My experience with GM has been nothing but negative, also. And my few experiences with Dodge has been awful, too. Mainly from the 80's until now.
BTW, Conanski, I must have dreamed that I looked for my PCV valve 2 separate occasions.
I went out there and looked, and bam, there it was. Maybe I'm losing it. But, it does have he PCV where I have read it should be. Sorry for that wrong information when I said I didn't have one there. I swear, I must have dreamed that I was looking for it two different times.
__________________ 1986 F-150 5.0 EFI XLT Lariat 4x4 NP435/NP208/9" 3.50
"Custom Exhaust" and leaf spring overloads
31x10.50 15" Nothing special, but it's a damn good truck.
so why did Ford drop the pushrod motor and develop a complicated OHC monstrosity when all they really had to do was offer some updated cylinder heads and induction for the existing platform. Bolt some AFR heads on a stock 5.0HO shortblock and you got 400hp, but it takes a blower to get that kind of output from the 4.6, and it won't fit in every engine bay. It's too bad, probably would have put the company even further ahead right now if they'd gone that route.
How are those AFR heads going to hold up to day to day abuse and what are the warranty claims going to be like? The 302 was at the end of its life. The GM LSx motors are a complete redesign from the older motors so saying that simply putting on a set of aluminum heads on a 302 is like comparing apples to oranges. Ford chose to go the OHC route since they were redesigning an engine anyway. GM chose to go with the OHV route.
Well, I think the 302 could match the 281's performance and still have excellent reliability. I will give the 4.6 props for being a reliable engine, a very long lasting engine. But so was the old 302.
I'm not going to argue why Ford went smaller and different while GM stayed bigger and the same. But, I think the 302 could make the 260 horsepower (like 99-04) easily and reliable, or the 300 or 305 (whichever) horsepower 05-present version in the Mustang GT's just as easily. But, it would probably get 2-3 mpg less, which is probably the main reason Ford changed things up.
I just think an NA 4.6 SOHC 2v is not a great choice of engine to build, whereas the same mods in an NA 302 would make a larger difference. I love Ford, but jesus, it's 2009 and STILL the V8 sports car is just putting out 300 horsepower? GM was doing that in the 90's. And if this new Camaro ever makes it to the streets, the V6 version is already making 300 horsepower...
__________________ 1986 F-150 5.0 EFI XLT Lariat 4x4 NP435/NP208/9" 3.50
"Custom Exhaust" and leaf spring overloads
31x10.50 15" Nothing special, but it's a damn good truck.
I'm seeing a ton of the new Camaro's on the streets already, Freakshow.
__________________ GodBlessAmerica!! GodBlessFTEUsers! '94 F-150 FlareSide 4.9L 4.11 w/ Locker 3'' lift and custom exhaust. 217,000 miles and counting! "She might be slow but she gets the job done.."
Dang, I saw one at a dealership, but haven't seen any on the streets. Now what's Ford going to do? They going to use the new 5.0 engine or was that rumors?
__________________ 1986 F-150 5.0 EFI XLT Lariat 4x4 NP435/NP208/9" 3.50
"Custom Exhaust" and leaf spring overloads
31x10.50 15" Nothing special, but it's a damn good truck.
How are those AFR heads going to hold up to day to day abuse and what are the warranty claims going to be like? The 302 was at the end of its life. The GM LSx motors are a complete redesign from the older motors so saying that simply putting on a set of aluminum heads on a 302 is like comparing apples to oranges. Ford chose to go the OHC route since they were redesigning an engine anyway. GM chose to go with the OHV route.
Well AFR are probably at the top of the heap in aftermarket heads now, both in terms of performance and product quality, I have never heard of anybody with a failed AFR head. And yes I realize GM completely redesigned their V8's as well they just elected to maintain the pushrod valvetrain design. The relatevely low output from the Ford mod motors is likely just the same old Ford standards at work... reliability at the expense of all other factors including performance, GM and Dodge produce more HP but they simply don't have Ford like reliability, I have had enough first hand exposure of my own to know that. The Mod motors can be built to perform like the other guys but why bother when you can get the same results from a Windsor for less $$ and in a smaller package. I won't hesitate to buy a 4.6 or 5.4 powered truck for day to day use but when it comes to building something for performance I'd rather use the old pushrod motors.
__________________
Paul O
1990 F150 4x4 XLT X-Cab 5.0, 3.55LS, Comp XE264HR-14, Flowtech LT's to 3" single, FRPP Mass Air Conversion, TweecerRT with BE, Innovate LC-1 wideband O2
Well, I think the 302 could match the 281's performance and still have excellent reliability. But, I think the 302 could make the 260 horsepower (like 99-04) easily and reliable, or the 300 or 305 (whichever) horsepower 05-present version in the Mustang GT's just as easily.
If you see any 5.0 stangs runnin around where you are chances are they're nowhere close to stock and all you got to do to get close to 300hp from one is let it breath. At this level there is no impact on reliability at all these are exceptionally well built motors, even at the 400hp level you're not really taxing the motor unless it's under boost or on gas.
__________________
Paul O
1990 F150 4x4 XLT X-Cab 5.0, 3.55LS, Comp XE264HR-14, Flowtech LT's to 3" single, FRPP Mass Air Conversion, TweecerRT with BE, Innovate LC-1 wideband O2
Did I really see someone on here comparing fox body mustangs to corvettes and braggin that the corvettes were faster? C'mon, they should have been for close to twice the price. Thats apples and oranges. Funny I didnt hear any comparison for fox body's vs camaros or firebirds. Thats apples to apples and fox bodys were still less money, less to insure and smoked the camaro and firebirds. Although a Ford guy through and through I have always liked vettes but lets dont compare them with mustangs, at least for most year models. Sorry for continuing the hijacking of this thread but couldnt let that comparison go unchallenged.
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Craig
2008 F150 Lariat
1994 F150 Short Bed (building 5.0 for it now, kid drives it)
1968 Mustang Convertible 289 (wifes toy!)
All I said was that everyone compares Vettes with Mustangs (like in car reviews) because that's all there was until now with the Camaro back out. And yes, I'm a Ford man through and through, but I'm tired of making excuses for Ford's underpowered sports cars. It didn't bother me much in the trucks, because trucks aren't for racing, but for ****'s sake, Ford, put the 5.4 in the Mustang with an NA 350 horsepower at least! Back in the day, Ford and GM were close in numbers, but since 1993, the Fbody has had a whopping advantage in power.
And I agree about pushrod engines. Cam a 302, $100. Cam a 4.6 SOHC, it'll cost you a minimum of $400, and the rest usually go for $600+. I don't even want to know how much it'd cost to put cams in a 4.6 DOHC...
__________________ 1986 F-150 5.0 EFI XLT Lariat 4x4 NP435/NP208/9" 3.50
"Custom Exhaust" and leaf spring overloads
31x10.50 15" Nothing special, but it's a damn good truck.
Ive noticed, at the drag strip, there are more 5.0L mustangs than anything..
Now, thats part of the reason i wont buy one, just because everyone has one kind of kills it for me, but the fact of the matter is, getting one to perform is so easy and cheap. Last time i was at the strip, we brought my friend's 04 mustang with the 4.6 and our first run was against a 5.0L mustang with a cam, headers, exhaust, gears and some ported stock heads, and um..the 5.0L walked away from him like he was standing still. Nevermind the fact that my friend is always complaining about how expensive 4.6L parts are.
And btw freakshow, cams for a 4.6 DOHC will run you anywhere from $500-1000$, for a 4.6 SOHC they would be about 5-$600.
If were going to compare mustangs to corvettes why dont we throw the dodge viper in there? i mean come on, the viper is similar in price to the corvette nowadays. The thing i really like about the viper v10 motor....IT HAS PUSHRODS!!!!!!!
I don't think you can compare a mustang to a corvette or viper , thats a whole different catagory . The 5.0 mustang is like the 60s - 70s muscle cars , it will run with the big & small blocks of chey , dodge , pontiac , ect.... Lew
Ditto on the 5.0, thats why I have one built for my 94 F150 to replace the 300 6 cylinder. Hope to start the swap next month. I did use Hypereutectic pistons, so now we are back on subject! By the way, there were plenty of years (80's and early 90's) that the Camaro/Firebird were being made and the 5.0 Mustang smoked them. I've never seen car reviews that compared vettes with mustangs (doesnt mean it didnt happen though), simply not a fair comparison in any way, especially price. Vette compared with a Viper, thats a fair comparison. I do agree that Ford should put the 5.4 in the GT Mustang though and as standard equipment.
__________________
Craig
2008 F150 Lariat
1994 F150 Short Bed (building 5.0 for it now, kid drives it)
1968 Mustang Convertible 289 (wifes toy!)
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