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Old 09-01-2006, 06:51 AM
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frederic
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Originally Posted by derherr65
The junkyard route sounds interesting. Very time consuming, and you'll have to really screen the parts carefully, but DIY engines have a certain appeal over bought engines. Will the stock parts handle that power though? I suspect the block will, but I'm a little concerned about the rotating assembly.
The first solution has a higher "wallet cost" and the second solution has a higher "manpower cost". If you were to pay yourself (virtually) an hourly wage of say, $50 an hour, both solutions would cost about the same, more or less.

So if you have $10K to put into this, crates of stuff might be a good solution for you - certainly it would be a faster solution in the sense that boxes of preassembled stuff shows up, and your "work" is simply making one assembly out of the stuff, and installing it into your truck.

My "cheap monkey" solution definately takes more work. Based on my available time, which is almost nil, my 500cid stroker is still unfinished. It's a tradeoff, a choice.

And not everyone has the interest (or aptitude) to put something as homemade as this together on their own, and that's fine, certainly no judgement passed. I have more aptitude than cash, so for me the "cheap monkey" solution is generally my first choice. I also enjoy doing this. I could have bought wiseco pistons for my 500cid stroker, but instead I got a set of free pistons in a trade with a friend for junk I didn't want, and I had to "skim" them a hair in the lathe so they have proper clearance. Free pistons with a nice dished top perfect for forced induction - zero cost - and I got rid of crap that my friend highly valued, that to me belonged at the curb on trash day. So everyone's happy. The rods I'm using are big block buick. Why? They're about the right length for this and are stout pieces. Also nearly free, again, trading stuff I don't want for stuff I do want. The only thing I am missing actually are the aluminum, EFI 460 bracketry. I unfortunately lost, or accidentally tossed that box so I have to recapture those parts. When the time comes to put on the accessories, if I don't have them, I'll simply take round stock and bore holes for the mounting bolts (making posts) and flat plate, weld it together, slot and drill for the accessories, and make the bracketry myself out of stuff sitting in my huge scrap bin. Again, zero wallet cost, but a huge investment in time to make sure everything is perfectly aligned so the serpentine belt doesn't rub incorrect and have a short lifespan.

As far as power goes, remember that the forces on the crank, rods, and wrist pins are squared for every 1000 RPM. So the higher the RPMs, the stronger the parts must be.

If you keep the rpms down, and make up the difference with boost, you can achieve the same power using ordinary, unloved, junkyard parts. My twin-turbo 500cid stroker I'm building, will never see 4500 RPM. But, based on the c/r and the turbo sizing, I'll have boost "just off" idle, and at 4250 RPM I should see about 30-35psi. And I'm buliding the engine specifically for this. Most machine shops hear that you want a 7:1 c/r and give you a really funny look .

But the end result should be around a grand in HP and torque, at a lower RPM than any racing engine. But also keep in mind what i'm building this for - a 7,000lb crewcab that essentially is a highway hauler. I do not race the truck. No quarter miles. No hill climbing. No offroading. "Off roading" for my 2wd crewcab is driving in the rain, snow and salt.

This is my second twin-turbo "cheap monkey" truck. The first one was a 1975 Dodge extended cab which I stroked a 400"B" block to 451 cid, and grafted GM EFI and a pair of turbos. If I popped the clutch, either the front tires would lift off the ground a little (more on one side than the other), or I'd litter the ground with metal scrap that flew out/off the transmission, driveshaft, differential, or real axle depending whether I had E rated tires or wider slicks.



The key to using stock parts is to keep the RPMs down. One of the reasons why diesels last so many miles... they redline at what... 3000 RPM? There are other factors of course but where redline is makes a huge difference.

While RPM, C/R, gearing, and 200 other things all impact power levels and useful torque you can apply to the road surface, the bigger picture is how much air and fuel you can put into the engine over a period of time.

    If you race top fuel funny cars (or rails), you do all three. 500cid, 8000rpm redline, with wild amounts of boost from the blowers.

    For street, you adjust all three to something more reasonable, therefore more reliable. I chose to go with bigger engine, lower RPMs down from stock, and go with more boost. Advantages and disadvantages of course but it's a set of tradeoffs, having done this once before, I'm perfectly okay with. The tradeoff being I'll need boost right off idle to have that big block feel, because the compression is deliberately lower than most would think is reasonable.

    Right off idle (about 1200ish) I'll have boost so at that point, the 500cid will feel 500cid-ish. From 1500-4500, well, lets just say it will be more than a lot of fun to drive

    Anyway, build or buy as you see fit, I've enjoyed this exchange and hope you have also. Like everything else, any particular approach or method has tradeoffs. Some you can live with, some you can't.