Regen on 2011 6.7
 

Does Ford dump fuel in the exhaust stroke as the 6.4 for the regen on the 6.7? Or do they use an external process similar to the Duramax so that fuel does not mix into the oil?

Thanks!

regen still exists on the 6.7, and they use DEF as well

sam

Yes, the 6.7L engine uses the same process to regenerate the DPF as the 6.4L trucks do. The only difference that I'm aware of is that the left side cylinders are the only ones that do it, as the right side is what feeds the EGR system.

I've only seen one regen cycle with this truck and it appears to take less time than my 6.4L did. The downside is that the message doesn't stay on the screen so you have to guess based on the MPG change when it's done.

My 6.7 has 1,389 on it and for the last 700 miles goes into regen every 85 to 90 miles. I have watched other post that say regen anywhere from 200 to 500 miles.

Mine does the same thing too. If I am driving lots of short trips, the truck never really heats up and the truck will regen REALLY often. I've taken to jumping on the freeway when I see the message and drive until the instant mileage meter goes back to normal (always less than 10 mins). When I do this, I only regen once a tank.

I sure wish Ford would put some regen monitoring info on the display. The second screen behind the instant mileage screen that has the bar graph display of fuel usage is pretty useless. I'd love to see some detailed regen info on that screen like Time to Next Regen, and Regen in Process, etc. Some history there of past regens would be great. Ford?

My regens are based on higway driving, I would love to see just 2 regens per tank of fuel. I agree it would be nice to have more info on the regen process.

Interesting. Do you know where you heard or read this? I'd like to know more about it. My Salesman said it did not pump any fuel back into the motor, it was all handled by the DEF fluid. Now I know, I know .... he was just a salesman, but that's why I'd like to read and learn more.

One more great example of a salesman 'tard. DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) is used with a catalyst in the exhaust system to convert the NOx to harmless nitrogen and oxygen. The regen process (exhaust filter cleaning) is employed to burn off the black diesel exhaust soot that is collected in the DPF (diesel particulate filter). Ford injects raw diesel fuel into the exhaust stroke on one side of the engine which travels downstream and heats the DPF to a high enough temperature that the soot is converted to harmless ash.

The salesman is a DORK.

Here's some good reading: http://media.ford.com/images/10031/S...rtreatment.pdf

And a good statement from Ford:

The combustion system is the heart of the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine and in many ways encapsulates the careful balancing act the Ford team achieved in terms of power, fuel economy and reduced emissions. The key factor in the next round of federal emissions standards, which begin in 2010, is the reduction of oxides of nitrogen (NOx). To help reduce NOx, the new Power Stroke burns cleaner, thanks to an innovative way Ford developed to cool the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to efficiently recycle the combustion gases in the system.

Ford’s system runs the engine with the least amount of oxygen possible in order to reduce NOx without degrading performance and fuel economy. Ford’s solution runs the EGR through a two-step process utilizing separate cooling sources, something not typically seen. The end result is the EGR is brought into the intake at a lower temperature, which means more of it can be utilized, creating greater efficiency throughout the system.

A unique piston bowl design and the high-pressure fuel-injection equipment are huge enablers in achieving the balance of power and lower emissions. The system can deliver up to five injection events per cylinder per cycle, while eight holes in the injector spray fuel into the bowl.

The compressed-air ignition unique to diesels is aided by pilot fuel injections before the piston reaches the top, allowing the charge to heat up even hotter than what you get under normal compression.

“Then when the main injection occurs, we can mitigate NVH because we have a slower ignition process,” said Gryglak. “When the fuel burns, it doesn’t burn with a traditional pop or bang. The direct-injection system is calibrated and phased for optimum power, fuel efficiency and NVH.”

The new diesel engine features instant-start glow plugs, allowing quick start even in extremely cold temperatures.

How the new Power Stroke meets new emissions standards

The new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel will employ an aftertreatment system to help comply with 2010 federal regulations to reduce nitrogen-oxide levels in diesel emissions by more than 80 percent compared with the previous standard. The Ford aftertreatment system is a three-stage process; a key component is the use of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF).

Injection of DEF to reduce NOx is a proven technology that’s been used throughout the automotive industry. Unlike other solutions used to control NOx, the DEF system allows the diesel engine to run at its optimum range in terms of fuel mixture. Some systems require the engine to run richer – which can be harmful to diesel engines – in order to control the NOx.

Step One: Cleaning and Heating – The first step in cleaning the diesel exhaust occurs when the exhaust stream enters the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC). The role of the DOC is twofold. First, it converts and oxidizes hydrocarbons into water and carbon dioxide. This conversion happens at about 250 degrees Celsius.

Second, the DOC is used to provide and promote heat, using specific engine management strategies, into the exhaust system. Through appropriate thermal management, this heat increases the conversion efficiency of the downstream subsystem(s) in reducing emissions.

Step Two: Knocking Out the NOx – The next step in the process is what’s known as Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR). In this process, the NOx in the exhaust stream is converted into water and inert nitrogen, which is present in the atmosphere and harmless. Before the exhaust gas enters the SCR chamber, it is dosed with DEF, an aqueous solution that is approximately 67.5 percent water and 32.5 percent pure urea.

When heated, the DEF splits into ammonia and carbon dioxide. These molecules are atomized, and vaporized, then enter a mixer that resembles a corkscrew. This twist mixer evenly distributes the ammonia within the exhaust flow. The ammonia enters the SCR module, which contains a catalyzed substrate, and through chemical reactions combines and converts the NOx and ammonia into the harmless inert nitrogen and water. Dosing occurs between 200 and 500 degrees Celsius.

Step Three: Scrubbing Away the Soot – The final part of the cleansing system for the diesel exhaust gas involves the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). The DPF traps any remaining soot, which is then periodically burned away, known as regenerating, when sensors detect the trap is full. The regeneration process sees temperatures in excess of 600 degrees Celsius to burn away soot.

Thanks for the info!!

Why in the world would Ford not use a ninth injector and inject the diesel needed for regen directly into the exhaust. With the complaints about the 6.4 'gaining' oil from the diesel used for regen getting past the rings and into the oil, it just seems like a no brainer to do it differently. The ninth injector, even though Govmt. Motors uses it, sure seems like a better idea.

just had an oil analysis done with 7200 miles on the oil and it only showed <.5% fuel in oil. Seem like it is doing a pretty good job at not making oil.

Thanks for that info, would like to see more analyses from the 6.7s. Hope this is a non issue but as the engine wears the likelihood of diesel getting past the rings increases. I really hate to see this as I was heavily leaning on the Ford for my next purchase. I was thinking the 6.7 went with the ninth injector. My son just got a GMC Duramax and GM has done a good job with strengthening the frame and front end on the 11 models. Guess I will just have to pedal the 7.3 a bit longer to see how the 6.7s shake out.

Where was your oil level at (cold) on the dipstick using the short stick method (if you tried that) prior to changing it?

Sgrol

What are you hating to see here? Ford designed the engine with a life span goal of at least 250000 miles. They accumulated 10 million miles of road testing. They are running these test vehicles around the clock. Ford certainly has the needed lab and engineering equipment to monitor diesel fuel migration into the engine oil. I may be whistling past the graveyard here but I have to believe this well known diesel engine design issue has been very well vetted in the extensive testing that Ford has done on their new pride and joy. So far, the talented techs who make this site so important for the Ford commoners like me have reported no continually haunting failures. For a new engine with over 300 patents within it's design, that seems like a great start. I know the field time on the new engine is short right now but Ford has to know that this is their last chance to regain the trust of the faithful following that they have really let down with the last two engine series. That was what gave me the confidence to buy this new truck. Well that and Cheezit would not let me buy a 6.4.:-missingt:-missingt:-missingt

I hate to see the same regen routine that the 6.4 uses when the 6.4 has known fuel dilution
issues. Hope it's a mute issue. Time will tell.

As 6.7's begin to wear I believe it will be an issue. Some will do it and some wont (just like the 6.4). The unburned fuel that's in the cylinder during regen will slide past the rings and the fuel will get into the oil. Just like the 6.4 Ford probably will tolerate a certain amount of fuel dilution in the oil and will say that it's normal.

Thanks for all the responses so far. This is a good debate to have. My 6.4 has been in the shop several more times that what I ever expected for leaks, seals, hoses, multiple radiators, sun roof leaking, etc. I'm considering a 3500HD or 6.7 350. I'm simply "afraid" of going Ford next time based on getting a first year engine from Ford. Had I never owned the 6.4, I would be oblivious to the regen and the fuel in the oil concern. My oil has always been way over full by the next oil change. I did test drive a 6.7 F250 4wd Lariat and I have to admit, the truck was sweet. Everything appears to be "better", that's what makes it so hard to consider another truck.

Correction: meant to say known oil dilution issues.

It appears to me that in principle the regen process is the same but in practice there are major differences in the way the regen is accomplished. I did not own a 6.4 but what I have gleaned from admittedly small research is the 6.4 regen were quite long in duration. I have been told the advanced egr and associated emission control advances also have significantly reduced the completion time of the regen process. I can say that I have watched the clock and the mileage readings whenever I caught the message that regen had begun. I only lose around 2 to 3 tenths of a mpg over 8 to 10 minutes before the mileage begins to climb back up. I gained no oil, visual inspection only, during my first 4900 mile oil change interval.

Don't mean to hijack, but how did the oil look @ 7200 miles?

International designed the 6.0/6.4 to last at least 250,000 miles also! I find it very hard to believe the 6.4 will make it that long without some serious work to it. The regen process is brutal to these engines.

Anyone who is concerned about the regen process on the 6.7 has a valid concern IMO!

I would like to see actual UOA's on the 6.7 to confirm that fuel dilution doesn't occurr with the 6.7 because there is no combustion efficiency during regen since the exhaust valves are open during this process.

Troy,

I did not put those emoticons in my post where you quoted them. I put them following my Cheezit comment. I just wanted to clarify that.

My 6.4 usually completes regens in 10 minutes also. I always set my timer when I go into regen. The only time it will take longer is in city stop and go traffic which is not good for it anyway on either motor. I only lose around 2 to 3 tenths of mpgs also according to the meter. So little to no difference there.

The big difference in the 6.4 and the 6.7 during regens is the fact that the 6.7 only uses the left side injectors for regen, while the 6.4 uses all injectors.

The design life of the 6.4 is 350,000 miles not 250,000. According to their website. Everything else you stated I completely agree with.

Sorry... I didn't mean to take your missing teeth laugh out of context!

All is well. I just did not want any confusion where I stand here... right...

I picked up my truck with 198 miles on it. I saw my first regen at 245.

Fellas,
I am a 6.0 owner but do have an interest in the 6.7 so I am following the posts. Does anyone have a clue when tuning will be availabe for this thing? That would solve the regen issue as you would be able to prevent if from regening (i.e. Spartan for the 6.4). I know I know I know, that will have to wait until its out of warranty...just curious.

Yall keep up the hard work and posting info. I have to know that this thing is or can be bullet proof before I pull the trigger on buying.....and DAMN they are FINE!

Thanks (sorry for the hijack)

:-kneeslap