t come with factory 4 WD and am not familiar with how well
the after market conversions do over time. =


Thanks for your help. I=92ll look forward to seeing thoughts posted, or
email me privately.

Rick Waldbart


Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:46:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Split Fire

Not worth the money. I haven't talked to anyone who will say that they are
worth the money.

End of fordtrucks-digest Digest V97 Issue #90
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