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Snow Plowing
Chewing on the idea of rigging up a plow on the front of my truck however, this is a topic I know nothing about. I'm interested to know how hard it would be on my truck as far a components or other aspects of wear and tear, rusting, or breakage!
I was wondering if anyone has much experience on this topic or know just what exactly is involved hooking up and unhooking a plow and all the fixins to a daily driver, I wonder if it's worth it. I have an extra clean King Ranch one ton that has the "camper package" and the heavy duty alternator upgrade, to me it's too "nice" of a truck to be a winter beast of burden because right now there is zero rust on the chassis, but that's just because I'm particular about taking care of this truck. It happens to be a crew cab long bed w/ shell so I'm guessing adding a salt spreader would be out since taking the shell off and on is too much of a hassle. It seems a standard cab would work better but this is all I got to work with. My truck is the automatic and I don't know if it would need some kind of a transmission cooler or whatever else that might help. Any thoughts on turning this thing into a plow truck? |
Many magazines say that plowing is proven to be harder on a vehicle than salting. I would say BS, because you can basically replace anything that wears out. You cannot, on the other hand, fix lots of rust. Additionally, you will encounter too many times, where a client will see the amount of salt applied for safety in a given month and the price attached and scram. I personally feel salt is just not worth it in the long run.
Now as for your truck, with the camper package, which I believe has X code springs. You will be more than fine with a plow. Hell, basically any Super Duty will be fine for a plow. I don't know what year your truck is, but with the Crew Cab and 8" bed, that truck will be like driving a Semi. The coil-overs reduced the turning radius slightly, but nowhere near what you need to be. Plus, with the truck in 4wd, you will get a lot of torque binding. Now if you aren't looking to screw anything up, you don't want to be turning when binding. In short, turns are not your friend. Lastly, if you are going to plow, invest in a good undercoating, and maintain it annually. It will go farther in the long run by protecting your truck more than any other investment, especially when plowing. Even if you do not use salt on your truck, you will be exposed to it. |
Salt not worth it??? Seriously??? I make far more off of salt than I do any other aspect of winter services! A tailgate spreader can pay for itself in less than 2 applications. I've been at this for a lot of years, and I strongly disagree with you. Driving around in the crap is a lot worse than tossing salt out of a salt spreader, and spreading salt is far less wear and tear than plowing.
Plowing is hard on trucks, there is no question about it. The tranny takes a lot of abuse constantly going between drive and reverse, especially if you're not careful about making sure the truck is stopped and no wheels are spinning before hitting reverse. The torqueshift is a good trans, and they have very good coolers on them right from the factory, so no worries there. Front end components wear out much more quickly as well. For comparison of my 05 to your 06, my truck has had all 4 ball joints replaced, the steering gear box will be getting done in the next couple weeks, and I'm waiting for the front bearings to go, I'm surprised they've lasted this long. Raise my 05 up in the air, and the underside looks like it's a 95 versus an 05, it's very rusty underneath, even though I try to wash it every storm. When you're out plowing, the cities are typically salting the crap out of the roads at the same time, and the early morning time is the worst, the saltwater and slush on the road is downright potent, and rust and corrosion is all but a given. Then there's the collateral damage as well, tree branches scraping your paint, shovels smacking the sides of the box, getting "just a little too close to that mailbox", the plow flinging rocks back on your hood and windshield when returning from tripping on a curb, snow falling back agaist the truck when the banks get a little higher, etc. Alot of stuff people dont realize until they go out and do it. If you take a lot of pride in your truck, hanging a plow on it is the last thing I'd do. You've got to have the ability to overlook the little stuff if you're going to plow with it, this was tough for me when I first started out as well, but it's so common, another scratch in the paint barely even phases me any more... Your truck would plow fine, in a big open area. That's a long truck for plowing. My 05 is a crew cab short box, and it's a bull in a china shop in tight areas, I couldn't image trying to plow with anything longer. All this being said, if you've never plowed before, I'd suggest working for someone else first, before you spend the money on setting up your own truck. This business is no where near as easy as it sounds, and the profit margins are slim as there is a huge amount of competition. With the economy this year, you kind of picked a really bad time to get into this business, it's been brutal this year. Customers are trying to save a buck, while there's a surplus of unemployed people hanging "credit card plows" on their trucks to make a quick buck, way undercharging not realizing the extra upkeep, extra insurance, etc, required before they ever see any profit. Many of the veterans will be happy to simply pay the bills this year. Sitting in a truck plowing all night is really hard on the body as well, especially as we get a little older. Get a big storm, and you can easily get stuck in your truck for a couple days at a time. Add to this screaming customers, equipment failures, employee issues, stupid people unknowingly getting in your way, competitors pushing snow into the properties you service, etc, and a glove box full of blood pressure meds is also a good idea. Not trying to discourage you, but there's a lot more to it than just "hooking up a plow and making money". |
WOW,,,Wizardsr,,, what a great discription of "SnowPlowing",,and he is Spot on with all the stuff that happens to your truck !!!
My 06' F-350 4x4, Six-O,,S-Cab, S-Bed has had a Fisher MM frame on it since I picked it up New,,,while the frame on the truck is no Issue,,,,plowing and all the things that happen are tough on your truck. My drivers door has a few ripples at the bottom from a damn 24"-30" snow ball that was rolled up when plowing,,that wet packing type snow,,,,I thought my Chrome step bars took care of it,,until I heard my door flexing,,,and this is snow that was just plowed,,,not something that sat and Froze up 30 mins later,,,scratchs from bush's,,,sandy snow,,,sandy slush being splashed back on the truck,,,windsheild,,side windows,,wipers on and opening windows,,,well just imagine the rest,,,,then ,,,and just think about this,,,,,then,,,Getting Accused by some F#@%ing Moron that One of the Plow guys hit my truck !!! I plow with my truck for a good friend of mine,,,$85 an hour not bad money when all else is slow,,,,we have plowed this big Company for years,,,I get a call from him,,,,WE have an issue he says,,,someone says we hit his truck,,,,I know,,, I did not hit anybody,,,,He tells me the same thing,,,OK he meets with the plant manager,,,take a look,,,Nope not from a Snowplow,,,like from a mailbox,,,or stick,,,Not from us,,,the guy keeps insisting it is from the Plow Guys,,,,,Come to find out,,,his Derrilic(spelling) Kids were in his truck,,and it went for Roll in his driveway,,into the Pucker Brush !!! This was observed by a Nuetral bystander,,,what a P. O. S. !!!! All these are things that you can count on,,,plus more if you have never plowed before,,,,,Rolling up someones lawn like a carpet,,,,,,,,,,Oh thats Fricken NICE !!!!!! Backing out when traffic permits,,,,drop the plow,,,start pushing in the entrance,,,plow hits the edge of the apron,,, where the pavers did'nt slope it for a plow,,catching it,,tripping your plow,,,BANG,,truck stops,,plow jumps,,,,all while traffic is in your way,,,,Just Fricken Awesome !!!,,,,,OK,,thats just a few,,,Now go plunk down atleast $4,500 bucks,,and have FUN !!! Dont forget studded snow tires,,,for about $700 to $1000 bucks now,,,well thats if you dont want to slide all over the place. |
This is eactly why I didnt go that route with my truck. I have a 06 Crew Short Box, which is spotless. i was looking for used plows, new plows etc. The cost was just too much for me. I won and operate my own repair shop so I was just looking for something to plow the lot and do some driveways when its slow...definately not my main buisness.
I went and found a decent 85 k20...yeah its achevy but its actually still a truck (not like todays Chevys). Its simple, not pretty, but it works and its a tank, plus I wont screw up my nice truck. I paid 1500 for it and have about 300 init plus 200 a year to insure it so for 2000 bucks I have a plow, a truck I can whoop on, get in when dirty and not worry. it would have cost me between 3500-4500 for a plow for my truck depending on make and features. You may want to look into it. I wouldnt put a plow on your truck, its gonna suck for residential work, just like mine would have, plus you have a KR, I have a larait, dont do it to your flawless truck you will hate yourself. Sarge |
Yep I think sarge is right,,get a Beater,,,cheap,,,dont have to look pretty,,,both of your trucks are too nice to messup plowing!
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Originally Posted by wizardsr
(Post 8004386)
. If you take a lot of pride in your truck, hanging a plow on it is the last thing I'd do. .
Its just about completely used up. in the last couple years, we replaced most of the front end ...and we just use the truck to plow our 2 locations,and a few employee's houses |
Originally Posted by wizardsr
(Post 8004386)
Salt not worth it??? Seriously??? I make far more off of salt than I do any other aspect of winter services! A tailgate spreader can pay for itself in less than 2 applications. I've been at this for a lot of years, and I strongly disagree with you. Driving around in the crap is a lot worse than tossing salt out of a salt spreader, and spreading salt is far less wear and tear than plowing.
Again, I would disagree. It is very difficult to repair rust on a truck, not to mention parts of a frame that have severe rust on them. With a plow, yes, some cosmetic items might get beat up, but you can basically replace everything that will take the most abuse. Try replacing a rusted through frame. And the biggest problem with salt is not the fact that it won't pay for itself, but that customers will not pay for it. With salt prices at $100 or more a ton last year, I heard of many whose customers refused to pay for salt applied. So now, your eating the price of salt itself and the cost of the spreader, not to mention what it does to the underbody of the vehicle. Longevity is key here. Plowing is hard on trucks, there is no question about it. The tranny takes a lot of abuse constantly going between drive and reverse, especially if you're not careful about making sure the truck is stopped and no wheels are spinning before hitting reverse. The torqueshift is a good trans, and they have very good coolers on them right from the factory, so no worries there. Front end components wear out much more quickly as well. For comparison of my 05 to your 06, my truck has had all 4 ball joints replaced, the steering gear box will be getting done in the next couple weeks, and I'm waiting for the front bearings to go, I'm surprised they've lasted this long. Raise my 05 up in the air, and the underside looks like it's a 95 versus an 05, it's very rusty underneath, even though I try to wash it every storm. When you're out plowing, the cities are typically salting the crap out of the roads at the same time, and the early morning time is the worst, the saltwater and slush on the road is downright potent, and rust and corrosion is all but a given. Then there's the collateral damage as well, tree branches scraping your paint, shovels smacking the sides of the box, getting "just a little too close to that mailbox", the plow flinging rocks back on your hood and windshield when returning from tripping on a curb, snow falling back agaist the truck when the banks get a little higher, etc. Alot of stuff people dont realize until they go out and do it. If you take a lot of pride in your truck, hanging a plow on it is the last thing I'd do. You've got to have the ability to overlook the little stuff if you're going to plow with it, this was tough for me when I first started out as well, but it's so common, another scratch in the paint barely even phases me any more... No argument here. In fact, very true. Your truck would plow fine, in a big open area. That's a long truck for plowing. My 05 is a crew cab short box, and it's a bull in a china shop in tight areas, I couldn't image trying to plow with anything longer. Exactly. I got an 02 with leaf springs instead of coil overs and you just can't get the big bitch to turn. All this being said, if you've never plowed before, I'd suggest working for someone else first, before you spend the money on setting up your own truck. This business is no where near as easy as it sounds, and the profit margins are slim as there is a huge amount of competition. With the economy this year, you kind of picked a really bad time to get into this business, it's been brutal this year. Customers are trying to save a buck, while there's a surplus of unemployed people hanging "credit card plows" on their trucks to make a quick buck, way undercharging not realizing the extra upkeep, extra insurance, etc, required before they ever see any profit. Many of the veterans will be happy to simply pay the bills this year. If you don't read anything else of his post. Read this quote. Until you get the hang of plowing, your first 5 times are going to be painful and inefficient. If you have never done this before, it is better to work as an Owner/Operator with a bigger company that has the hang of it. So many people out there simply grab a cheap plow, throw it on whatever, from an ATV, Garden Tractor, Mid Size SUV, Jeep, or whatever and run around. They move it with cheap prices because they have no real overhead, and they undercut all the professional businesses that offer real, extensive, insured, services. The same thing is happening in the Lawn Maintenance Industry. Everybody including your brother's mother has some sort of vehicle and a trailer with lawn mowers. The prices have become so low, that trying to etch out a profit is a real chore. I predict that they will continue to cannibalize themselves until the prices become so low for everybody, that the industry will have a complete collapse. Sitting in a truck plowing all night is really hard on the body as well, especially as we get a little older. Get a big storm, and you can easily get stuck in your truck for a couple days at a time. Add to this screaming customers, equipment failures, employee issues, stupid people unknowingly getting in your way, competitors pushing snow into the properties you service, etc, and a glove box full of blood pressure meds is also a good idea. I have very few problems sitting in a truck. But I'm young, and I made sure when I bought a truck, that it was big enough to comfortably sit my 6' 8" frame. But the rest of that post is very true. If there is one thing that plowing has taught me, is that no matter what your government officials may want you to believe, the private sector is 10x more efficient, any day of the week. There would be many times where I would have to plow a bit of a street or would have a key area blocked by city morons who showed up late to the scene and piled the snow in an area. One moment that I constantly reflect on was during an especially fun storm, I was in 4wd going up a main road, with very few cars on the road, and I was hydroplaning on slush and crud, each wheel constantly slipping intermittently, with 2 month old tires on. (Yoko Geolandar AT/S'es BTW.) Not trying to discourage you, but there's a lot more to it than just "hooking up a plow and making money". |
yup your first plow truck should be a beater this super duty is my 3rd plow truck I know how to plow and you will scuff up your truck...had mine touched up this spring the more you do the more likely you will.... point is if you plow make a profit... (to fix up your stuff)
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Pinky, obviously your experience is different than mine, likely because we're talking about different types of clientele, different priorities, sales techniques, different equipment, etc. I have far more rust on trucks due to salt on the roads spraying the underside than actually spreading salt. My trucks that dont spread salt have just as much rust as the ones that do.
Customers ARE willing to pay for salt, but if you haven't thoroughly educated the customer on the benefits of deicing, you're absolutely right, it's going to be a tough sell. Salt is far more profitable than plowing, and as I said above, the difference between rust on a plow only truck and plow and salt truck is nill. Again, our experiences are obviously different, so we'll agree to disagree on this one. :-drink Plowing for me is a profession, not a side gig. If I tried to keep trucks pretty, while making enough money to support my family, I'd go insane. If someone wants to be a professional, have the appropriate insurance, deal with the customers, be accepting that your new truck just got a scrape from a tree branch, etc, that's one thing. But you've got to be all in. I wouldn't hang a plow and expect a cash cow from tooling around in the snow in a new truck for a few hours, this business just doesn't work that way. I run newer equipment versus the stereo-typical "Mr Plow" truck, but again, I do this for a living, not for beer money. There's nice "toy" trucks, and there's dirty "work" trucks, often times the newer work truck is in alot worse shape than the older "toy" truck, just a difference in how you use them. Typically the result of trying to mix the two is a very frustrated owner. |
just my two cents!!
i've been plowing over ten years now and have two words for it-"over rated". |
Originally Posted by wizardsr
(Post 8011138)
Pinky, obviously your experience is different than mine, likely because we're talking about different types of clientele, different priorities, sales techniques, different equipment, etc. I have far more rust on trucks due to salt on the roads spraying the underside than actually spreading salt. My trucks that dont spread salt have just as much rust as the ones that do.
Customers ARE willing to pay for salt, but if you haven't thoroughly educated the customer on the benefits of deicing, you're absolutely right, it's going to be a tough sell. Salt is far more profitable than plowing, and as I said above, the difference between rust on a plow only truck and plow and salt truck is nill. Again, our experiences are obviously different, so we'll agree to disagree on this one. :-drink |
Originally Posted by Pinky Demon
(Post 8011299)
It's not so much selling them on it in the first place. They all want salt at the beginning, and they see the benefits. It's just that when push comes to shove, they don't want to pay for it when they get their bill. We have seriously had clients pay only the portion of the bill that covered removal of the snow, with an addendum that they refuse to pay the salt bill because it's too high. No joke. We tried explaining that we do not set the prices, but to no avail.
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I plowed snow in Vermont for over 22 years for AOT, and that's long enough.
I hire mine done, I have so much hydraulic fluid in my veins I do oil changes not transfusions. I dont mind grabbing a friends pick up plow and having some fun, they are sportscars compared to tandem axle 15 yard plows, reversibles with right and left side wings, but notice I said "a friends pickup". I'm not beating hell outta mine for the fun of it, but I will yours! LOL. |
Originally Posted by wizardsr
(Post 8011378)
Sounds like you got caught up in the artificial salt "shortage" without a paddle. We stock all of our anticipated usage at the beginning of the season, and then some, so as to not get burned by a mid-season gouging. The pre-season salt order sets the price that gets printed in the contract, so there's little chance of getting caught with our pants down and losing money on it, or having to increase the price mid-season. Regardless, if you had a contract with the customer, and charged them according to the contract, they really have no reason not to pay. If you charged them more than quoted in the contract, I cant say I blame them for not paying more than what they had agreed to.
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