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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Thu, 02 Mar 2000 06:46:53 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 06:46:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server>
To: 80-96-list digest users>
Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #22
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80-96-list Digest Wed, 01 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 022

In This Issue:
Re: Daystar lift/leveling block
Re: Cheap Fuel, Really???
Re: Vacuum and mixtures
Re: There's hope for the old beast yet!
Re: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase
Priceline - Name your price for gasoline!
ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!!
Matter Of Principal
Re: Propane


From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)">
Subject: Re: Daystar lift/leveling block
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:50:49 -0500

Never used them but if they are the type that go under the spring and are
secured to the axle and less than 2" of lift they are probably safe. More
lift will put too much stress on the bolts and if it is not secured with the
original location by the original "type" bolts then it may not be secure

DO NOT USE SPRING SPREADERS, they are dangerous. I know nascar and indy
cars use them but they are very special design and material. The stuff you
get at auto parts is not good enough IMHO and is not recommended for off
road in any case, regardless of design due to spring stresses they create.

If your alignment is already spot on then they will certainly change the
camber alignment on an IFS system but not on a live axle (will change the
caster on a live axle though but probably not significantly :-))

Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

>Has anyone ever used Daystar lift/level blocks under the front
>coils of a
>F-150? I want to lift the front up and add springs to the rear
>but do they
>mess up your alignment?


From: Eric Sneed REIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cheap Fuel, Really???
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:48:47 -0800

Not to mention that there are morans who enjoy getting "high" on the stuff.


-----Original Message-----
From: les williams []
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:36 AM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Cheap Fuel, Really???

Hi All,

Well, it's finally happened, the continuing rise in the cost of fuel
has brought
the entrepreneurial best in fuel reselling. It's now official, lead
story on
the evening tv news, the petrol is being 'cut' with tax free toluene
up to 50%,
somewhere after it leaves the refinery and getting to the
destination drop.
This practice has always been of suspicious nature for some time
now, but to the
end consumer, difficult to prove. To make matters worst there is no
way of
telling which servo's are doing it. Oh, they sell the petrol at the
normal high
price, it's their bottom line profit that's benefiting.
Hmmm, is this yet another advantage of LPG?? Very difficult to
'cut', but not
impossible ....

O.K now the question: How much damage does this blend cause to the
fuel system?
We have already found out that it makes damn fine paint stripper.

Lost in the Land of OZ

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From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)">
Subject: Re: Vacuum and mixtures
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:25:03 -0500

First you make sure that the carb gaskets are all in good shape and not
allowing any air to get in, then you test the throttle shafts for air
leakage with some kind of solvent spray or propane (not ether or hot shot,
it's too dangerous while engine is running).

Make sure the timing is correct and operating correctly, both mechanical and
vac linkage etc..

If all checks out then you begin the process of idling it down and adjusting
the mixture screws for best idle speed and smoothness. For best results by
ear I like to get it to idle as slowly as possible. Turn both mixture
screws in carefully and gently til they come to the seat and back them out
about 1-1/2 turns and try to start it. Always make the same adjustment on
both sides but use one side for the gauge and then bring the other to it and
repeat until you can't get any more improvement. After the first adjustment
you will need to slow it down again and so on. The engine will falter at
both rich and lean settings so to start you go both ways and find the median
setting untill you get it close, then you can use a sensitive vac gauge or
tach to fine tune it but keep in mind that even though it runs faster with a
lean mixture it will begin to miss if it's too lean.

Some carbs are more sensitive to idle mixture for the transition so you have
to leave it richer than you might like in those cases. Rev the engine after
each adjustment to clean it out and test the transition. If it chokes you
need to look at the tune, either the mixture or the timing until it revs
smoothly from a slow idle. If all else fails you may also need to idle it a
little faster to get a good transition.

I always aim for the leanest idle I can get and still get a good transition
to "off Idle" and have it smooth as well.

Of course the accellerator pump, and on Holley's the power valve both have a
part to play in all this too for the transition. It's really a combination
of these things but idle mixture plays an important part too.

Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

>While we are on the subject, what is the proper way to adjust
>the air/ fuel
>mixture, and not have it to lean or to rich, and what are some obvious


From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)">
Subject: Re: There's hope for the old beast yet!
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:20:58 -0500

Try bleeding the pump first by jacking up the front end so the tires are off
the ground (to save flat spotting them and make it easier to turn the wheel)
and rotate the steering from lock to lock very slowly with engine off
several times. If you do it too fast you will force fluid out the cap. If
several attempts at this do not eliminate the air which is what is making
the noise then you may, indeed, need a pump. While still jacked up, starte
it and test it and do it again if you have to, several times.

Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

>1. Can I fix the power steering pump cheap?


Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 17:52:35 -0800
From: scott>
Subject: Propane

All this talk about propane conversions has been quite informative.
I'm also a government employee who has to endure poorly performing
propane powered vehicles.
I always blamed it on the propane,but I now realize it could be a low
bid conversion that is to blame for the poor performance.
The comment about state trucks never having anything in the back of
them does not apply in our case.Some government employees actually have
to work.Our trucks are usually full of shovels and other tools and
materials.A in bed tank is a royal pain for us as you have to either
crawl over all the tools or unload them to fill the tank.(Why does the
fill valve have to be in the center of the tank?)We have to fill them
quite often as (probably due to low bid)the tanks are quite small and
won't last a week.
The last truck we had converted has 2 tanks mounted up under the bed so
well that they are invisible without crawling under it.They also ran a
line to the original hole behind the fuel door for filling.Real sanitary
I'm still not convinced propane is for me,but at least now I realize
it's potential.


Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:51:25 -0500
From: Ken Payne>
Subject: Re: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase

At 08:43 AM 2/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>I was thinking of buying an older Ford van under $3000.
>My Ford Explorer while nice, is a little undersized for my towing and cargo
>space requirements (car hauling and swap meets).
>I was considering an E-150, but I'd really like an E-250 or E-350 with a 6.9
>diesel or the 460 gas engine.
>Is the 6.9 diesel reliable or troublesome?

I've heard both good and bad. Supposedly, it has cavitation problems
but I've also heard many people say they are trouble-free.

>A guy I knew who was a shop foreman for Overnight told me that the "small"
>Ford diesels in their fleet leaked oil, ate starters and flywheels, etc.
>Are there any appreciable gas mileage and torque advantages with the 6.9
>diesel vs. the 351 or 460 gas engines?

Depends on the load. If the 351 is overloaded, it'll eat more
gas than the 460. In my opinion, if most miles are not to
shows, get the 351. If they are mostly to shows/swap meets,
you'll get frustrated with the 351.



From: "Harris, Scott">
Subject: Priceline - Name your price for gasoline!
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:18:51 -0600

Not sure how many of you have used and I haven't heard
anything but what has been on their ads. But I heard this on the radio on
the way home this am. Seems that they have a plan to sell gas like they
sell everything else, the more people signing up for it brings the price
down. After you sign up you receive a card in the mail with a list of
participating gas stations in your area. The link below has all the details
including a sign up sheet and a ton of faq's. Think I may have to try this
myself as gas nears $1.50 a gallon here.

-- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar --
-- Type: application/octet-stream
-- File: Priceline - Name your price for gasoline!.url


Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:52:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne>
Subject: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!!

Ford Truck Enthusiasts is pleased to announce the addition
of an all new free feature for our users!


We've registered the domain for email
address use.

An automated sign up page will be added this weekend and
the mail service will be activated then. This is a full
blown, ***fast*** web based email package, that includes
pretty much everything Hotmail, Yahoo mail, etc have and
more. It cost us plenty, but I think everyone will enjoy
using it and we've always had the policy of offering more
to our users as we can afford it. Plus an added benefit,
a vanity address perfect for all us Ford truck lovers.

AFTE club members will receive as part of their membership
an enhanced version of the web mail, which has increased
mail quotas and spell checking, plus outgoing email from
AFTE members will have their member number appended to
list postings!

The public sign-up will be this weekend, but now is your
chance to grab a desired address, on a first come first
serve basis.

If you would like to have an address, please send the
following to

Current email address:
Desired email address (
Desired password:
Year and model of Ford trucks you own (we're going to
use part of the mail database for a registry!).

You'll receive complete usage instructions this weekend.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


From: (Jerome Kelly)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 04:27:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Matter Of Principal

I have decided I will always be ripped off by the oil cartel. I have
watched a lot of you guys give your pros and cons about
LPG. You could be accurate on a lot of
what you say. Now wheres the beef?
I am tired of the camel headed goat breath sand maggots who eat away at
I propose that all vehicles that are used
in the United States be propane. We should not need so many E-checks.
would cut down some cost on taxes. All
the parts glutton people can kiss out $$
also. Clean fuel should knock their butts
out of some robbery they pull on us. Our
air will be cleaner. Maybe so clean we can do away with a good portion
of the EPA. Should be some more tax money saved if
the political whores don't try to steal or hide the savings. Lets
except high fuel
prices but lets pay it to our own country.
The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Now this should help our economy and
create more jobs here. I am for my country and its citizens. Lets bust
$$ for good. Ban Arab oil from the United States forever. If we run out
propane, lets burn alcohol and support our farmers. This will leave less
cheap corn
for them to use. Lets do it because we can. As you can tell I am more
that a little
PO at this situation. It has gone on to long for me. Time to end the


From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)">
Subject: Re: Propane
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:48:45 -0500

Remember the discussion originally brought out the fact that a propane
engine must have a very high compression ratio to get all the use from the
fuel, much higher than anything currently being produced by OEM's. That is
just one item that must be altered. When they convert a vehicle they simply
add the fuel supply stuff on an engine not intended to be used with propane
so it doesn't matter how poorly or how well it is installed, is still will
perform poorly due to this.

As was mentioned, you must build an engine to suit it's purpose. When you
add a blower you also must allow for the increase in volumetric efficiency
and increased terminal cylinder pressure which affects the detonation
potential etc.. With propane you have similar considerations but to gain
the most power from the fuel etc....

It's sort or like trying to explain to a customer that he just spent $185 on
a tune up and the car doesn't run any better and may even run worse.......a
car with 200k miles on it that is. No tune up in the world will help that
engine so the mechanic's ability is not even in the loop. That is not to
say there are no bad mechanics or bad installs, just that they have little
impact on a hopeless situation :-)

Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

> I always blamed it on the propane,but I now realize it could be a low
>bid conversion that is to blame for the poor performance.


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