Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:35:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: (fordtrucks80up-digest)
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #131

fordtrucks80up-digest Thursday, September 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 131

Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130 [Bob ]
re: Late 80's OD 4 speed in F150's []
re:limited slip 2wd f250 [Flip Forsberg ]
Battery Isolator ["Leo Mosley" ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130 [Bill Funk ]
Re: radio []
Re: radio []
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #126 []
Re: HO or not? []
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130 []
RADIO ["Jeff Wey" ]
We have our domain now and who sent the 1998 photos? [Ken Payne
re:radio []
re:radio [Carl Warren Levin ]
Fast Idle Problem [Richard Vaughan ]
Re: Overheating Problems ["Steve Irving" ]
Re: Fast Idle Problem [Thundercraft ]
Re: radio [William Holmes ]
Re: Tire Question []
Re: Mass Air conversion []
RE: Ford Winch Systems [ (quadrai)]
Re: Ford F-150 Mileage, Cold Start Problem, and Misc. ["Shawn & Jennifer ]



Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:56:20 -0800
From: Bob
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130

> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:53:29 -0400
> From: William Holmes
> Subject: radio
> How do I get the stock radio out of my 92 ford F150?? There is > 4 holes around the radip face, could this be a way in?

Yes. If you dont have a set of DIN tools, you can pop it out with
anything small enough to fit in the hole. ( Coat hanger, small
screwdriver...) You wont hurt anything by doing this. If you dont want
to pop it out yourself, go to ANY car stereo shop and they will probably
pop it out for free. Once out just unplug the harness on the back and
get an adapter for whatever brand head-unit you want.

Anchrorage, Alaska


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 13:09:15 -0700
Subject: re: Late 80's OD 4 speed in F150's

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Hi Jim,

I own an 88 F150 with a 5 speed transmission. This one was OEM'd from
Mazda and from what I've heard, is sensitive with it's 5th gear.
Apparently it will NOT hold up when excessive loads are applied (Large
loads in the bed, towing, etc). The factory manual even states that
you should NOT use the OD 5th gear when pulling an incline.
I believe FORD did make another manual transmission, but I don't have
the details on this.



>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:39:47 -0600
>From: Jim Hodgers
>Subject: Late 80's OD 4 speed in F150's
>I have a 1970 Toyota Landcruiser. I love it except the
>rear end ratio is just too low. Advance adapters makes
>an adapter for a small block Ford with the light duty
>overdrive 4 speed that was available in 1985 or newer
>F150 pickups. Now a 351W and a good 4 speed would be
>nice in that vehicle!! Members in my 4WD club are partial to
>Chevy conversion into those trucks. Two of them are
>warning me that this tranny is very fragile. Now I'm a fairly
>conservative driver so if its not too fragile it might bo OK.
>I'm somewhat discounting what these guys say as they are
>Chevy fans and might be overstating the problems.
>converting from 4.11's to 3.73's would also cure the problem
>but subtract from off road performance so I'd rather an OD.
>** This message coming to you from the Mts. of Colorado**


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:46:23 -0400
From: Flip Forsberg
Subject: re:limited slip 2wd f250

Hi I had the limited slip rear end retrofitted by Ford in my 1989 f-250
when it had 15000 miles on it.Now has 180000 miles.Cost about 1200
bucks,but it was worth it.Flip Forsberg


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:02:44 -0700
From: "Leo Mosley"
Subject: Battery Isolator

I have a friend who has recently installed a battery isolator switch for his
trailer battery in a F-150 with a 351 Engine (model year 1991, I think). This
is one of those solenoid switches that allow alternator output (ie connects
truck and trailer batteries) to the trailer battery when the ignition switch is
on, and isolates the trailer battery when ignition is off. The switching is
done by a line from a 12V "ignition on" power source. The first time it was
connected up, his truck seemed to miss on acceleration. The dealer who did this
moved the connection to the hot wire for his wipers, saying that the original
spot (not sure where that was) was causing the problem. Although performance
has improved, he is still experiencing some hesitation. Any one else ran into
this, and if so is there a better place to tie into a 12V "ignition on" source.
This one puzzles me, as I am having trouble seeing why this would affect
performance, but it seems to!
87 F-150, 302


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:55:28 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130

> From: bigguy
> Subject: Overheating Problems
> I have an 85' E350 van with a 351W engine. I have had overheating
> problems everytime it is idle for more than a minute or so. When the
> van is moving at a good speed the temp stays relatively cool. I just
> put a new thermostat in and a coolant change and I checked the timing
> to
> try to resolve the problem. There was no change at all except it
> might
> have gotten worse when I changed the thermostat. I put a 195 degree
> thermostat in because the guy at the auto part store said that was
> best
> to keep the temprature down. As far as the timing I am not totally
> shure where to align the mark with the one on the harmonic balancer.
> I
> see a metal bracket connected to the timing cover but it is a big
> bracket and there is lots of places to line it up. I have been lining
> it up with the staight edge on the bracket with the eight degree mark
> on
> the balancer. The manual does not tell me where exactly to line up
> the
> marks. I also replaced the timing chain and the water pump about six
> months ago and everything was fine up till a month ago. I forgot to
> add
> earlier that I also replaced the fan and clutch to help try to resolve
> the problem but I am not positive that it is working properly.
> Jim

The symptoms point to a classic case of not getting enough air through
the radiator while idling, to cool the coolant.
Several ideas come to mind; the fan clutch could be bad. The water pump
could be bad. The radiator itself could need cleaning out. But, the fact
that the temp is OK at speed really points to a lack of air flow, which,
if the fan is good and the pump is OK, means the fan clutch is suspect.
Good luck!


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:04:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: radio

those four holes are the way to get it out, you dont need a special tool, all
you need is one clothes hanger, cut it up into four pieces and use those to
pry it out. all it is is four friction clips if you use the hangers to pry
them up then you can slide out the radio. i changed the radio in my 93
Ranger, it took about 2 min. if need more help write back
93 Ford Ranger


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:45:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: radio

William where do you live?


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:20:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #126

I've been search for information on the new 1999 ford f-350. I can't seem to
find anything! Any information anybody has would be greatly appericated.




Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:19:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: HO or not?

[lot's of snips to save space]

In a message dated 97-09-23 21:09:54 EDT, you write:

2) Does my truck have the Speed Density or Mass Air intake on it ?
we have an 88 F150 and it is definitely SD. However the 95 we just
sold has an additional gadget right next to the air cleaner on the driver
side, that I believe is the MAF unit for the Mass air set up. Forget what
year they changed over

3) If it has the Speed Density, Who makes a mass air kit for it ?
I have the Ford Motorsport catalog here, and they dont list one
for the E4OD, only a manual and the AOD. Whats the difference ?
Are they street legal ?
see 2 above.

I am not looking for a hot-rod truck, just one that has a little more
Dave Lampert

Good questions!

2) That gadget next to the air cleaner means you've got the Mass Air (is it a
California truck?)

3) The Ford Motorsport catalog I have indicates three Mass Air conversion
kits, including one for the 351 w/E4OD. My SVO dealer tells me that changing
the cam in my '92 F150 302 w/3.55's to the HO cam (the Mustang's cam) will
change the engine timing so that this Mass Air conversion will work.

More Umph: In recent posts, I've mentioned recent changes which have given
me more than a one hundred horsepower increase (along with additional
torque). Still running on the Speed Density computer. My dealer tells me it
is street legal. Fuel mileage for the first 400 miles is consistant with
previous 14+ mpg with my 50/50 combination driving (including lots of blasts
on the throttle!).

- -David


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #130

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:53:29 -0400
From: William Holmes
Subject: radio

How do I get the stock radio out of my 92 ford F150?? There is 4
holes around the radip face, could this be a way in?

Wal-Mart has a tools for this. There are two U shaped tools that push into
the holes. When they are both inserted, simply pull the radio straight out.
It's REALLY simple. The tools cost me less than $5. Out of curiosity, does
your stock radio have cassette? If so, would you be interested in selling it?
I only have AM/FM in my 96 F250.


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:21:58 -0000
From: "Jeff Wey"
Subject: RADIO

William, the easiest way to remove the radio is to cut a coathanger into 6
inch piece and then bend it into a u shape that lines up to the holes.
Insert till you hear a click then push tool outwards(towards doors) then
pull radio out. It helps to have an extra set of hands to prevent radio
from slipping back in.


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:14:25 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: We have our domain now and who sent the 1998 photos?

First, who sent the night photos of the 1999 prototype in
a shopping center parking lot? Just wanted that person to
email me, I lost the orginal email. I've got the pics scanned
and have been able to enhance them enough to put on the
web site. Before anyone gets upset, these aren't spy

Forgot to announce this on this list, the other two already
know about it:

Our new web site with our new domain is up and running!

Minor changes have been made and major changes are in the
works (such as some Java applets I'm writing).

I've made a request on the page seeking another advertiser
to help cover the expenses as they are now about $45 a
month with the new server. Our current advertiser pays
$25 a month. As always, advertisers have no influence on
the list topics. If anyone has strong objections to me
seeking another advertiser, let me know. I think you'll
see by the prices that this is not going to be a money maker.



Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:40:08 -0000
From: "Jeff Wey"

Mike, I dropped a 94 explorer using belltech i-beams from a 94 ranger they
worked fine.The back was dropped with shackles and dearched springs.I know
of noone that builds spindles.There are several places that sell complete
kits/also some you can get pieces/some even have airbags to replace coil
springs. If interested e-mail me at


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:34:54 -0500
Subject: re:radio

You can go to any parts store and buy the removal tools... there are two of
them in the set... costs about $5 be sure to get the right set . there
are sets for GM and ford... they are not interchangeable...

John Hughes,

F250 supercab diesel pulling a 34 ft Holiday Rambler Travel Trailer

At 02:11 PM 9/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Those 4 holes are used to take out the radio. A special tool is used
>to get it out. Where do ya get one? I haven't a clue. Ford dealers
>have them, talk to the service department to borrow one. You can
>also check with a Best Buy or somebody that sells and installs
>stereos. Talk to the service dept. and see if they can help ya.
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to |
>+-- Visit Our Web Site: --+


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Warren Levin
Subject: re:radio

The coat hanger works just fine. Why buy a special tool you'll use only
once. Just take a common coat hanger and bend it so that it is in a U
shape and insert each end in the little holes until the radio releases.
Ie. You need to put coat hanger ends in all 4 holes at once. Good luck it
really is no big deal.

"Any culture that surrenders it's vision and it's self sustaining
values to the narrow judgement of commerce will be neither free
nor just" Ralph Nader
Carl Levin Portland, Oregon


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:45:08 -0700
From: Richard Vaughan
Subject: Fast Idle Problem

I have a 1990 F250, 4X4, 5.8 motor with 33K miles. The rig is stock
except for a cat back Flowmaster. The truck starts easily and runs
great. However, it does have an intermitent problem with the engine
idle. Most of the time it is OK. Sometimes it will idle at 1500 RPM,
or higher. It will not slow down even if I rev the engine and then
back off the throttle. If I shut the motor off and immediately
restart it the idle returns to normal. (about 800 RPM in neutral). The
problem occurs randomly after the motor is warmed up. I'm stumped. Any
ideas? I would appreciate any and all advice. Thank you in advance for
your help.



Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:45:45 -0700
From: "Steve Irving"
Subject: Re: Overheating Problems

Ummm......t-stat does a couple things. First, it determines how quickly the
engine warms up to operating temp.
The longer it stays closed (higher temp t-stat ex. 195 degree), the quicker
the engine warms up. acts as a restriction in the cooling system to slow down the
flow of coolant. If you don't think #2 is true, try pulling the t-stat out
and watch the engine overheat......coolant runs through the radiator too
fast to be cooled down without a t-stat.

Just the thoughts of a guy who did 17 out of 21 years wrenching here in the

Steve Irving - Nighthawk Systems/Phoenix Arizona

>I thought that the 160 degree thermostat would keep things cooler too. The
>at the parts store told me that when you put a 160 in it is always moving
>around, but when you put a 195 it keeps it in the engine longer, but it
>keep it in the radiator longer thus cooling the coolant much more than if
>was always cycleing through the engine. Tell me if this is correct or not.


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:05:39 -0700
From: Thundercraft
Subject: Re: Fast Idle Problem

Richard Vaughan wrote:
> I have a 1990 F250, 4X4, 5.8 motor with 33K miles. The rig is stock
> except for a cat back Flowmaster. The truck starts easily and runs
> great. However, it does have an intermitent problem with the engine
> idle. Most of the time it is OK. Sometimes it will idle at 1500 RPM,
> or higher. It will not slow down even if I rev the engine and then
> back off the throttle. If I shut the motor off and immediately
> restart it the idle returns to normal. (about 800 RPM in neutral). The
> problem occurs randomly after the motor is warmed up. I'm stumped. Any
> ideas? I would appreciate any and all advice. Thank you in advance for
> your help.
I had a similar problem with my Ford 3.0L (car) engine. Took it into
the shop once and came out a few hundred dollars poorer. The culprit
was an exhaust pressure sensor (connected to the pipe leading to the
egr). The second time this happened (about a year later) I tried
ignoring it for a while. During this time I installed a Jacobs Ignition
system. Mysteriously the problem went away. Some 8000 miles later and
the fast idle problem has not returned.

Note that I did get some intermittent relief by cleaning the electrical
connection to the sensor.

Also, the engine has about 112,000 miles (180000 Kilometers).

Not that I'm trying to sell you on a new ignition system, its just that
my guess is that either an oxygen sensor is not working right, you have
a poor pressure sensor, or you have incomplete combustion.


Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:13:57 -0400
From: William Holmes
Subject: Re: radio

At 07:45 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>William where do you live?
.---. .-----------
/ \ __ / ------ Wm Holmes
/ / \(..)/ ----- 1071 Howard Dr.
////// ' \/ ` --- Greenville,Oh 45331
//// / // : : ---
// / / /` '-- Greenville Ohio Police Dept.
// //..\\
=======UU====UU===Police Officer...Protecting and Serving


Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:22:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Tire Question

In a message dated 97-09-23 08:27:36 EDT, you write:

have a
Tall Tire Pros & Cons: what works - what doesn't when you run big meats.
all-terrain vs mud tread AND wheel sizing secrets. It also talks about
backsapcing tips and has a good comparo between BFG tires (All-terrain, Mud
Terrain, Trail, Baja, and Sport) . Anyway, check it out if you can.

Jerad Heffner
'84 Ranger 4x4 wrote:

> A bit of a tire question I am looking for tires for my 1995 F150 4X2 and
> looking to get the widest and biggest tires I can have I do not have a
> or anything special like that I was thinking about some 31X12.5 or so how
> does that sound some feedback would be nice
> Thanks

Excellent articles, Jerad! I think my next set will be the BFG All

Personal experience with 31x10.5" on factory 7.5" wheels on my stock
suspension '92 F150 4x4 is that they would rub the radius arms at full
steering lock. Aftermarket 8" wheels cured the problem; just went with the
normal backspacing. Now I've got 30x9.5" snow tires on the factory wheels
and they work great.

- -David :-)


Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:20:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Mass Air conversion

In a message dated 97-09-15 11:04:24 EDT, you write:

while. Everytime I call Motorsport tech line, they say, "Nope, still not
delivering that thing."

Even though they have this in the SVO catalog?

I've been doing business with an authorized Ford Motorsport dealer who wants
to wait until October to go the next round; this Lightning Mass Air and H.O.
cam. I wonder if they're just stalling because the part isn't ready yet!

The more I read about the Ford EEC-IV, oxygen sensors, Mass Air, and Speed
Density the more confused I get about why we should convert to Mass Air.
Especially after my dealer told me I'd be street legal after so many changes
to my engine -- and you're not helping with your super charger. Doesn't all
this change the "air pump" characteristics to the point where the computer
needs to be reprogrammed? And isn't the point to have Mass Air so that it
eliminates the air pump characteristic from the equation?

Take care,
- -David :-)


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:23:11 -0700
From: (quadrai)
Subject: RE: Ford Winch Systems

I recently purchased a 1994 Ford F150 (300) 6 cyl. 4x4. I want to install a
front winch. After much research, it seems that electric winch systems are
only for very limited applications where PTO or hydraulic winches can be
depended upon for more applications. The real rub for PTO winches is setting
up the drive linkage around the front axle drive in a 4X4. Also, you have to
make your own bumper system. The Hydraulic winches seem to have the best of
all worlds, but may be very costly operation. I want to adapt the attractive
electric winch bumper systems, such as, the F150 wrap around w/ Bush Guard
normall y designed for electric winches. Need input ????



Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:29:15 -0500
From: "Shawn & Jennifer Clark"
Subject: Re: Ford F-150 Mileage, Cold Start Problem, and Misc.


Lump me in with the crowd of F-150 owners with lousy mileage. I'm
averaging about 13 mpg city and highway (including a long trip with several
fills--13.3 mpg consistently.) The truck is a '91 with Supercab, 302, and
the E4OD transmission (new one, previous owner replaced the old one at
80K--about standard for domestic trucks and vans based on everyone I know
who owns one that long...) Anyway, the engine runs pretty strong,
stronger than any of the other used Ford trucks I test drove. For some
reason the mileage sucks. I have tried replacing the O2 sensor and
increasing tire pressure (it was low) without much effect. Tried reading
codes, but did not get any besides the standard "I'm OK". Previous owner
had a bunch of service done about 6 months before I bought it (wires,
distributor, plugs, fuel filter, EGR valve sensor, etc.) Most of the
vacuum lines look new, plugs looked OK, etc. I ran fuel injector cleaner
through both tanks, no difference.

I also have consistent trouble with the thing dying after a cold start, but
only when the AC is on. This seems to be just enough of a load to kill it
after a few seconds if I don't give it some juice. Ratio seems screwed up
because when I first give it some throttle, it stumbles. Doesn't seem to
be limited to one tank or the other, I have tried both. It always runs
fine after being restarted or giving it enough juice to get past the

Other gripes: 1. The AC pressure switch died suddenly while the wife was
driving it with a load of ladies to a wedding on a hot day--bad timing but
at least it was a cheap fix and the AC works great now. 2. Exhaust
manifold is cracked completely in two behind the last cylinder on the
passenger side. Looks like poor, cantilevered design. It seals up within
a few seconds of starting. 3. What the hell was Ford thinking with those
cheesy lug-nuts ("alloy" ones with the press fit cap)? If you look at them
funny, the cap comes off and you end up with two different size lug nuts.
I won't even get into what this means to some lady driving around without a
cross lug-nut wrench in the truck to change a flat. 4. Paint, what paint?
5. I keep losing coolant out of the reservoir, slow process, have never
caught it bubbling or anything like that although I keep trying. 6. Some
jack-ass stripped the oil drain plug by overtorquing (hope it is only the
plug) so it drips oil slowly at the plug even after I did an oil change and
used a gasket--unlike aforementioned Neanderthal. Took me two weeks to get
a new plug--no one carries a drain plug for F-150 302's, what is the world
coming to???--I called all around before I ordered one.

The plan: Think I'll try some different spark plugs. NGK's work great in
my other cars, wonder how they will do in the 302. I'll try a new plug in
the oil pan at the next oil change. I put a K&N drop in filter in it the
other day. Seems to be a little stronger, but not nearly as much as my
other vehicles improvement with full-cone filters. I'll time it when I get
a chance. The filter I replaced was new. Did notice that it didn't die
with AC on after a cold start although the idle dipped...perhaps the K&N is
making a shade of difference even at idle. Still need to try this a few
times to confirm.

Shawn Clark


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