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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Fri, 19 May 2000 18:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server>
To: 61-79-list digest users>
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #103
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61-79-list Digest Thu, 18 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 103

In This Issue:
'79 questions/Galvanize refurbishing
Re: Microfishe Readers
Re: drums and shoes
Re: 71 429 4 Barrel $75
Re: drums and shoes
Re: drums and shoes
Re: Fwd: 69 bronco front end
65 progress
Re: [Fwd: 69 bronco front end]


From: "Harvey, Blaine">
Subject: '79 questions/Galvanize refurbishing
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:15:50 -0400

The 79 F-150 is slowly getting there. Frame painted, brakes done, new gas
tank etc etc. Gone to body shop for new cab corners and a spray.

Surprised how many hours this project has eaten up. But its fun, especially
figuring out how to find various parts and then buying all those new parts
Anyway, a couple of questions.

1) The galvanized inner fenders, or whatever they are called really look
dingy. Does anyone have any tips on getting some lustre back into them,
short of painting them?

2) I think I need new tranny lines. The truck sat so long that they are
pinholed with rust. What size would they be? How does one go about replacing
them? I plan to put in a tranny cooler--a stacked plate design.



From: "Ross Johansson">
Subject: Re: Microfishe Readers
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:48:09 -0800

I was told the microfiche reader link didnt work.... sorry

try one of these...


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:31:19 -0500
Subject: Re: drums and shoes
From: John LaGrone>

on 5/18/2000 10:31 AM, wish at wrote:

>> in the box there were two
>> types of shoes ones with a longer pad ones with a shorter pad. The box
>> listed them as primary and I put the primary ones on the
>> leading side and the secondary pads on the trailing side. Brakes seem to
>> work fine.. any thoughts
> This is absolutely correct ... they are labelled as such because the primary
> is pulled into the drum by the rotation of the drum, and the secondary is
> pushed
> away because of the rotation, this means more surface area is required on the
> secondary to equal the same stopping force as the primary.

Well, now I was always taught the other way around, that the long shoe went
on the back because it bore more load as inertia is carrying the vehicle
into this shoe and away from the front shoe. I think if you put the short
shoe on the back it will be carrying more load and wear out a lot faster.
Also, on the back brakes, the emergency brake cable is hooked to the rear
shoe. In the event of spring failure or other mechanism failure, this will
give more surface area against the drum with the shoe that is making

Wish is right about the rear shoe being pulled into the drum. The pivot
point is at the top. Dual or split piston systems supposedly do away with
this inequity.

-- John <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:14:07 EDT
Subject: Re: 71 429 4 Barrel $75

Well now that I have some of you guys attencion. There is a 71 4 barrel 429
in a local you pull it yard here in Denver. They will want $75 for the long
block, maybe a little more with the exhaust manifolds. DOVE everything. Looks
to be in pretty good shape. Since I'm stuck with the kids for the rest of the
week I can't go get it. (I don't no why they won't allow kids, no more
dangerous than the junkyard at home) If someone is interested in it give me a
call, however I do want a commission. 15 pack of the local brew should do it.

Terry Weaver


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:08:33 -0700
From: Marv & Marge>
Subject: Re: drums and shoes

Bruce Montcombroux BrandonU.CA> wrote:
> I just put new front drums and shoes on my 65 I put the primary ones on the
> leading side and the secondary pads on the trailing side.

Wish replied:
> This is absolutely correct ... they are labelled as such because the primary
> is pulled into the drum by the rotation of the drum, and the secondary is pushed
> away because of the rotation, this means more surface area is required on the
> secondary to equal the same stopping force as the primary.

This is just the reverse from how I learned it. The primary (larger) shoe is the
"anchored" shoe. That is: it's the one that is pushed into the anchor pin and
cannot rotate (not ever so slightly). This is in the normal wheel rotation
direction, car moving forward. The secondary, smaller, shoe, is the one that is
pushed upon by the hydraulic wheel cylinder, and actually moves out into the drum to
take up the space that is the normal clearence. Note that both shoes may appear to
be acted upon by the cylinder. In reality, however, when the drum is turning, only
the secondary shoe moves. Thus, the larger padded shoes would normally go on the
vehicle farther toward the rear than the smaller-padded ones. This would not be true
if the anchor pin and cylinder were at the bottom of the backing plate, however.
The reason for the different sizes is that the primary shoe contacts the drum with a bit
more pressure and friction. It is larger to compensate for the greater wear
that would occur if it weren't larger, the purpose being that both shoes wear out
at the same time.

That's how I learned it.



Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:11:41 -0700
From: Jason Derra>
Subject: Re: drums and shoes

Short shoes go toward the front and the long shoes go on toward the rear.

Bruce Montcombroux wrote:

> I just put new front drums and shoes on my 65 the box there were two
> types of shoes ones with a longer pad ones with a shorter pad. The box
> listed them as primary and I put the primary ones on the
> leading side and the secondary pads on the trailing side. Brakes seem to
> work fine.. any thoughts
> Bruce
> 65 Mercury 240 I6
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
> message.


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:48:36 -0700
From: Jason Derra>
Subject: Re: Fwd: 69 bronco front end

If your wanting info for converting your 72 F250, and its original (closed
knuckle front end), I don't think this will work for your truck. If it is a
later model front end though, you can convert it this way, but you would just
substitute the Dana 44 8 lug hubs and rotors (or since the Chevy and Ford 3/4T
bolt patterns are the same, go with all Chev in the front, no one will ever
know). You should still be able to use the 15" wheels, possibly with a little
grinding on the caliper and caliper mounting depending on the style of wheel
you're using.
This is a small write up I did a while back:
My brakes came from a '71-72 1/2ton 4WD Chevy (71-76 will work). I got the
spindle and the caliper mounting brackets for about $30 from a wrecking yard.
The swap is much easier and cheaper than the Ford swap since you don't need to
change the steering
knuckle. It will work for the 30 and the 44. I used the same wheel bearings
from my
original drum brakes. I bought new Chevy calipers (same year as donor truck),
new Ford
hub and rotors (the large wrecking yard here wanted the same price for used as
what I
could get new), I used a Chevy brake hose (again same application). I bought
spindle bearing kits (part #SBK1), packed the wheel bearings, installed the
wheel seals
and just bolted it together. You do need to grind (on the 44 anyways) a little
off of the
steering knuckles so that the caliper will seat and work properly. I have heard
different feelings about using a proportioning valve and a different master
cylinder with the disc brake setup. I personally have not made any changes to
the hydraulic system and have had good luck with it. I only installed a new
master cylinder about 6 months after it was done. It stops evenly front to
rear, has a good pedal feel and works great on the street and on the trail.
And yet another article from the Early Bronco mailing list:
Here's some great info on the Chevy Disc conversion, that I collected from the
LIST to help others in the future! With a little
editing it looks pretty good!

Disk Brakes; D30 & 71-75 Bronco D44

At the Junkyard pick up some 72-76 Chevy D44 spindles, calipers, and caliper
brakets. Make sure they have the 6 bolt pattern, not
the 5 for the knuckle. Then you'll need D44 hub and rotors, just like the F150
stuff. Bearings, seals, flex hose, and your about

Another option is to take everything from the knuckles out, off a F150
including the tierods. I havent done this???

Kevin Lackey added;
I have the parts available including the brackets.
The break down is as follows.
> > > > 77 Bronco hub / rotor assembly $99.00 (each)
> > > > 72 - 76 Chevy Disk Brake calliper $25.00 (each) + $10.00 core
> > > > 72-73 Chevy 1/2 ton 4X4 d44 bracket $45.00 (pair, used cleaned up and
> > > > Bendix D 52 brake pads lifetime warranty $39.00 (pair metalic)
> > > > I have the spindle available now since, JC whitney no longer carries
them. The spinldes are $99.00 each.
There are some seals and bearings also needed for this swap, plus new brake
lines from the chevy.

J. Strube wrote;
There are some things I learned while doing the Chevy swap. One is that the
72-76 Chevy 1/2 ton, Blazer and Jeep Wagoneer and
Cherokee all share the same parts. The Jeeps were easier to find in my local
yard. In 77, they changed the diameter of the
spindles, so they will not work. Actually, it was a mid year change, so some
will, but I looked for earlier ones.
You can get the backing plates and calipers off of all of the above vehicles.
The calipers are easy to rebuild, use compressed air
to disassemble, it does not take much pressure, I used 30 psi. keep fingers
away. the kit is about $1.50 ea.

Since Autozone sells hub/rotor/stud/bearing race assemblies, made in Canada for
only $75, there is no reason to search out a used
hub, the yard will probably want a first born for it anyway. Local, they
wanted $125!!!! (put down the crack pipe buddy)

get the old bolts and sliders. new sliders may or may not be the same length.
I got all new soft parts, but the sliders were
short, and for the hex key type. my bolts were with regular heads, one less
specialty tool to carry. I got them on a 74 I think.

I used braided Earl's stainless steel stuff. The thread on the banjo bolt was
7/16-20, and I got 13" pre-made -4 hoses. I also
bought the ends seperately, one was the inverted flare with a slide on clip
like OEM, and the other was the banjo side. Get the new
bolts, they are a different length. I actually bought Earl's first, then found
that the 7/16-24 bolt was wrong, so had to trade for
ABBCO or something like that, it is roundy round stuff. I also used ABBCO
bolts, as the banjo piece was slightly different, it was
thicker than the Earl's. You don't want the bolt to bottom out or be too
short, so don't mix brands here. These mated just fine
with the stock hard line and mount, after sectioning it to clear the front
shock mounts, which I had to do anyway, because of the
Protofab front hoops. The cost for the Earl's stuff is within $5-10 total of
the rubber stuff, and you can customize the length.
Use only pre-crimped hoses though, from the factory.

-4 AN female swivel both ends size 4 hose, 13" long 64191913
I would make sure the 13" works for your application, I thought it gave me the
best flex, without kinking. It is much shorter than
the Chevy hose, which is about 18".

-4 to 3/8-24 FEM. I.F. (goes to hard line) 989532
Napa p/n 80742 for the clips that hold p/n 989532 to the axle bracket. (Thanks
-4 7/16 hole Banjo (must use Earl's Banjo Bolt) 997604
7/16-20 Banjo Bolt, Single (includes crush washers) 977504

I used the bolt and washer, as I did not get the Chevy outer axles. When
stripping the spindles at the yard, check for improper
disassembly prior, some goons use screwdrivers and fud up the threads. Keep
the inner nuts, you never know when you might need an
John Strube

Todd Z wrote;
> The correct Earl's banjo bolt for the Chevy calipers is p/n 977504.
> Another neat Earl's alternative for the front hoses is to use a set of
> their new Hyperfirm DOT legal hoses they introduced about a year ago.
> You can get some that have a 3/8-24 SAE female end on them on the i.d.
> and threads and a jam nut on the o.d. The threaded piece with a jam nut
> is a nice way to attach the hose to the axle bracket as opposed to the
> old slide clip method. About the only way to get these hoses is through
> mail order(I like Baker,, but like John noted,
> they're only a few $$ more than the stock rubber stuff.

> BTW, a bit of a retraction on some Earl's info I posted a few days back.
I posted the #'s for some Earl's Hyperfirm premade lines that fit the
EB/Chevy conversion setup real well. I put the lines on a few nights ago
and both leaked like a sieve at the same spot. So.....I'd recommend
doing like John Strube did(and what I now have)and just use the -3 lines
with the banjo fitting on one end and the -3/3/8-24 adapter on the other
end w/clips. The setup is even cheaper than the stock rubber hoses!

Todd Z.

Ya I got sump'n to add, the hub /rotors can be used as new as '96. There
are 2 different backing plates from cheby, you want the heavy duty one
that is almost a complete round, the other is a thin backing plate. Both
will work but get the beefy one because.
Max Wood
Richard White has some great pictures, of what Max is talking about at:

The Chevy disc swap seems to be a fashionable topic again, so I put a write up
on my swap online. It outlines the basic steps once
you have parts in hand.
Dan Newberry

If you have any questions,
feel free to email me


Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:34:43 EDT
Subject: 65 progress

I just wanted to write a note to let everybody know the progress of the
project 65.

the 460 is firmly mounted in factory mounts, what an easy swap, didnt even
have to drill any holes. I did have to drill new holes for the rear cross
member, about 1/'12" back from the originals. the PS box required a small
dimple be made in the spring tower to clear it, and a notch had to be cut for
clearance in the inner fender. I went with a tilt collum, I wanted to stay
with the original, but it was about 3-4" too long. several of you gave me
ideas about converting the original tube, but in the end, the tilt won out!
the 65 used some wierd hooks to retain the springs in the towers, so i had to
drill 4 holes as well for the spring retainer clips. i've decided to switch
to a solid driveshaft at 66", unless anybody can convince me otherwise. i
remounted the cab with prothane bushings in all 6 locations to get rid of
that ford sagg. the front suspension is from a 78 and was a direct bolt-in.
the super-duty radatior needs to be dropped an inch or so for hood clearance,
and the shroud may have clearance problems as a result. any of you ever
dealt with this problem? I also had to cut about an inch off the width of
the shroud for it to clear the AC/PS. 65's must be a bit shorter in the hood
compartments than later trucks. I didnt get it to start yet, as all the
wiring must be done still. the dash harness looks like a birds nest with
gobs of splices, its worse than i thought. any ideas on who makes a new
harness for a 65?
Overall, its been a real easy swap, in spite of what the ch*vy guys say about
Fords. Lastly, i found, and installed the chrome valve covers that were on
my hotrod in the 70's. they look really good on this milder version of a
460. I stuck with the manifolds, (truck manifolds that clear the frame
rails) because headers are a hassle. my donor truck (69) had an almost brand
new exhaust which bolted in to the 65. I'll be gone to the northwest for 3
weeks, and i only lack a day or so to make it run :(

Greg Schnakenberg
65 custom cab 460
61 stepside (another story)
61 unibody (sitting in mothballs)


Date: 19 May 00 08:30:29 MDT
From: Brent Dickerson>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 69 bronco front end]

Why remove the body lift and replace with susp. lift??? I have a 3.5" susp.
lift that came with double shocks all around. The lift made handling worse (I
lost caster even with using the correct C-bushings), the shocks are what made
my handling much better. The James Duff shocks are so stiff that I am only
running 1 on each wheel now and still have better handling than stock.
My recommendations:
Verify all steering components are in good shape and working correctly, such
as a good stabilizer, the body lift isn't binding the steering shaft at the
steering box (may need to use a u-joint), you have enough caster (susp. lift
will just make caster worse), track bar bushings are good.

Check out Cross enterprises rear shock hoop. I haven't tried it yet but have
heard that it helps with handling without compromising ride quality. By
tilting the shocks inboard, the shocks work more to stop body roll than susp.

Go ahead and buy shock hoops and stiffer shocks for the front now and see if
it helps the handling like you think it will. wrote:
> -- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar --
> Return-path:>
> From:
> Full-name: SROTH84
> Message-ID:>
> Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:49:20 EDT
> Subject: 69 bronco front end
> To:
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 100
> Hello again,
> I am still researching how to make the '69 bronco safer for my kids. Thanks

> to those of you that responded last time. The two main thoughts are
> 33's and 3" lift make it hard to keep on the road) and braking(mushy).
> I am thinking of rebuilding the front end now. I am told that I need a mid
> '71 to '74 dana 44 front end so that I can convert to disc brakes with
> booster.
> In addition I would look to remove the 3" body lift and replace with 31/2"
> suspension lift and dual shocks on the corners.
> Does anyone know where to get the Dana 44? Are there any additional thoughts

> on either of the two issues?
> Steve in St. Louis
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
> message.


From: "JR">
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:26:45 -0400

There is one more place you can find a nice microfiche reader.................Mine ! ! !
It is the professional kind just like all the Ford Dealers used to use.
In fact, the parts manager from the local parts place suggested I get my own machine for all the looking up he and his staff were doing for me. He made me a deal I couldn't refuse. Its like new and I haven't used it in years. Bell & Howell I think. You can contact off list too for more info.

1969 F350 Dually 351W 4V Performer AOD AC
PB PW PT PT-this list keeps going and going.......and going...............and going...............


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