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1986 F350 XL 4x4, NA 6.9, T19, 4.10's, GearVendor overdrive
My Truck:
This is a build thread for my Crew Cab IDI. It has been a great truck, but if you have ever owned one, you know that the turning radius on these older CCLB's is insane. After living with a 168" wheelbase for ten years I knew I wanted a shorter truck. Cab space is more important to me than bed size, and the '80-'86 body style is one of my all time favorites. So my solution was to frame chop my existing truck and put a short bed on it. The new wheelbase is 152" which should give it somewhat better manners. The drive train is being updated to a turbo'd 7.3 and ZF-5 speed with improvements from R&D IDI Performance
My build plan:
- 1994 7.3 naturally aspirated (NA) diesel (VIN code M)
- R&D main bearing girdle and stud kit
- ARP 8740 chromoly head studs
- Romel77's prototype 18:1 (.110") decompression performance head gaskets
- Ceramic piston coating
- Total Seal gapless 2nd rings
- R&D Stage 1 cam grind
- Comp Cams 910 valve springs shimmed to 1.800"
- R&D150cc DB4 injection pump (enough fuel for 400hp/800+tq at the wheels)
- R&D Stage 1 injectors
- R&D intake + hot side turbo kit
- R&D Stage 2 turbocharger BW sx-e (64.5/88--80/73) T4 flange .91AR
- Powerstroke Superduty 7.3 aluminum intercooler
- Wide ratio 460 ZF-5 re-drilled to fit the IDI (typ4 mod)
- 6.9 T-19 flywheel re-drilled for 13" Southbend clutch
- Borg Warner 1345 T-case and GearVendor overdrive
- 2nd generation (long yolk) Sterling 10.25 LS axle swap (4.10's)
- F450 hydroboost brake assist conversion (How-to thread)
- Bronco 32 gallon fuel tank and F-Superduty electric fuel pump
Parts Collecting:
The cab, frame, front axle, and transfer case/overdrive is about all that will remain of my original truck... even the interior is being completely replaced. Finding a deal on an "old man truck" would have been a far better way to go, but I am tolerating this one because of how scarce 4x4 diesel crew cabs are in this body style (and I don't feel guilty for heavily modifying it). I still have quite a few parts on my shopping list, but here are some of the junkyard finds and performance parts I have collected so far:
1994 7.3 NA
Wide ratio 460 ZF-5
6.9 solid flywheel drilled for 13" Southbend clutch
GearVendor's .78 overdrive gear box
Limited slip 2nd generation Sterling 10.25" axle from a 1996 F250
R&D Stage 1 cam grind and Comp 910 valve springs
R&D main girdle and ARP main bearing stud kit
Total seal gapless 2nd rings (to be ordered once bore is confirmed)
RD4-150cc injection pump
R&D Stage 1 hot side turbo kit and intake manifold
7.3 PSD aluminum intercooler
Borg Warner S364 sx-e R&D "Stage 2" turbo (64.5/88-80/73) .91AR T4
The 6.9 that came in my truck ran well when parked, but had a thirst for oil and coolant. It was a Ford crate engine with an infamous 1983 "A" block s/n. Good for parts, but 6.9's in general have inadequate head fasteners for any kind of serious performance building. Strike one...
I bought another IDI from a co-worker out of a 1992 F250. It turned out to be a transplanted 6.9, also with an early block. Not a 1983 "A" block, but still a pre-bolt in oiler type. Strike two...
I bought a 1994 VIN code K factory turbo 7.3 engine on Craigslst but the block turned out to be shot. Five of the bores were tapered so badly that it could not be repaired even with sleeves. Strike three...
Then I bought a 1994 VIN code M engine (NA) for a replacement block, but the main bearings turned out to be spun in the webs. No good. Strike four...
Fifth try was another 1994 VIN code M 7.3 that had been transplanted into a 1990 F250. Some rain water got in through the intake and injector ports while sitting in the junkyard, but I think I dried it out before it did any serious damage. Originally I was only after the block, but what I found inside changed my mind. Minus a little surface rust everything looks perfect with almost no visible wear. The pre-combustion chambers have no cracks and valve stems are not hammered like every other IDI I've opened. It seems crazy not to freshen it up and run it. I talked to Justin at R&D Performance about it and he said I could forego using my turbo rods as long as I stay away from water methanol injection. The 18:1 decompression should be enough at my fuel/power level. I actually prefer this since the factory turbo pistons are going obsolete and are already hard to find. When it comes to wear items, future availability is important. Aftermarket options may become available but currently Mahale is the only manufacturer and they don't plan to continue them.
The block is ready to go to the machinist, mostly for the purpose of confirming that it is buildable (which it should be). There is no huge rush to get it running since the truck is in pieces. I do not have a garage, so I need to at least finish the firewall and engine bay area so I have a safe, dry place for the engine to go once it's together.
I will add pictures and details of the frame splice and tear down soon. This seems like enough information for the first post and project introduction. Thanks for reading!
Very nicely done, Jonathan! I look forward to seeing your progress. What are your plans for the interior?
Thank you David. My progress is slow but the results should be worth the wait. As for the interior... *someone on this forum went way above and beyond to help me obtain what are probably the rarest bullnose trim pieces in existence... and in NOS condition no less... I am talking about a XLS brushed aluminum instrument bezel with factory fog lamp option and a XLS radio bezel name plate. Thank-you David! I am still looking for a brushed aluminum XLS radio bezel... in case someone has one laying around... (I'm such a comedian). Otherwise I will clone one to the best of my ability. I may also want to clone a pair of brushed aluminum door trims, so if anyone has a pair of ugly (but paintable) rosewood woodgrain crank window style door trims that they would be willing to part with please PM me. Such trim panels did actually exist for the high optioned medium duty trucks of the 80's. If you look closely you can see it in a brochure photo sent to me by 85MOTORSPORTXLT.
NOS brushed aluminum XLS instrument bezel
NOS radio bezel XLS nameplate
Medium duty truck brochure showing the brushed aluminum door trim
With the help of 1986F150six, Gary Lewis and NumberDummy I was also able to locate and purchase NOS gloss black option XLS headlight doors...
That should provide at least a few hints toward how the truck will be styled. As for the rest of the inside, I bought a mostly complete Canyon Red crew cab interior from another member here. It came from a fire department truck, and it is in far better condition than most. It will refurbish nicely. I also found a pair of near-perfect captain chair seats from a 1985 Bronco. It had been a company snow plow truck (in Arizona) so it saw very little use. They just need to be re-covered to match the red interior. I found a red center console, some 87-91 Supercab seat tracks (vs. the catapult) and David donated some very nice seat belt receivers to the cause.
Pics of the red interior prior to being removed and shipped to me
But WHY are you going with an IDI when you know how many problems these engines have?
Brad, I know the 6.9s/7.3's have their issues but I wouldn't say they are lemons. It seems to me that most of the problems they have stem from lack of maintenance and being run into the ground because they are "cheap" diesels. Your question is a fair one though, and I am happy to explain the reasons why I love my IDI and decided to invest in it:
I do a lot of back country traveling. Not rock crawling or mudding or anything crazy... I just like to be able to handle bad roads that lead to interesting places. Dirt and vibration are tough on sensors and electronics, so the all mechanical IDI is a great choice. If something does go wrong in the middle of nowhere, it is much more likely that you will be able to do something about it if you bring tools and critical spare parts. These are not the only good engines out there, but they are tough and very dependable when cared for.
In my experience nothing runs as good as IDI mechanical injection. The atomization of fuel hitting the hot pre-cup neutralizes problems with injection timing and spray pattern. It is very forgiving and tolerant of inferior fuel, worn injectors etc., usually IDI designs (indirect-injection for those who don't know) have an intrinsic loss/inefficiency compared to direct injection, but for whatever reason, (heads that flow really well is one theory), the 6.9/7.3 is on par efficiency wise with many DI designs.
These engines produce a very high torque to horsepower ratio. They have a nice broad power band, especially when turbocharged. They might not make the highest peak numbers, but the overall power curve is a really good one.
It's what belongs in the truck. This is legal silliness, but a consideration never the less. I plan to keep this truck forever, and if I ever move to an area that requires inspections and/or emissions testing I don't want to get in a bind with registration. In a real pinch I could even revert the engine back to stock NA form (at least for inspections ).
Truck parked in front of my dad's shop ready to go under the knife
Many thanks to my dad for his support on this project.... we have been working on trucks together for a long time!
The first things to go were the hideous running boards and the junk bed
Next went the rear fuel tank, skid plate, and the damaged rear bumper
Next I swapped in a 2nd generation long-yoke Sterling 10.25" rear axle from a 1996 F250
I am sure glad to be rid of the 1st generation Sterling 10.25". This is the carnage I found inside where the off-axis pinion gear had been chewing into the carrier. The carnage was not fresh, so my leaky seal and yoke wobble problem had obviously been addressed before.
For comparison, here is what the internals of my new Sterling looked like.
And here is the housing and cover cleaned up a bit.
I found a pretty nice short bed at the junkyard. It has typical handling damage from the forklifts but otherwise clean, straight, and it has a rear fuel door.
Next I had to remove the mid-ship tank and skid plate, fuel lines, brake lines, wiring harness, drive shafts and exhaust... basically everything that passes through the section of frame behind the cab where the splice would take place.
Since the truck is needing to be torn down anyway, I decided to get as much weight off the frame as practical before splicing it. I removed the front clip, engine, transmission, transfer case and overdrive. I decided to leave the cab on the frame.
Before I discuss the splice, I want to say that this part of the build was done by a very accomplished car builder and metal fabricator. I extend my sincere thanks to my co-worker Steve who made this possible. His technique worked so well (in spite of the lousy driveway working conditions) that I want to explain it here for anyone else thinking of doing a frame chop.
Because of the way the frame channel is contoured, the best way to splice it was a straight vertical cut about 3/4" aft of the forward bed mounting hole. According to the wheelbase figures from Ford, the reduction should be 16.2" to accomodate the stock short bed. I went with 16.0" exactly, not wanting to crowd the gap between the cab and the bed. When the splice was done, all 8 bed bolts dropped right into place in the original holes for the 8' bed, with the 0.2" absorbed by the ample hole size in the frame. The first step was to make three angle grinder cuts on the rear splice mark, top bottom and a slit in the center of the "C" channel.
Then some temporary tabs were welded to the rear half of the frame, bridging each of the three cuts made above. The tabs were for aiding alignment of the two frame halves when united.
Then the frame was supported with jacks and jack stands and the rest of the splice section was cut out with the angle grinder.
The rear axle section was then rolled forward. The tabs did a great job of aligning the splice. Everything was clamped into place, re-measured, and then welded from the inside between the tabs. The tabs were then removed and the splice was fully welded.
At this point the welds were ground down and primered. We checked some reference measurements between frame features and our segment delete was dead on. The biggest discrepancy we could find was about .030" off. Fish plating the welds was going to have to wait for another session.
I fitted the bed on the frame and all 8 bed bolts dropped into the original holes. I was anticipating having to fudge the front two, but the fitment was perfect. The truck still needs new body mounts and rear quarter panel work for the body lines to look right, but the short bed surgery couldn't have gone better.
Looking good. Before everyone jumps on you for the butt weld, my wheeling rig is done exactly the same under the cab(shortened an ex. cab to a reg) and was done in 02. It served many years as DD/tow rig before it became a wheeling rig. It has been on 44's and has done it's time as a recovery rig since 09. I planned on fishplating it, but that never did happen. It has never been an issue. These frames are 1/4" mild steel. Welded properly a modification or repair is not a big deal.
Thanks. That is good to know. I did quite a bit of research on frame splicing and arrived at the same answer. It does not matter that much how you cut it as long as it is welded right and reinforced. The guy who helped me with it had done many, many frame splices on custom cars and said the simpler cuts usually worked out better for fitment and alignment. Guys who tried fancy zig zags, interlocking dog leg patterns etc., were the ones who ended up with crooked frames and problems filling in gaps where the halves did not match exactly.
We took a look at my frame and saw that the C channel narrows ever so slightly right behind the forward bed mounting hole and widens again just ahead of the front edge of the bed. Vertical cuts were needed so that both halves of the C channel would be the same height and mate completely when united. Any other type of cut would have resulted in unequal C channel heights. The butt splice worked perfect. I am going to fish plate mine, mostly as insurance in case of a violent collision. Here is my attempt to illustrate the subtle contour on the lower edge of the C channel where we made the splice:
Attention Rust Belt members: Need cancer prevention advice!
In Arizona we typically don't get rust, we get 'patina'. However this is changing. In recent years the highway departments have switched from cinders to salt on the roads in our high elevation towns. I try to leave my truck at home when ADOT is out sprinkling cancer everywhere, but life is not perfect so I want to do some rust prevention as well.
Since the front end/engine bay area is my next step, I want your advice about rust neutralizers, undercarriage painting, and body undercoating. This is a sensibly budgeted DIY build, not a show truck. As nice as it would be, I am not going to sand blast the frame and powder coat it or go all out with galvanizing and super expensive coatings.
The frame still has a lot of the original paint, and in a few spots I have begun to freshen it up with plain old satin black Rustolium. I've heard that POR15 is the thing to do, but it's messy and expensive. Do I need prep it down to bare metal for it to be effective? How well do the rust neutralizers work? Is it worth the cost and the hassle? If I apply POR15 with disposable brushes how many gallons would it take to treat the frame?
I was once told that the best undercoating was paintable roofing tar. I used this on a 1966 pickup I had. It seemed reasonable, it was relatively cheap, covered well, and left a pliable sound-deadening crust. I was thinking about using it again, but another member here mentioned that it might be porous enough to absorb salt water over time and hold it next to the metal. I figure someone here must know if this is an issue or not. I have heard very poor reviews of aerosol undercoatings, bed liners and similar spray-on goop. So if tar is not a solution what else is good to use? More POR15?
Is there anything I can do to help out problem areas like the rear fender arches and cab corners? Anything I can do to help preserve fasteners like bed bolts and transmission cross-member bolts that may have to come out during future service work? Anti-seize? Grease?
I got some nice information from Leroy Unlisted on the diesel board... re-posted here for safe keeping and for others to see:
Originally Posted by Leroy Unlisted
// when i did my frame i used rust-mort .. aka muretic acid .. sold as driveway cleaner in bigger bottles .. but phosphoric acid is even better .. i used stiff wire brushes with glasses gloves tyvec suit ect ..ect .. and just scrubbed all the surfaces with acid ..
it's important that you wash this well with water afterward to neuterize the acids or they will stay under paint and continue 'cleaning' way too deep and actually cause deep rust ..
the acids convert the rust to black chippy crud and it etches the surface for paint to adhere properly ..
here's a blurb i found about phopsoric acid that pretty much sums it up
Phosphoric acid may be used by direct application to rusted iron or steel tools or surfaces to convert iron oxide (rust) to a water soluble phosphate compound. As a liquid form it is a greenish liquid, suitable for dipping (acid bath), but is more generally used as a component in a gell, commonly called Naval jelly, as when in this form it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces. Care must be taken to avoid acid burns of the skin and especially the eyes, but the residue is easily diluted with water and when sufficiently diluted can even be nutritious to plant life, containing the essential nutrients phosphorus and iron. It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer".
1 gallon of POR15 will do the whole thing with chip brushes .. i used some black paint .. some undercoating .. some bedliner coating .. just what i had laying around .. as long as it seals the surface from water it'll work .. no 'spray paint' tho ..
as far as rust goes .. there's only one way to do that .. cut it out until all you see is bright clean steel .. then tack sheet metal behind that .. or fiberglass matt .. just something solid and impermiable ..
then rough the surrounding metal with 80 grit .. and then apply body filler ..
my favorite filler is evercoat Z-grip .. i just gave you the KEY .. don't use junk bondo .. Z-grip is the 'bomb' my favorite trust me ..
also remember to degrease between every step ..
and remember although it's 'plastic' .. filler contains talc .. and is hydroscopic .. meaning it soaks up water ..
so never never leave bondo unworked on a vehicle .. 2k primer it if it's gonna be outside .. because the water soaks and wicks down to all that fresh cut metal underneath .. if u ever see a car with a big bondo patch puckering up from rusty metal underneath .. that 's probably why ..
just back it .. abrade it .. fill it .. and then shape it .. start in 80 grit .. and use advantage 325 2k urethane primer .. then feather edge it all in nice and paint
I sandblast, Master Series(Or enter you choice of "rust" paint), then topcoat with Valspar low glare black.
I drive my truck all winter and plow with them. I think the results speak for themselves.
Is it "expensive"? if you call spending $4oo to have a truck preserved for the next 20+/- yes then yes I guess it is
Before
<a href="http://s108.photobucket.com/user/diesel_brad/media/99%20F550/DSC01149.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/diesel_brad/99%20F550/DSC01149.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC01149.jpg"/></a>
After
<a href="http://s108.photobucket.com/user/diesel_brad/media/99%20F550/DSC01618.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/diesel_brad/99%20F550/DSC01618.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC01618.jpg"/></a>
Brad, $400 is very reasonable. This is the kind of tip I need. I checked into professional powder coating and could not justify it. Is this what you did for the undercoating as well or did you do something else with the body sheet metal?
Brad, $400 is very reasonable. This is the kind of tip I need. I checked into professional powder coating and could not justify it. Is this what you did for the undercoating as well or did you do something else with the body sheet metal?
Undercoating is VERY BAD. Moisture gets behind it and it stays. Rotting the sheetmetal away and you cant even tell. At least with paint, if moisture gets behind it, it will flake off. The you will see the missing paint AND the moisture is released
Undercoating is VERY BAD. Moisture gets behind it and it stays. Rotting the sheetmetal away and you cant even tell. At least with paint, if moisture gets behind it, it will flake off. The you will see the missing paint AND the moisture is released
Thanks for the warning. I will just give it the same paint treatment as the frame...
09-02-2016, 01:55 AM
I am still looking for a brushed aluminum XLS radio bezel... in case someone has one laying around... (I'm such a comedian). Otherwise I will clone one to the best of my ability. I may also want to clone a pair of brushed aluminum door trims, so if anyone has a pair of ugly (but paintable) rosewood woodgrain crank window style door trims that they would be willing to part with please PM me. Such trim panels did actually exist for the high optioned medium duty trucks of the 80's. If you look closely you can see it in a brochure photo sent to me by 85MOTORSPORTXLT.
).
Attention Rust Belt members: Need cancer prevention advice!
