SKIP to bottom for issues and steps taken thus far)

Intro:: New to the forum basically searching and gathering as much info as I can. To start with I'm new to Fords period but Chevy decided to stop making diesel SUVs before Ford did, plus the Excursion is a bit roomer with better towing and newish body lines. With a family of 7 I was looking for room with towing capacity of a future pull behind rv, occasional boat, and or 22ft trailer of atv's (all used nothing new no ideals of upper-class, or upper middle class money here). Sold my 98 c3500 drw, used money to put toward a third of the loan I later got to pick up a one owner 197K miles 2004 limited Ex 6.0L. Read up on things to before buying but honestly was just happy to find anything in my price range that wasn't beat to hell and back.

(actual problem info)
I've owned it now for about 4 months no issues at all until about 3 weeks ago. First off it began to scare me at intersections with almost no take off power, turbo lag or maybe I wasn't use to the Ford motor yet and have no boost or EGT guage. This turned into what sacred my wallet even more with a flashing Check gauge light and Trans temp gauge erratically pegging out and flashing tow/haul button light, then going back to mid range seconds later. (looked it up possible common bad sensor?) fluids looked ok for trans, so checked all my others, honestly haven't been checking as much as I did with the C3500 figured it was newer better motor. so maybe once a month. While checking trans fluid I saw coolant was below min line almost empty. Totally disappointment in my recent purchase as I was hoping to pay off before having to do the engine tear down/build up for bullet proofing. I knew this motor could have inherit issues just had hope it was one of the lucky ones since oasis showed no major repairs With the one owner. Now onto next problem, no take off power turned into almost no turbo spool and high rpms while driving, causing hard shifts, plus being really really slow, until about 50mph it seems to correct itself. (bare with me I know but all this happened in a span of 2 weeks and it's been a busy month). side note I had filled coolant and haven't seen any real loss of coolant to date. Last problem which was the last straw before I took time off to look at it. I went to my brothers house, for about an 30-45 mins. Hopped in and just got constant crank no start. I tried for a while before I feared battery or stater damage. Only thing I noted was no oil pressure at all from dummy gauge (as many are calling it). Called insurance, for free tow, after finally getting a call back from the service they chose I figured hey try one more time (about 3 hrs later motor temp at lowest reading) Fired right up! Great cancelled tow, drove home just fine. Long story short after 2 more days of getting stuck I realized I have a no start when hot problem. order a Scan gauge II (which is going to be return in favor of Torque app and a older unused Samsung tablet) after watching dieseltechRons older vids, set it up, found ICP on hot start would not build past 388psi. I pulled diesel filter, not happy it had a little oil but not full solid wet or pouring like I've seen on you-tube. Ran no key in, starter cable to battery, test to verify base oil pressure fills within about 12 seconds. Looking for suggestion to verify if its a HPOP which would really really suck, on top of possible oil cooler issues arising. Sorry so long

Here is where I'm at
No start when hot,
poor performance off and on, mainly turbo,
flashing check gauge for trans temp peg back and forth,

Troubleshot so far, (from scan gauge II
failing to reaching 500psi on hot starts,
Ficm at 48v, good sync,
VGT seems to stay at 40%? very little difference if any at WOT or idle.
pulled filter lpop fills filter cup in 12seconds.
Ordering a fuel pressure adapter to rule out bad lift pump or garbage in tank.


I'm following the tech file as best I can but always up for suggestions and or just making a post to follow my own progress on repairs.

 

It could be as simple as a ICP sensor which I think is located on the front passenger valve cover also the turbo vanes and unison ring could be getting stuck mine did and I had to remove the turbo and clean and replace ring diesel tech Ron has a good video on that procedure try unplugging that ICP sensor and starting it if I remember correctly when you do that it gose into a default mode and if it starts normally I would replace that first after that it could be many other things

 

You need to determine if you have the early or late 04 engine. As posted above, it MAY be on the passenger valve cover. If so, it is a late 04 engine.

Late 04 engines have the dummy plugs that like to fail and a weak HPOP. The early engine HPOP's were weak also, but no dummy plugs.

During the hot no-start, collect and post your ICP pressure, ICP volts, and IPR% duty cycle:
KOEO
cranking

Do an air pressure test (more DTR videos).

Charge the batteries individually (just in case you have a bad connection at one battery), and then load test them individually.

Check your oil filter and oil filter cap to see if it is aftermarket. The aftermarket caps tend to be taller and can cause issues. Post a pic of it in the engine if you aren't sure.

 

Hey guy's appreciate the responses. I thought I mentioned it but I guess not. I unfortunately have one of the early model 04s. I get confused sometimes with all the info on leaks but mostly About the later model stand pipes dummy plugs and stc fittings. all which I believe I have none of. I just got done removing the ipc shield with hopes of seeing a nasty oil coated on outside of sensor but looks clean and it has been replaced with newer style three prong sensor. maybe it went bad? my main question at this point is do I disconnect it drive it around to get operating temps then try to hot restart? Or drive till operating temps park try not to burn myself on trans/motor/exhaust then try to restart? I know dtr said if it starts when unplugged its mkre then likely yourproblem but he just said starts not sure if it's safe to drive with icp disconnected.

balsmic ill post numbers shortly for both starts

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Ya unfortunately I don't know if it's safe to drive unplugged and with it not being on the valve cover makes it difficult to be unplugged when hot . You could always drive it around plugged in then get back to your house and try unplugging it and restarting to see what it dose .

 

You can drive with it unplugged.

Every 6.0L has standpipes. They aren't a real common failure point though.

Early 04's don't have dummy plugs

No 04 (or 03) have the troublesome STC HPOP discharge fitting (they do have some other connections that might leak in the HPO system).

 

I'll give it a shot thanks Bismic.
I'll post numbers and results after the warm up.

 

You definitely got to post numbers cold and hot. I think you have the infamous HPOP seal issue. I have the same motor in my Ex but my problem was the oil rail seals to the injectors. I think my HPOP was changed out before I got the truck. Your going to have to have a air test done to really find the leak. I used nitrogen cause I had it available. I still may need a pump down the road but it hasn't given me a problem since.

 

Ok started fine but right off the bat no acceleration, does cutting out the icp sensor disable turbo? Or is that due to a limp mode condition since it finally threw its first CEL light. Took my youngest son to get milk shakes at a drive through about 5 miles away and did a longer way home so about 15miles.
It was a horrible ride though, like minutes to reach 30mph, and had to make sure no traffic when pulling out. got back tried to start.

No go still no hot start.
330pm
(bare in mind the icp sensor is disconnected so IDK if these numbers are fake I'll make another post with everything hooked up after its cold.


ICPV-0.00
ICP 14.5
IPR
FICM 48.5
sync 1

530pm
after cool down I plug icp sensor back in.
cold start I have
KOEO
IPV .17
IPR 14.8
FICM 48
ICP 6

after starting first try temp about 100*
IPV 1.07
IPR 29.2
FICM 46.5
ICP 643

after warming up again 210? according to scan gauge

IPV .62
IPR 84.7 (uh oh)
FICM 48
ICP 388 never builds above this unless cooled back down to 100ish.

side question, after trying to start hot each time seconds after I let off the starter I hear a very noticeable Whoosh. again still earning the engine not sure if that's normal.

I know I know gotta do air test, so I guess I can't do much until I buy the adapter..

Also my filter is a Napa after market. not stock

appreciate any help or other test I can do before I can get adapter

 

Sounds like it's likely time for a HPOP. When it's hot those IPR readings are calling for full on oil, and not getting enough at only 388 to even light the fires.
You do need to get the correct OEM filter and cap.

Only an air test will confirm things.

One thing that has me curious though, you say it take 12 seconds to fill the oil filter bowl? That seems long to me.
You also stated no movement on the dash needle..........interesting.

Anyone else here want to chime in? Possible LPO problem starving things up top? That filter should be dripping when you pull it out the top.
LPOP check valve perhaps?

 

OP's mileage and symptoms are consistent with my experience when my HPOP needed replacing.

 

Get rid of the NAPA oil filter and make sure your oil filter cap is OEM!

 

So should I spend money on test tools or just order a pump? Sucks I hate being so close to the parts that really really need replacement to prevent future problems but I don't have the cash to dump what 3k to do a total budget bulletproof?
ugh.. good thing is this ford pump is way easier then the 6.5 Chevy diesel injector. no timing or crazy tight tolerance injector tubes to tighten.

Navistartnut:: Yeah I notice the IPR too and was just trying to hope it was something else. about the lpop I checked my time compared to DTRs vids and its pretty much the same if not a second or two off. I heard 5-7 seconds from few threads I read but all the vids I've seen ruling out the LPOP showed about same time 12-14 secs.

basmic:: And once ford opens tomorrow and I get time I'll get a ford filter and cap.

Any suggestions on a fair priced pump? before I bight the bullet for what $800 on refurbished.. man I know I compare it to my past chevy but a refurb one only cost 400 and it was full of optics, a new one was 1100. hate buying expensive refurbed parts with only 1 yr warranty if that.

 

Save some coin and get the filter at Wmart, they have the Ford OEM #FL 2016.....dealer prolly 5$ over that.
Cap part# 3C3Z-6766-CA

Suffice it to say, if you want a pump that will last on these early builds and will work the first time........Adrenaline HPOP is all you need to know.
Any one of us here with an early build would tell you the same thing. Countless threads here of unfortunate chaps that took up to THREE Ford remans to get one that worked, and this job, while not impossible for us DIYers is not as quick as swapping out an oil filter.

Yes they cost more........spend the extra scratch up front and be done with it. It's a shame a pump that pretty gets stuck under a cover

You still need to air test......don't spend money on a pump if you end up with nothing more than a much cheaper leak somewhere else.
It's a 6.0......silly to guess unless you want to throw cash at something hoping it sticks

 

Yeah like I said honestly I did research before posting my thread. I did see the multiple ford remans being pulled and taken back. I saw adrenaline before hand. I just get really down that I bought a truck for 6K and few months later have to put another 1K and if I want to solve its biggest problem 2-3K more.

When I say I changed out the Chevy pump I meant personally, and from the looks of it fords is way easier to replace (technical wise, but a lot more to remove in tight places though). For some reason ford really shoved the motor back there and turbo on top is just odd to me coming from older Chevy. Appreciate the help I'll still invest in some tools to do some thorough testing.