Fuel Gelling
 

Hey Folks,
newbie to the diesel world....well, i have had my truck for 6 months now, but not in the cold. ANyway, i noticed its getting a little chilly out...oh say 30*f and colder. I know that diesel fuel gells in the cold but how cold does it have to get to gel? I don't drive the truck often and its been sitting for the past few weeks. I have anti-gel addititive but is it too late or am I ok? just curious!

If say worst case scenario the fuel has gelled up, how do I deal with this problem?

Thanks,
Al

Just go ahead and add it to your tank and top it off. You will need to drive it for awhile to ensure that the "treated fuel" gets all through your filters and entire system.

I doubt it has gelled yet, but depending on if the fuel you bought is treated or not, or if their is water or mositure in it... you could be pushing it?

Can even double dose with additive with no ill-effects.

How long has it been since you last filled? If you have run a tank through within the last month, you have the winter blended fuel already most likely.

The fuel suppliers to the area should treat for "gelling". "Gelling" has nothing to do with moisture freezing. When fuel gels the parafin wax, candle wax, solidifies at colder temps. That is where "pour point and cloud point" come into play. You can check the fuel yourself. Take some fuel in a glass jar and put in a deep freeze. Leave it in there for awhile and see what you have. You will see little white specs of wax floating around. That is normal and if the fuel isn't so thick it won't flow then you are fine. As soon as the engine starts the fuel will warm up and the wax will melt. With an engine like a power stroke that moves alot of fuel , it melts quick. Water on the other will freeze. There is emulsified water in all fuel. Water seperator filters will catch it and hold it on the filter media. You can easily have a situation where it is cold enough to freeze the water on the filter media but the fuel is still warm enough not to wax up. If you have a fuel filter that is away from the ambient engine temp, it is a good idea to change it more often in the colder weather.

There is also a common problem with later model engines where the fuel gets to hot. If you have Power stroke for example, when you remove the filter and you may see a black soot in the filter base. That is from excessive fuel temp. Alot of road tractors have fuel coolers on them to help stop this. Even though they have big tanks, alot of guys run low on fuel to cut gross truck weight. I have had guys that are Owner Operators tell me that they put coolers on their pick-ups and are getting better fuel milage during the summer months. They bypass them during the winter.


Marry Xmas

Opps, double post.

here's the scoop. I probably drove the truck 2 weeks ago. Haven't filled it for over a month. Last time I filled it though i put a whole crapload of diesel-kleen in, however diesel kleen alone isn't an anti-gel agent, just a lubrication/cetane booster right? I have the other power services crap for anti-gelling, but i haven't gotten to putting it in the tank. I also have a 1/2 tank and don't really feel the need to fill the truck since I drive it oh...once a month at that? If I put it in, drive the truck around will that be ok? If i have fuel gelling, is it ok to start up? What kind of damages can I cause? I don't want to take the risk if im at that point.

Thanks Again,
Al

It depends which diesel Kleen you use, some is antigel, some is not, but both help. Gelling is exactly that, the fuel becomes a gel, like Jello. It will not flow, so what happens is you essentally run out of fuel. If it has gelled in the fuel lines, the only way to get it to clear is to heat them up. If you are concerned about it gelling while sitting, and causing damage, don't. It will erliquify when the air temp comes back up. It usually isn't a problem until about 10 degrees F. If you don't need to run it while it is really cold, don't, and then when it warms up again, there will be no issues. If you want to run it while it is so cold is when it is an issue.

thank you! thats exactly the answer I wanted to hear. I just didn't want my tank and fuel likes turning into a can of sterno and staying that way until I dropped the tank and somehow cleaned it out. So basically if it "gels" it will ungel on its own....sweet!

Thanks Much!
-Al Conforti

With a 1/2 bottle of DK anti-gel, and a full tank of #2, temps dropped down to -25F overnight and rose to a balmy -20 F during the day. I had no gelling. The anti-gel really did a good job.

Antigel DK is in a white bottle. The grey bottle does not have antigel.

If most of your fuel is less then 2 Mo's old, you have winter fuel & don't need to worry about it. As stated, if it does gel up, just wait till temps get back above 0 and you'll be fine.

dont really need to worry about fuel binding up until it starts getting down around zero F.

Thats a big assumption and I would disagree. That is no way of knowing if fuel is winterized unless a fuel station or truck stop starts to advertise it to attract business?

As well, who knows how well they treated it.. some is a blend of #1D and #2D and my local station actually adds Powerservice to their underground tanks when the tanker truck unloads.

I still add my own as more will not hurt anything and who knows if they added the right amount (if any) of the additive at the refinery or when delivered.

High volume truck stops here in KC have not started to promote "winterized fuel" and when asked...the guy behind the counter did not know.... so I assume it is not.

Making a wrong assumption can cause one to have a gelled system and in need of a tow.... so I trust noone except myself when it comes to adding and using anti-gel in the winter!!!!

They have had it since the beginning of Oct. at the latest. All the refiners had switched over by then to supply the heavy truck market. You can't have trucks buying fuel in FL & gelling up when they get to MN to deliver...

SAd thing is, that does happen still... the mix apparently is not strong enough, done more than a few gell service calls when I was working in South Dakota... drag them into the shop, warm it up, add antigel, and off they go... Now the stations in the colder regions generally start with winter blend mid October. If they didn't it would open them up to unhappy customers, and potentially lawsuits since it isn't like you have the choice of grade... I know in Iowa, it is pretty much a standard to go winter blend mid October, and I doubt that is isolated... It still can gel, unless it is straight #1 though, if it gets cold enough.

Have there been cases of fuel gelling? Yes.
Have there been cases of fuel gelling in Dec. Yes
Have there been cases of fuel gelling in Dec. when temps were at or above 30 deg? None that I know of.
What are the chances of gelling being his problem?
VERY slim.
MY truck started with NO gelling today and the temps have been below freezing for 4 FULL days here in MI with lows in the single digits.Last time truck was fueled was 7/14/06. I put in 23.655 Gals, that cost $70.00 from Pilot in Ottaw Lake, MI. I had 368665.8 miles on it then and got 18.33 MPG that tankfull. Then I retired the truck, and started useing my Expedition for work. Truck is loaded with firewood now.Sittin at my back door.

P.S. I never use ANY additives.

How lame.....

Guys... diesel fuel gels at different temps for different reasons.

1) The grade or type of diesel #1D or #2D?

2) How well does the station or refiner blend (50/50 mix of 1D & 2D)?

3) How well does the station add (if any) of an anti-gel treatment?

4) Here in KC, they do not start selling winterized fuel until the end of November or mid-December (and this depends on the size and volume of the station).

5) Gas in the lower states is not blended or winterized and no need too. The driver adds his own additives depending on where he is driving. Just to say that all diesel is "winterized" in every state is just an assumption... becuase my local station was not until the end of November!!!

6) Some trucks have recirculating fuel pumps/filters that help keep the fuel filter warm (as it does on at least my '03). I know that Ford got away from the "fuel heater" function at some point on these motors... but I still have it on my '03... but if I get a new HFCM housing... I loose it under the revised part and TSB.

7) Also depends on the water/moisture content that may be present in the fuel
-----------------------

Due to the above, no two drivers experience the same issues at the same temps due to different motors, fuels, additives, blending and the rate at which it was blended.

Fuel will not gel at that high of temp, that much is obvious... it is closer to 0 that it becomes an issue. I don't recall what temp #2 starts to give trouble at, but nowhere close to 30 degrees F.
He didn't state he had a PROBLEM, was simply asking what would happen IF it gelled... and what exactly it meant. I don't generally add antigel either, but don't run my truck every day either. Have I ever had an issue with gelling on my truck? No. The stations in my area are usually on top of it for a service to the customers. Have I had a diesel engine gel? Damn right, farm tractors, with the fuel lines exposed, running straight #2. Payloader, running straight #2, bosses doing, gelled up BAD in Feb in South Dakota. He had the bright idea of running #2 since we had a nice warm week. It turned way cold the next week, with the #2 still in it, about 3/4 of a tank, talk about a mess to deal with when you don't have a heated shop. My tractor had #1 in it, because I was smarter than that, and I had the only running tractor on the place as a result... Had he even simply put in antigel to be sure, it would have been ok, but he didn't.

LEADER,

Lets start over... not all diesel fuel is winterized accross the USA. It depends on the market. Due to the extra cost of adding #1D or additives to #2D, why would they do it in the Southern states... they don't!!

Here is a link:

http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM..._Fuels_FAQ.asp

What should I do in the winter to adjust for the cold temperatures?
We recommend that you purchase a diesel fuel that has been winterized for your area by mixing it with Diesel Fuel No. 1 or low-temperature fluidity improver additives. Non-winterized diesel fuel will not generally cause problems as long as temperatures are at or above 10°F. The addition of about 15% to 20% Diesel Fuel No. 1 to Diesel Fuel No. 2 will reduce the cloud point of the fuel by about 5°F.

We offer winterized product in a majority of markets that experience severe weather conditions. If temperatures fall well below norms for the local area or you will be driving much farther north, additional Diesel Fuel No. 1 blending is recommended.


http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-3.html
Winterized -Diesel fuel number 2 loses its ability to flow at temperatures below 20F (-7C.). This is caused by wax separation, and is commonly termed "gelling". The thicker wax component of the fuel may be blocked by the fuel filter although it can flow through the larger diameter fuel lines. Most fuel companies "winterize" the fuel sold during winter months in cold climates. This winterized fuel resists gelling at low temperatures. The winterized fuel does not provide the same level of performance as the summer fuel, so your mileage will likely drop while using it. Be aware that the refueling range may permit travel from a warm climate to an extremely cold one on one tank of fuel. It is recommended to fill up with winterized fuel before stopping the engine for a long time in a cold environment.

Under warm conditions diesel behaves much like gasoline, i.e. it appears as a liquid, stinks, but is heavier and less volatile. As its temperature drops some of its less desirable properties become apparent. Diesel fuel consists of many different hydrocarbon molecules of varying characteristics, and of special interest is the temperature some solidify and become wax. The appearance of wax crystals is called "clouding", and the temperature at which this happens in a particular blend is referred to as "the cloud point".

Oil companies adjust the cloud point to suit the various climatic conditions in different locations and the time of the year. The same brand name may be different in Maine from the product sold in New York and in Florida. Lowering of the cloud point is generally done by addition of heavier (higher boiling range) components (Napthalenes and aromatics) and other additives, but this also reduces fuel energy and consequently mileage suffers. Winter fuel is less economical and lighter than heavier summer fuel. As the temperature drops further, some hydrocarbons continue to remain liquid, but others form wax. The net result of very low temperatures (-50F?) is that what was liquid fuel at +50F can resemble a thick gel.

http://www.citgo.com/Products/FuelGasoline/Diesel.jsp
Even CITGO states... "Winterized Diesel" in certain areas (does not state all areas).

As you can see... winterized diesel is not the same everywhere or even sold everywhere. There is no need for it in Southern States and no need for the extra money of #1D or additives if the cold temps are not seen in that region. The retailer does not know or care if a driver is going Northbound or SOuthbound... just as long as their pumps do not gell-up.

And yes... I do drive to many different states and do fill up with winterized and non-winterized diesel. Instead of making assumptions, post articles and links that prove YOUR point... as in "all diesel sold from mid-October to whenever" is winterized... even in FL, CA,TX and the like". Good luck, you won't because it isn't... but I am all for you proving your point/assumption.

Just filled up today here in Kansas City at the local Quick-Trip truck stop. They operate at least 4 truck-stops that I know of and at least have 6 - 8 diesel lanes (so they are high volume and know their stuff).

More to the point.... their diesel is NOT winterized. They buy good ol' #2D and only add additves to the tank when the temps start getting around 0F and below for extended periods of time. They no longer have a "winterized fuel lane" and do not pay for "all winterized".

For the record.. this was from the Quick-Trip truck stop in Platte City, MO and she confirmed that all of them here in KC operatew the same way.

So.... the assumption that all fuel as of mid-October or so is winterized... is just foolish, is an assumption and can cause problems for some... hence the reason some of add anti-gel to every tank so we do not have to worry about it... or if the right amount of additives was put in by the station.

I love a good post where people post "assumptions as a fact" that can be so easily rebuked and proven wrong... so I guess it is not how many miles you drive or what states you drive in (as you posted in one of your posts above)... but doing some research, asking questions and just using good ol' common sense.

Not trying to flame you in any way or call you out... but you were the one that called me out by posting all the states you drive in and that even the "warm weather states" use winterized fuel.

I have been working on diesel equipment for 20 years and I have never seen anybody or fuel company that, according to their propaganda, agree on a cloudpoint for diesel fuel. Winterized or not. The closest thing that I was ever told was that the crude oil that the fuel came from will determine the cloudpoint. That can vary from what part of the world it came from. It's not all the same.

The other night it was 6 degrees here,windchill was 0. I was working late and I started a tractor and jumped a truck that I was bringing in the shop to strip the frame down. Funny thing was that the truck hadn't had fuel put in it since July, the tractor hadn't had fuel put in it since Aug. when I finished bush hogging with it for the year. By what most "things" say I should have had jello. I didn't. It is rare that you have a waxing problem unless you are in a very cold climate. I don't use additives because I haven't ever had a problem with waxing and I don't know what the suppliers have used because I don't think they know. It's been proven in test cells at Cat and Cummins that to much of any additive can be damaging to an engine. I have been to failure analysis seminars and have seen evidence and I see it every winter. It's simple economics. The additives companies tell you to use as much as they know you can use without risking the liability of a person sueing them for siezed injectors. If they knew there wouldn't be a problem with having every dose increased by one ounce they would. They want to sell their product. I don't mined additive in my fuel but I don't fuel in my additive.

My fuel supplier for the farm told me they ALWAYS put in antigell and winterizer year round to eliminate problems for their customers. Which I appreciate when I use a combine in very cold weather and the fuel I received was in the early fall.

For cloud point from chevron specs go to : http://www.chevron.com/products/prod..._Exchange.shtm

New Ford Gelled up
 

I have a 2006 Ford F250 SuperDuty. It was running fine, plugged in everynight, has antigel added in, but still gelled up. How can I ungel the truck so that I may drive it. Other than taking it to the ford dealer and paying for it to be ungelled? My husband is taking my vehicle to work and I cannot get around right now. It has been -20 to 0 all week. Just broke 5 today.

Keep it plugged in and get a bottle of a product called Diesel-911. It comes in a red bottle, and it's the best product for gelled fuel I have found.

so even if it is already gelled this will ungel it?

Getting the truck in a warm garage will also ungell the fuel as well. It will take time and the filters may/will have to be replaced as they "clogged up" with the gelled fuel.

The Powerservice "911" formula in the red bottle, has alcohol and other "stuff" in it which is not to be used on a continous basis, but is designed for gelled motors/fuel that need to be ungelled!!!

1) Get truck into garage

2) Use space heater to warm garage

3) Replace fuel filters (some will free up after being warmed up.

4) Add fuel additives to try and liquify the fuel and prevent more gelling.

5) Fill up tank to reduce condensation in tank

how would you go about it if there is no garage available...

1) You may have too tow to a garage or dealer (or someone that has on).

2) The tank may have gelled up and/or just the fuel filters (2 of them) and these may have to be replaced... but it is very cold to be laying on the ground to work on it!!!

3) Adding "anti-gel" will not liquify already gelled fuel... but only products designed and labled as such will work and must be added to the fuel filters and tank and let to sit for a bit to work its magic... and even them... getting the truck warm in a garage makes it quicker and easier.


You may be looking at a tow to a service garage or dealer to see if it will 'ungell" on its own. Maybe they will just let it sit in a corner for 1/2 day and not charge you... or they could change the filters for you?

What brand of fuel additives were you using (as you stated above) and how much of it in your tank? Fuel additives only work down to a certain temp and sometimes more has to be added to get better (lower) coverage/protection.

If it's completely gelled and will not run at all, get a clean fuel filter, that may be where it is gelled, put a bit of 911 in the filter housing with the new filter, put the rest of the bottle in the tank, and cycle the ignition key a few times to pump some fuel. That should get you going.

When it gets that cold, it's a good idea to keep a bottle of 911 with you, you can add some as soon as the gel symptoms start and save a lot of headaches.

Here is what you need.... (PowerService 911)... with directions and links...

http://www.powerservice.com/diesel_911Winter_app.asp

My husband put in Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat...it says no gelling guaranteed...

Unfortuneatly, the guarentee is only when you pre-register and by 6 bottles and send in your receipt. They gear their "offer" as does Powerservice to the "big rig" drivers and not pick-up drivers like us.

How much did he add to the tank... and as the temps get below 0F and then some... more is always better than less!!!!

I double dose and have used Howes too.

I add 1:1 (1oz and sometimes 2 - 3) to every gallon of fuel.... heck I just dump it in... but then again... the coldest it has been here in KC is 10F.

I am not sure in oz. he said that he doubled it since it is a brand new truck under 6000 miles on it..about 1/3 or so of the bottle is gone...i just wonder since the wind chill has been about -30 here if that might add to the problems we have been having...how much does the 911 stuff usually run?

I think he did not add enough additive. 1/3 of a bottle is only 32oz which would treat 1 tank of fuel down to 0F (if I remember the bottle the last time I used it). For temps below 0F, I think you double it... so at a minimum when it gets ultra cold, I would have used at least 1/2 bottle if you have the standard 27 gallon or so fuel tank. More is better than less and will not hurt anything.

As far as cost of the "911"... you will have to call around or look at PowerService's website and have them link you with a local retailer or truckstop. Walmart sells their other products, but not sure about the "911" bottle of additive???

If you have access to such, you can throw tarps over the truck, and get a space heater, the torpedo type, or some kind of heater that has high output that would heat the garage enough to work in, and blow that under the truck to get it warmed up. I agree, change the filters fill with the power service or equivalent, instead of diesel, and keep the motor plugged in.