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Here is a diagram I have saved in my 'hydroboost' file, maybe it will help:
http://studmonkeyracing.com/forums/hyd.JPG |
Thank you for the diagram. Much appreciated.
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great thread. would like to know more about the GM T used for the lines. seems it would be less clutter.
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What year f450 Super-duty did you guys use the hydro-boost setup off of?
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Power Steering Pump
How well did the power steering pump from the F-450 install in your 76 F-250? I just put hydroboost in my 77 F-100. I used the booster from a 2008 F-250 and adapted to my factory 77 F-100 pump. The F-250 calls for Mercon V fluid and my 77 calls for regular old power steering fluid. I flushed my system and went with Mercon V assuming the booster would be the pickiest component. It doesn't seem to be working perfectly and now the pump is doing the classic ford power steering whine. I was thinking about getting a pump like the one from you f-450 and trying it out but I don't want to have to reengineer my entire accessory pulley system to do so. Let me know what you think.
Thanks! P.S. I suppose let me know what fluid type you ran too. Thanks again. |
Hi, For a year I used a Saginaw Pump then switched to a Borgeson. I was having trouble with the pedal not returning and when it was really cold out the PS wouldn't work for about 60 seconds. And of course the Saginaw whine. If you look at
WILD HORSES 4X4 Off-Road Bronco Parts and Accessories they have the pumps, bracket and pulleys, I ended up just calling them and they helped me get the right setup "duel return and stuff" and were really nice guys. If you use the Borgeson it takes PS fluids not transmission, I went one step further and put in synthetic. |
Sweet! Good info. I just bought a power steering pump from a 2000 f-350. I'm not sure if its a Saginaw or burgeson but from what I can tell with a few measurements, it has the same mount holes and pulley shaft as my original. It also has the dual return ports. I will know better in a couple of days how well (or not) it works. I'm also having an issue with my pedal fully returning. It's not far off, only about a half inch, that's enough to keep my brake lights on. I used my original master cylinder but I'm also wondering if the pushrod between the master cylinder and the booster is not the right length for my set up. I used the rod that came with the hydroboost but I'm considering swapping it with the one from my original vacuum booster. We'll see how it turns out. If that is not possible or doesn't fix the issue, I have the master cylinder that came with the hydroboost that I may try. Obviously its for a disc/disc setup but I have an adjustable prop valve that I have been wanting to install anyways. Will update when I get more done.
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Compare the rod hole in the master cylinder piston. There are two types. One is a shallow hole which works with hydroboost. The other is a deep hole which is usually used on vacuum boosters. The rods from the boosters are not interchangeable. Someone makes an adapter plug that fits the deep hole so the master cylinder can be used with a hydro booster. It looks like a bullett with two o rings on the outside of it to hold it in place. I can not recall where I saw it but it was either Jegs or Ebay. This is one of the reasons you do not get full pedal return.
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Originally Posted by scull122
(Post 16068791)
Sweet! Good info. I just bought a power steering pump from a 2000 f-350. I'm not sure if its a Saginaw or burgeson but from what I can tell with a few measurements, it has the same mount holes and pulley shaft as my original. It also has the dual return ports. I will know better in a couple of days how well (or not) it works. I'm also having an issue with my pedal fully returning. It's not far off, only about a half inch, that's enough to keep my brake lights on. I used my original master cylinder but I'm also wondering if the pushrod between the master cylinder and the booster is not the right length for my set up. I used the rod that came with the hydroboost but I'm considering swapping it with the one from my original vacuum booster. We'll see how it turns out. If that is not possible or doesn't fix the issue, I have the master cylinder that came with the hydroboost that I may try. Obviously its for a disc/disc setup but I have an adjustable prop valve that I have been wanting to install anyways. Will update when I get more done.
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1 Attachment(s)
I finally got mine working. I ended up putting in the master cylinder from the same '08 F-250 that i got the booster from, along with a new prop valve with an adjustable rear and a 10lb residual valve for the rear circuit. I'm running a pump from a '00 F-350 and it's working WAY better now. Very firm pedal feel and amazing stopping power. My only issue now is the pump is incredibly noisy. I'm getting the typical Ford power steering pump whine but it's a brand new pump. Thinking I may have bought a lemon, i took it back to O'Reillys and swapped it for another. Same thing. Now i'm kind of just hoping that maybe there's still some air trapped in there somewhere that will work its way out soon. I know, it's a long shot, but here's to hoping. If not, i suppose I'll look into a pump from a old lincoln. It seems like i saw that someone used one of those either on this thread or another. I will be going back through and reading again to see if i can find it. If that fixes it, it will still be cheaper than any of the hydroboost kits i found. I'm in it for about $350 or so right now. Another $75 or so for another pump is doable...disappointing, but doable. I'll try and post a photo but i've never done that here so we'll see if it works. Lol.
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I have a question..im using a hydroboost off a e450 van. Do i have to drill new holes in the firewall to mount this thing? Because it wont line up with the current bolt holes..they are too far up.
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2 Attachment(s)
I got my hydroboost in but the pedal rod is bent down BUT it still pushes in when i push the brake pedal.
Had to grind some of the bend out of the brake pedal to get the pedal rod to line up better. What does everyone think? Attachment 196517 Attachment 196518 |
Originally Posted by ManfredVonRichtofen
(Post 16330907)
I'm working on a setup right now that should allow me to keep my cruise cancel switch. |
How are you going to do that?
Yeah im going to get either a longer bolt or thinner nut |
How are you going to do that?
Yeah im going to get either a longer bolt or thinner nut |
I'm using a Astrovan booster. The pushrod was an inch too long anyway so I cut it down and cut the end off my bellcrank linkage from my booster. I had a coworker mill out a 3/8 slot down the center of the flatbar and ground flat spots on the booster pushrod. I then ground the pushrod down until the flatbar eye was the same distance from the mounting surface as it was on the bellcrank. Tomorrow I will weld it together. I will take pics. I plan on mounting it up this weekend.
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This may sound like a very stupid question, but does the angle of the pedal pushrod matter? I know I am looking at swapping a hydroboost from a SupaDootie(88) into my 84 F250 and the pushrod pin is located in different positions...hydroboost is 3/4" higher than the vacuum booster location..ON THE BRAKE PEDAL.
Just wondering if this applys to the bump/dentside trucks or not. Thanks Lance |
What is everyone using for a proportioning valve for a disc/disc setup? This is the mount I made to run a 2007 F250 booster/MC on my 1977 high boy.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3c4d5a33d2.jpg Tobin https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...755845b393.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...8693f29824.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7e115a483c.jpg |
Originally Posted by high6
(Post 16552136)
What is everyone using for a proportioning valve for a disc/disc setup? This is the mount I made to run a 2007 F250 booster/MC on my 1977 high boy.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3c4d5a33d2.jpg Tobin https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...755845b393.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...8693f29824.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7e115a483c.jpg thank god my hydroboost didnt need much fabbing for the conversion. |
I bought two from E series vans. These have shorter pedal rods. Reason I bought two is one is an early version and the other is a late version. Early version has standard thread ports and the late is metric thread. I haven't installed either one yet, but hoping no spacer needed or I might need to lengthen the rod. I will see if I can find the years that separate the series standard to metric port threads.
Edit to add: I found the year models. Standard thread ports 2004-2007 E350 E450 6.0 Superduty Metric Thread ports 2008-2013 E450 6.0 Superduty |
Originally Posted by lance65
(Post 16513445)
This may sound like a very stupid question, but does the angle of the pedal pushrod matter? I know I am looking at swapping a hydroboost from a SupaDootie(88) into my 84 F250 and the pushrod pin is located in different positions...hydroboost is 3/4" higher than the vacuum booster location..ON THE BRAKE PEDAL.
Just wondering if this applys to the bump/dentside trucks or not. Thanks Lance |
It is best to have it as straight a push as possible. Understand that if you change the pin location to match booster mounting point you have changed pedal ratio. If you move the booster mounting to match the pin location then the pedal ratio will stay the same.
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Originally Posted by Monstermiler
(Post 16555563)
I bought two from E series vans. These have shorter pedal rods. Reason I bought two is one is an early version and the other is a late version. Early version has standard thread ports and the late is metric thread. I haven't installed either one yet, but hoping no spacer needed or I might need to lengthen the rod. I will see if I can find the years that separate the series standard to metric port threads.
Edit to add: I found the year models. Standard thread ports 2004-2007 E350 E450 6.0 Superduty Metric Thread ports 2008-2013 E450 6.0 Superduty
Originally Posted by lance65
(Post 16558091)
ANYONE?...........
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This is a wonderful thread, but I have questions!!!
1) Can the hydroboost be "clocked" so that the canister is in-line with the master cylinder? Yes, the hydroboost can be inverted (rotated 180 degrees) so that it is upside down, but I want to know if it can be clocked to an alternative location so there are more than 2 options. It seems to me that the canister may be in the way of getting at those rear bolts on the valve covers... particularly if you have a 400 or 460! 2) Can someone confirm the list of vehicles below that have hydroboosts? I've split the list into "requires modification" and "no modification". Hydroboost Set-ups - Requires modification: 1999 - 2007 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 1999 - 2007 E350, E450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 2008 - 2013 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) 2008 - 2013 E350, E450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) Chevy Astrovan (year was not listed) Hydroboost Set-ups - No modification: From my understanding, there are no units on this thread to date that DO NOT require modification of the connecting rod from the hydroboost to the pedal linkage. 3) At what distance should the hydroboost be mounted away from the firewall to match the existing pedal location? In other words, how big of a shim do we need for each different set-up? Power Steering Pump Set-ups: 1977- Saginaw PS pump (with Low-Pressure return line) 1978+ Saginaw PS pump (with Low-Pressure return line) OR - the same power steering pump of the vehicle you got the hydroboost from: 1999 - 2007 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 1999 - 2007 E350, E450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 2008 - 2013 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) 2008 - 2013 E350, E450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) Please add to the above posts so readers don't have to spend so much time sifting through the thread (I.E. thread sizes for each power steering pump set-up, thread sizes for the hydroboosts, etc). |
Close. I used a 94 FSuperduty HB, and the only "modification" was to flip the back plate around. Other than that, it bolted right to the firewall and 79 pedal setup.
I say this because ford had about 1,000,000 brake pedal/booster combos, but this is what worked for me. |
Can anyone tell me where to get the hoses for a hydroboost conversion and a crown vic swap? Has someone done this?
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Originally Posted by Aaron-71
(Post 16679573)
This is a wonderful thread, but I have questions!!!
1) Can the hydroboost be "clocked" so that the canister is in-line with the master cylinder? Yes, the hydroboost can be inverted (rotated 180 degrees) so that it is upside down, but I want to know if it can be clocked to an alternative location so there are more than 2 options. It seems to me that the canister may be in the way of getting at those rear bolts on the valve covers... particularly if you have a 400 or 460! 2) Can someone confirm the list of vehicles below that have hydroboosts? I've split the list into "requires modification" and "no modification". Hydroboost Set-ups - Requires modification: 1999 - 2007 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 1999 - 2007 E350, E450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 2008 - 2013 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) 2008 - 2013 E350, E450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) Chevy Astrovan (year was not listed) Hydroboost Set-ups - No modification: From my understanding, there are no units on this thread to date that DO NOT require modification of the connecting rod from the hydroboost to the pedal linkage. 3) At what distance should the hydroboost be mounted away from the firewall to match the existing pedal location? In other words, how big of a shim do we need for each different set-up? Power Steering Pump Set-ups: 1977- Saginaw PS pump (with Low-Pressure return line) 1978+ Saginaw PS pump (with Low-Pressure return line) OR - the same power steering pump of the vehicle you got the hydroboost from: 1999 - 2007 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 1999 - 2007 E350, E450 with 6.0L (SAE Threads) 2008 - 2013 F250, F350, F450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) 2008 - 2013 E350, E450 with 6.0L (Metric Threads) Please add to the above posts so readers don't have to spend so much time sifting through the thread (I.E. thread sizes for each power steering pump set-up, thread sizes for the hydroboosts, etc). |
Originally Posted by highoctane74
(Post 16690729)
Would the 76-79 Lincoln 's not work for this set up? I was looking at one today. Busy searching these threads and it is brain overload...
I would recommend getting some more info on the linkage length before you purchase. |
Originally Posted by Mtrprts
(Post 16686973)
Can anyone tell me where to get the hoses for a hydroboost conversion and a crown vic swap? Has someone done this?
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My truck 1986 f150 4x4 original owner
Swapped whole rear end to a 2003 lightning (4 wheel disc brakes now) Built a 408ci motor with little vacuum and now brakes suck I have read a lot on this thread and have a question on which hydro pump to use.... One that is Pre or Post 2001? why are there so many to choose from.... I have read that people have slotted the 4 bolts holes in the firewall to align rod to brake pedal so I do not think that will be an issue, maybe its all about matching my current 1986 flared brake lines to master cylinder... I have already upgraded to a Saginaw P series sepentine setup(1200PSI) so I think I would have to use the "T" setup and run a cooler. |
My $.02: I did the swap a couple of years ago. I used the Astro Van Hydro unit (1994). I have a 75 F250 that had drums in the rear.
I needed good brakes. I changed to the dual diaphram vacuum booster. That wasn't good enough. I swapped to the chevy calipers in the rear. I was an improvement, but not enough. The HB was excellent. Brakes are fearless now, but ... The steering suffered. In tight spot it just seemed to stop being power for moments. So now I'm swapping to a Saginaw pump. It came oem on a 76 LTD with a 460 and HB. It has the dual return lines. Hopefully, that will take care of the fading steering. I'm also changing to the El Dorado ebrake calipers. |
Originally Posted by Mister86f150
(Post 16766057)
My truck 1986 f150 4x4 original owner
Swapped whole rear end to a 2003 lightning (4 wheel disc brakes now) Built a 408ci motor with little vacuum and now brakes suck I have read a lot on this thread and have a question on which hydro pump to use.... One that is Pre or Post 2001? why are there so many to choose from.... I have read that people have slotted the 4 bolts holes in the firewall to align rod to brake pedal so I do not think that will be an issue, maybe its all about matching my current 1986 flared brake lines to master cylinder... I have already upgraded to a Saginaw P series sepentine setup(1200PSI) so I think I would have to use the "T" setup and run a cooler. Keep the push rod straight. Use a Hydro with it's oem mate master to avoid compatibility issues. If you cut/weld on the hb rod, keep the other end cool with ice or whatever, so you don't ruin seals in the hb. Because there are so many units being put in so many vehicles, the universal answer to hose issues seems to be to have custom ones made, or make them yourself. Always use dual return lines. |
Reviving a Dead Thread:
Did anyone use a device to meter (raise, lower) the pressure into the steering gear box?
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Other than increasing spring pressure in the pressure relief valve of the pump there no adjustment to raise pressure.
Heidts does offer an adjustable bypass valve to reduce hydraulic pressure of the steering box increasing road feel. Download the instructions for installation diagrams. ADJUSTABLE POWER STEERING VALVE (PS-101) - HEIDTS |
Originally Posted by Monstermiler
(Post 16938905)
Other than increasing spring pressure in the pressure relief valve of the pump there no adjustment to raise pressure.
Heidts does offer an adjustable bypass valve to reduce hydraulic pressure of the steering box increasing road feel. Download the instructions for installation diagrams. ADJUSTABLE POWER STEERING VALVE (PS-101) - HEIDTS I read it on Holister road dot com. |
OK I went and read his tech and it is what I thought. He is referring to when you are using rack and pinion steering not a steering box. R and P requires about half the pressure that a steering box does. No need to reduce pressure unless you want more road feel with a steering box.
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Excellent. Thanks for checking. I just assumed my box could not handle the pressure. You saved me $100 and the trouble of installing it. :-drink
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Originally Posted by ford390gashog
(Post 7790741)
The only part I got from the parts store new was the master cylinder.But all the parts I listed can be had new or rebuilt from any parts store.
These are the prices for new parts 190.00 + 50.00 core on F-450 Hydroboost with bracket Pressure hose pump to booster 19.00 Pressure hose booster to steering gear 22.00 |
I use 87-97 F-Superduty (F-450) HB units in the multiple swaps I have done for myself and others, it is by far the least complicated unit to swap in as in the 5 I have done it only required flipping the mounting plate for firewall fitment to be correct and pedal attachment to be good.
I also use Saginaw pumps and lines out of Econolines that are that are appropriate for the engine/belt style of what is in the truck. Put more than 40,xxx miles on my setup with no issues. I am also running a newer E-250 D60 semi float rear with dual piston calipers that match the front calipers on my 78 F-250 and using a 79 F-350 4x4 master cylinder. My setup stops my 78 CCSB with 35" tires easily either empty or loaded with a trailer, with the smaller factory size tires it was difficult to not wear flat spots in the tires during braking. |
Originally Posted by oddfordjunkie
(Post 17094295)
I use 87-97 F-Superduty (F-450) HB units in the multiple swaps I have done for myself and others, it is by far the least complicated unit to swap in as in the 5 I have done it only required flipping the mounting plate for firewall fitment to be correct and pedal attachment to be good.
I also use Saginaw pumps and lines out of Econolines that are that are appropriate for the engine/belt style of what is in the truck. Put more than 40,xxx miles on my setup with no issues. I am also running a newer E-250 D60 semi float rear with dual piston calipers that match the front calipers on my 78 F-250 and using a 79 F-350 4x4 master cylinder. My setup stops my 78 CCSB with 35" tires easily either empty or loaded with a trailer, with the smaller factory size tires it was difficult to not wear flat spots in the tires during braking. |
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