I have a feeling it is a mistake posting this in a Ford forum but here goes. Don't kill me! This is for the guys and gals that have been around the block and have some real life experience with diesel trucks.


I'm looking to buy a diesel 3/4 ton with 4x4. I'm interested in finding the best power, torque, mpg and reliability. Based solely on stock engine and transmission combos, which truck brand has the winning combination and why do you think so?


GM: Duramax/Allison
Ram: Cummins/68RFE (Aisin only sold on 3500s)
Ford: Powerstroke/Torqshift




Thanks!

 

I've personally never owned a diesel due to not needing one (family owns duramax), but this comes from growing up with a mechanics shop in the backyard and always helping fix the vehicles that came in. I've driven them all (except the newest version of gm)

To me the duramax and allison combo can't be beat if you are only looking at the engine/transmission combination. It's been a solid engine for years with very few issues and only minor adjustments with each version. If the rest of the truck was as solid as those two things it would be my first choice, but they aren't so it isn't.

Second place would be the new powerstroke/torqshift (first choice to buy due to rest of the truck being solid as well). The powerstroke has had some major issue years and has been rebuilt a lot. This new (2011 base) engine seems pretty solid though and has only had minor updates.

The cummins is last but also a great engine, just not like the other two in actual real world tests. It will do its thing and hasn't had a bunch of major issues. It's reliability is why Ram sells so many vehicles with that C on the side. It is just not the same power as the other two, you will know if you drive them.

On a side note, depending on what you are doing, why not get a 3500/350 SRW diesel for the minimum cost more. The diesel in a 250 basically makes your payloads the same as a 1/2 ton series ~2000lbs. The 1 ton series gets you that 3000lb+ payload in diesel. If I were to buy a diesel I wouldn't even think about a 250 due to the payload restrictions.

 

I have had them all. They all have there flaws. The mpg is very close on them all as is the hp and torque. They will all do what you need I'm sure.... For me it comes down to personal preference fit, finish etc....

 

When it comes down to torque and horsepower, the differences on paper are not statistically significant. A peak hp or torque number can't tell you how driveable a truck is, how much area is under the dyno curve, how the transmission is programmed to work in conjunction with the rest of the vehicle. You need to test drive each vehicle and determine which one 'feels' the best for yourself. MPG is often as much a factor of how you drive, the loads you haul, where you are hauling, etc., etc. Again, I don't think one truck is remarkably better than the other here. And by now, most of the diesels are pretty damned reliable and are backed up by decent warranties.

With as capable as all these trucks are the only way to differentiate between them is to find out which one is the truck you like. The numbers game is more of a marketing ploy than real world factors.

 

The Duramax/Alison combo has a proven record from the past, not much is known about the l5p but I'm sure it'll be great as well .. there was something I personally don't like about the truck such as ifs and some ceature comforts you can't get that ford offers

Cummins/68rfe would be the last on my list, I would definitely look into the 3500 truck to get the high output engine and stronger transmission .. like others have said the dodge feels down on power compared to the rest due to its torque management and how ram sets the computer up from the factory, it just feels anemic but it gets the job done .. I will say I don't believe the latest generations of Cummins are as reliable as the old 5.9's

The powerstroke engine for me was the biggest gamble about buying ford but after I researched and researched I couldn't really find any serious problems except for some valve issues and turbo problems in the early build 2011 trucks .. I love all the new technology ford offers in the new super duty it really changes the experience from feeling like a old truck to a new luxury truck .. The aluminum body in my opinion is a huge plus that many people look over but living in wv and our winters rusted vehicles get old quick.

I test drove all of the diesel trucks before making my purchase and I just felt better in the ford, the technology and fit an finish was ahead of the other two and this is a first year Model .. fuel mileage will be close between all three of them

 

For the life of me I never understood why Ford decided to stick with the Power Stroke name when they came out with their own power plant. Ford designed their transmission to be an improvement on the Allison as well, and it's proven pretty well thus far. Ford is also the only brand to make the engine/transmission and body, so in theory the engineers should have been able to work more openly together and not worry about trade secrets.

 

Hey, no worries at all. I'd be happy to discuss pros and cons with you all day. It is a Ford forum, so expect a little bias.

You are talking about new, current trucks. I can tell you, without any hesitation or deceit, the current Powertroke / TorqShift 6 is absolutely the best combination of power, economy, and reliability as an "overall."

First, power and torque of the 2017 models:

Ford: 440HP, 925lb-ft
GM: 445HP, 910lb-ft
RAM: 370HP, 800lb-ft (in 3/4 ton config) (385HP, 900lb-ft in 1-ton config)

So Ford and GM are very close, and historically the Duramax has always been strong. RAM is lagging. Yes, 370/800 is more than enough, but if you are paying the price, why not have the most? Even in peak output form, the RAM trucks are the slowest loaded or unloaded.

Next, economy:

Right now, Ford is on top of the fuel economy game. Motor Trend recently gave the 2017 Super Duty its Truck of the Year award. They tested fuel economy against the RAM. In their testing, the Ford was 3.2mpg better overall. Historically, RAM has always gotten the best economy. Personally, I'm a bit surprised. I have the same truck Motor Trend tested, and my results are not nearly as good. But most people here with a 2017 seem to agree the new trucks do slightly better than the previous generation. GM remains to be seen, but expect it to be competitive.

Finally, reliability:

Typically, the finishing order in the past for reliability is Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke. But we are talking about current trucks. The 6.0 and 6.4 Fords are a thing of the past. The 6.7L has a great track record. It has proven to be strong and is well designed. Ford seems to have learned from its past ventures with IH and designed things, particularly pollution controls, to be more robust. Up to 2016, Ford and GM fuel systems (pumps, injectors) were identical. Ford has continued for 2017 with the Bosch fuel system. GM has moved to a new Denso system which is unproven. I think at this point, Ford, GM, and RAM will all be reliable. Ford is no longer taking a backseat here.

Transmissions:

Here, GM has made a great reputation for itself using an outsourced transmission from a reputable company, Allison. Indeed, the Allison 1000 has been quite good. It has been used in the military. BUT, it is not perfect. It does not take well to tuning which drastically increases the engine's power or torque. Here we see failures, which indicates it is not overbuilt.

RAM in 3/4 ton application uses the RFE transmission (or G56 Mercedes manual). The RFE is a Chrysler-made product. Chrysler transmissions have a long history of failures. Nevertheless, I think the RFE is much improved or earlier versions and will survive just fine as long as the truck is kept stock. A friend just purchased a 2016 Crew Cab 4x4 Big Horn 2500 Cummins RFE truck. Very happy so far. I expect him to remain that way. Personally, I'd take the G56 just because I like to shift...but that neuters the Cummins even more.

Ford uses the TorqShift 6 from F-250 all the way to F750. To me, the use of the same transmission in a true medium-duty truck indicates it is very strong. Buying the "least" capable Super Duty, a 250, would make me think my transmission would be invincible. This transmission is known to be able to handle significant power upgrades to the engine. The design is much more leak-proof than the Allison.

So there you have it. That does not take into account the remainder of the truck itself, which you should consider. But I would take the Ford in a heartbeat, then RAM, then GM. Just my opinion.

 

This is my first diesel as well and for the most part all 3 companies use really solid drive trains, based on the reviews. I've previously owned a Silverado 1500 and an F-150.

So for me it came down to what wrapped those moving bits, and in my opinion the 2017 Ford is light years ahead of the other two in the areas of comfort, style and technology.

 

I've owned nothing but Fords, well technically not true. My wife had a '06 Ram 2500 and now she has a '11 Ram 2500.

I've owned a 6.4L, 7.3L, 6.0L, and now a 6.7L, in that order.

I love the Cummins engine. I love the sound and the low end power. The wife's '06 had the G56 manual trans, and you could bog the engine down low and it would just pull right out of it. The factory Jacobs exhaust brake was nice too. But the rest of the truck sucked! Look underneath a Ram and then look under a Ford. The Ram looks like it is made with car parts. The Ford is made with massive components compared to the Ram. Fit and finish is much better with Ford. I got fed up with fixing it constantly and made her trade it.

Yes, she got another Ram. I found a 2011 2500 with only 39k miles, 6" lift, deleted and tuned. Probably the cleanest used truck I've ever seen. Same tiny suspension and steering components but overall improved over the previous generation. It is really a very nice truck and I think they are the best looking trucks out there. It's got the bells and whistles, at least for that time period and is still running strong and problem free at 51k+ miles with an 80hp tune.

As far as GM, I don't have any experience. Don't know anyone that has a Duramax. Don't see a whole lot of them around either. I don't care for the soft, mushy suspension that I've noticed in the few GM gas trucks I've been in. Some might think that it makes it more comfortable, but I think it makes it less stable, less capable. The used truck dealer we purchased both my wife's trucks from told me the Duramax customers rarely come back with issues, complaints, warranty claims.

On to the Fords. The 6.4L being my first diesel, I loved it. It was an F250 short bed. I had a few F150's before but I had definitely caught the diesel bug. Great power, good fuel mileage. I had nothing to tow, nothing to haul though. At that time fuel prices became outrageous, almost $5 a gallon, and then I got deployed so the truck had to go.

Back from deployment, got the 2001 F350 7.3L. Did some work to it, turbo, exhaust, intake, tuner, etc. Not a lot of power but a decent truck. Hauled firewood and misc. stuff. Still hooked on the diesel drug but for financial reasons had to get rid of it.

On to the 2006 F350 DRW 6.0L! Loved the 6.0. Yes it can have it's issues but it really is an amazing engine. Decent power stock, a bit long in the tooth as far as technology and interior design/features, pretty much like the 7.3. Put a ton of money and time into it, and the truck was just amazing. Awesome power! Actually had things to tow and haul with it too, to include four wheelers, 16' tandem axle trailer, and 36' fifth wheel toy hauler. Reliability and maintenance were always a thought though, always worried about it. Opted to order the '17. Manly tears were shed when I sold it to the dealership.

The '17 F350 DRW is awesome. The 6.7L seems to be very good. It seems to pull better down low than the 6.0, at least it doesn't seem to downshift as soon but still pulls well, more like the Cummins. I'm sure the 6 sped trans helps. I have less than 1800 miles on it, haven't towed anything, and probably haven't been over 50% throttle with it. I can tell you, I was going up a hill and it downshifted and put me back in my seat. Actually surprised me, like, what just happened? Love all the tech, comfort, features, etc.

I would definitely go with a 350/3500 long bed regardless.

Sorry, probably too much information!

 

Felix4, you must have a "cool" wife if she wants to drive a stick-shift diesel pickup! That's awesome.

 

A friend of mine is a 28 year Ram/Cummins tech at the local Ram dealership. He tells me that the 68 series transmissions on the Ram is 1960's technology with an electronic overdrive on the back and is the reason the Cummins is so detuned as it has the potential to literally gut it.
This guy is a very respected "no nonsense" tech who calls it as he sees it. He has unapologetically drove his F250 to work at the Ram dealership for 10 years now. When I asked why he drives a Ford he said, "I work on trucks all day long, I don't want to work on my own when I get home, it's reliable".

 

Yeah, she's not thrilled that the 2011 is automatic, she would prefer a manual. The '06 had a South Bend clutch. Funny when guys talk about wearing their leg out with those clutches. Then I tell them my 5'3" wife can drive it just fine in a skirt and heels.

Once she drove my 6.0 she knew she wanted a diesel. No need to have two, but it's what she wants so... I think it is pretty awesome too.

 

The 7.3 listed below is mine. The 2017 F350 is actually my wife's. What's going on here?

 

You guys are awesome. Thanks for your feedback. I've driven all 4 brands. I agree the GM suspension is spongy and the Ram feels underpowered. The Ford handled like a truck and accelerated like a sports car. I really liked it. I like the styling of the Chevy but I can't make a decision based on looks. Thanks again fellas.

 

The Ram is neutered, my brothers 2015 was so gutless I vowed never to buy a diesel. His turned out to be a lemon and they bought it back. I test drove a 2017 Ford PSD for him just for something to do one weekend and wow HUGE difference in power and acceleration vs the Ram. I ended up buying an F350 myself, he purchased a F250. We are both happy.


By the way after the Ram was bought back he purchased one of those Nissan HD's with the smaller Cummins engines, total lemon they bought that back as well. That's when he went Ford.