5.9L V8 vs 5.4L V8
 

I am looking for a new(er) truck, more specifically either a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 or a 2002 Ford Super Duty F250 Super Cab. Both has an auto tranny.

I really like the above 01 Dodge 2500 4x4 I recently test drove, and I am going tomorrow to test drive the 02 Ford SD 4x4.

I have found both vehicles with the V8 engine, and am unsure which route to take. Both are extremely nice trucks.

Comparo:
Ford: 5.4L V8 330 cid
Dodge: 5.9L V8 360 cid

HP:
Ford: 260 hp@4500 rpms
Dodge: 245 hp@4000 rpms

TORQUE:
Ford: 350 tq@2500 rpms
Dodge: 330 tq@3250 rpms

BORE & STROKE
Ford: 90.215x105.8 mm
Dodge: 101.6x90.9 mm

COMPRESSION:
Ford: 9.0:1
Dodge: 9.1:1

OIL CAPACITY:
Ford: 6 quarts w/ filter
Dodge: 5 quarts w/ filter

The smaller oil capacity on the larger CID Dodge engine kinds of makes me question the Dodge choice. My 3.9L V6 Dakota took 6 quarts, and I loved how the truck ran so cool, even on HOT days towing. Will the smaller oil capacity present a cooling issue? Then again, is 30 CID that much larger??

Both are relatively similar engines 'technically/statistically'. Similar compression, close CID, close hp/tq at similar RPM ranges. The Ford does seem to develop the highest tq rating at a lower rpm though, about 750 rpms less.

Any info or advice?

the 360 IMHO is a terd in a big truck like that kinda underpowered and could use some improvement. also the dodges trannies arent known to hold up to abuse very well. i think u'd be better off w/ the ford, and im not just sayin it cuz im a ford nut.

The 5.4 is also a turd in a 250. Go with the time tested pushrod 360.

I just spoke with a contractor that rents catapiller equipment. He has a 2000 F250 with the 5.4. I asked him how he liked that engine in the F250. He told me that it was excellent! It has 185,000+ miles and he tows a 10,000lb trailer everyday and had never had a problem towing, even with the bed loaded.

Dodges 360 is a DOG! old push rod crap. Go with the FORD!

Old push-rod crap? Are you nuts?

I'll tell you what, I'm a Ford man...but the Dodge 360 will stomp a Ford V8 into the ground. Period. When it comes to low-end torque and shear power, you can't beat a push-rod design. If you were going to buy a truck strictly based on the engine , the Dodge 360 would win EASILY. However, it is true that the Dodge auto. tranny will not be as reliable. So for an overall combination, go with the Ford if you plan to keep it a while.

Fact is the new 5.4L makes more torque at a lower RPM than the 360. Don't get me wrong. I think the mopar small blocks were all great engines. I never liked anything they put the 360 in though. Back in the day the 318 seemed to be the torquiest engine in the 300 cubic inch range by a long shot. Times have changed.

I really dont like Dodges Front axle with the vacuum center disconnect. When it fails you will have no 4X4. I would rather have lockouts IMO. Leaf springs are also nice because there are alot less parts to wear out. The dodges have 4 links that can get loose after awhile. The Fords are cheaper to lift also.

i think i remember reading the 300 I6 out torques the 318 for a while in the 80s...

True, the Dodge CAD (central axle disconnect) aka 'center vacuum disconnect' might pose a slight problem, if it were to fail. As with any 4WD system, though. However, if need be, for $200 you can install a bulletproof actuating system from 4x4 Posi-Lock.

I have never heard of the CAD failing, but as with anything it might.

The thing I dont carre for with Ford's 4WD system is the 4WD 'dash dial' for activating 4WD. How many wires are hooked up to this system along with relays and fuses.

Which 4WD system is more prone to breakage, trail related damage, and mechanical failures.............I say the 4WD system that uses electicity to engage the front axle, not the vacuum actuated one.

Just my opinion though.

I just would rather have a lever I pull on to engage 4WD HI/LO.

I'm don't know very much about the Dodge transmissions, but I think the 360 would definately put up with a lot more abuse than the 5.4. The 318 and 360 are old designs, and don't make the most hp and torque for their size, but will probably outlast most other engines out on the road today. I have a few friends with over 200,000 miles on both the 318 and 360. Also, just from looking at the forums, the 4.6 and 5.4 Modular V8's, seem to have many more problems (spark plugs popping out of heads, head gasket problems) than the 360. The 360 is a cast iron block and has cast iron heads, so to me that is probably a little less likely to crack or warp. Don't get me wrong, Ford makes excellent trucks, but I tend to favor the Mopar smallblocks. Good luck with your choice.

Just because they are old designs does not mean anything, we have a 97 chevy with a vortec 350. The 350 goes back, its a pretty old motor, but we spun a rod bearing, and we found out 3 other people around this area which have have low end problems, with normal maitnince ( oil and filter every 2000 mi, but its a chevy, what are you going to do ). I would go with the 5.4 for towing to the 360, what good is the torque at 3250 RPM? I do not know many people that drive around with their motor running 3200 RPM plus. The 5.4 would be a better pulling motor. The 5.4 has an extra quart of oil, which would keep the low end a lot cooler. The ford has a bigger stroke, i am a fan of low end motors. Usually an engine with a big stroke will have more low end torque, which applys to his needs. Ford matches a better transmission to their motors, one which can hold together, as where dodge has had some problems with transmissions latlely. I think i would stick with the ford, a better towing truck

First of all, my new Ranger has 47 more horsepower than my old one. But my old OHV 4.0 felt a LOT stronger than this one. So you can't just look at numbers on a sheet of paper and say "yeah, the 5.4 is torquier". That's horsecrap. I am still amazed everytime I drive my father's Dodge with the 360. So much power. To bad the auto. tranny is no good.

Second, GM trucks used a central axle disconnect in the front end, and mine failed on me during the winter in the middle of a snowstorm. It was not electronic, but still it failed. I had another truck, a Ford, that had a manual transfer case and manual locking hubs. It too failed at the hubs during the winter and did not work properly. So far, I have had NO trouble whatsoever out of my Rangers with electronic 4x4 systems. So the point is...there is nothing wrong with an electronic 4x4 system. You just have to maintain it properly.

Like I have said before about this constant feud about push rod and OHC.

The LP was excellent in it's day, now the CD is better. We used to have black and white TV but now we have color. Technology, it happens for a reason.

As far as longevity, the modular engine should well outlast and perform better longer than any pushrod engine. There are to may things to wear out in a push rod engine.

LONG LIVE THE MODULAR OHC ENGINES!!!

You're getting the 3/4 ton without a diesel? :-staun Oh well, I guess some people just don't
like them. Well, you should get the Ford anyways even
with a gas.:-staun Did I just say that? PSD lover forever!!!

Oh, so that's why the physical size of the OHC 4.0 grew to accomodate all those extra parts. Timing chains, cams, etc... Hmm... :rolleyes:

If this SOHC engine lasts 200K miles or more like the pushrod 4.0s did, I'll be surprised. Happy..but surprised. Anyway...back to the original post...

I have seen dozens of 5.4s at the lube rack with over 250,000 miles with no major problems and they still ran like new. Longevity of the the two engines would be about the same in my opinion.

If I were making the choice between these two trucks, I'd look at mileage, overall condition, history, asking price, option levels, etc. I think the reliability argument on pre-owned vehicles may come down more to how each has been used and maintained by the previous owners at this point. In my opinion, the Ford will have the better interior, the Dodge 360 is alot easier to service than the 5.4 (try changing the oil filter or spark plugs on the Ford), looks are subjective, and if the transmissions are maintained both should last. I don't know much about the 4wd capabilities, I've owned alot of trucks, but all 2wd. By the way, I bought a 2003 F150 with the 5.4, the automatic, and 3.55 limited slip rear and I'm really pleased with the acceleration. I looked at the Dodge, but I thought the interior on the Ford was much nicer (especially since mine is a King Ranch!), and the styling on the Dodge is too much for me!

The old 360's will NOT hang with the 5.4's. Not even before the 5.4's got the first hp bump to 260 hp. That's a fact. Comparably equipped trucks have been tested over and over and the 5.4 own the Dodge.

My son has a 2000 1500 4X4 dodge 360. When you drive his truck, it feels fast and powerfull. But, my Supercrew 5.4 will smoke his truck bad.
The 360's are reliable though, but so has my 5.4 so far.

Also, the gas mileage on the 360 is BAAAAAAAD!!!!:-X01

On my 97'Expy. with the 5.4, the oil filter is right behind the l front left side of the bumper, cant get much easier then that to change it ! The Expy now has 108 plus k on it and it runs great, sounds good, and I think the thing has some balls,, It will get up and go when ya kick it,,, and it is supposedly the 235 HP version ! It has way more power then the stock 302's I have driven (87' F-150),,very happy with the 5.4,,now changing the plugs,,that will be a challenge ! ,,,,,,,,,,,Later ,,,,,,,,,,Mark

M350- Check out a 2wd 2003 F150 for the oil filter location, it's above the front crossmember, with a wiring harness running underneath it, and a sharp sheet metal dribble tray below it. The filter is mounted horizontal, thus ensuring a big mess when removing it. Not one of Ford's better ideas!

To me, the High Torque of 350 @2500 makes the best sense. That is an RPM that most "normal" people drive at. No one drives while towing at 3250 rpm. If you are towing....go with the FORD.

I just sold a 99 Dodge 318 4x4 60,000 miles -great truck
8.5 mpg pulling 3500# trailer. (engine to small and 3.55 gears)
318 & 360 are great engines. It those trannys that you need to stay away from.
I just bought a new 2003 250 4x4 with the 5.4.
Pulls great and 10 mpg with only 350 miles on it.
Get the 5.4 better pulling- better mpg. better trans.
resale is also better.
My new ford is a great truck.
Also my 98 expi has 60,000 miles and that modular engine is running fine....

The mileage on the 360 is terrible. The old 230 HP 360 got better mileage and had more down-low torque. They took the Chevy trick and increased power, but higher up in the RPM band. If you want to see what I mean, drive a 95 Ram and then compare it to a 99-2002 Ram with the 360. My 95 regular cab 4x4 had so much low end torque that I could smoke the tires all the way down the street. It also got 18MPG. My 2000 quad cab 4x4 had 15 more horsepower, but seemed to have much less low end grunt, and it got 11 MPG. I now own a Ford.

My advice: go with the FORD.

lawnservice, the 318 can't hold a candle when towing compared to the 360. I worked at a marina and the manager owned an extended cab 99 dodge ram with the 318, we tried towing a 21 foot boat but the thing had no power whatsoever going up even the smallest of hills. When we went to pick the boat up we used my dads extended cab, 97 ram with the 360 and it towed it no problem and never required the full throttle to get up the hills that the 318 did.

As for the 5.4, I've only driven one in an expedition and it had some great power, never towed, but I'd say mileage wise and power wise, the 5.4 is the choice by the numbers. Drive them both, bring something to toss in the back if you must and then drive them again. Why is it that a family looking at minivans can bring 6 children, 2 cousins, teh family dog, and themselves to test drive a new car or minivan, but we can't bring a small trailer or some type of load to toss in the bed of a truck to test out the capabilities of it?

while the numbers say no, In my "seat of the pants" evaluations, the 360 feels stronger the the 5.4 at all rpm's.

I have one of each in my drive way for a few more days anyway. I am returning a 2000 Durango w/5.9 (lease over) and we just bought a 2000 EB Expy. The Durango is 2wd and the Expy 4wd but I have to agree with the last guy, the 5.9 does seem stronger by the seat of the pants. Unfortunately Dodge does not make a very good auto tranny to go with it, because we had a new valve body in it at 10K miles and it still shifts like crap compared to the Expy. The Expy has 60K and the Durango has 42K, the Expy gets the same mileage so far and it is much bigger inside, as well as being 800 to 1000 lbs. heavier so you do the math. Like was said several times in this thread, if you are towing I would go with the 5.4, it may not feel as strong but the tranny is much better.

the 5.4 is a good engine but if it were up to me i would go powerstroke

hey i was in the ford 3vtriton vs hemi forum, and i typed this article from a magazine where they tested the dodge 5.9, ford 5.4, chevy 5.3 and toyota 4.7.... so i figured u could use some of these numbers.... these numbres are takan from a paxton dyno At the wheels.. ford has higher power than the rest... even low rpm's... maybe u can use these numbers in choosing ur truck...

----- Maximum Horsepower/Torque @ wheels -----
ford 5.4 2v - 186.0@4250/249.6@3500
dodge 5.9 - 160.4@4250/219.0@3500

----- @1000rpm @ wheels HP/TQ-----
ford 5.4 2v - 21.9/85.7
dodge 5.9 - 5.9/20.7
----- @ 2000rpm HP/TQ ------
ford 5.4 2v - 101.8/234.6
dodge 5.9 - 54.0/147.0
----- @ 3000rpm HP/TQ ------
ford 5.4 2v - 137.6/248.7
dodge 5.9 - 115.2/201.9
----- @ 4000rpm HP/TQ ------
ford 5.4 2v - 178.2/237.8
dodge 5.9 - 155.3/206.2
----- @ 5000rpm HP/TQ ------
ford 5.4 2v - 183.5/206.9
dodge 5.9 - 142.5/152.3

its pretty crazy all the loses thru the drivetrain in this test.. it was done in October 1999 by Truck Trend magazine.. the manufacturers claimed Ford - 260hp/345ft-lb, and dodge - 245hp/335ft-lb. but theres huge differances between the chevy and toyota drivetrains.. the chevy 5.3 rated 270hp only made 173.1hp @ the wheels.. thats like a 97hp loss through drivetrain.. ford lost roughly only 11hp.. ford made more power at the wheels than any of the other manufacturers at all rpm's... then toyota was 2nd with its dohc 4.7... so it seems to prove the theory that ohv makes better low end power wrong... oh and the towing.. im sure u can use this too.. i know ull never race while towing.. but these numbers show how ford does towing.. ford wasnt the fastest unloaded, toyota was.. but loaded ford was the fastest, not by alot.. but it was fastest, so it'll do better towing than the other 3 trucks..

0-60mph unloaded/loaded
ford 5.4 2v - 8.1/9.4
dodge 5.9 - 8.5/10.1
chevy 5.3 - 8.4/9.9
toyota 4.7 - 7.9/9.8

1/4mile unloaded/loaded
ford 5.4 2v - 16.2@84.8/17.0@80.1
dodge 5.9 - 16.5@83.4/17.5@79.0
chevy 5.3 - 16.4@79.7/17.3@79.7
toyota 4.7 - 16.1@85.2/17.3@79.9

well i hope you can use all that info.. i hope you pick the right truck... good luck.. c ya

FordF10054,

Where can I find the whole article? Can you point me in the right direction.

Thanks

99 Expy XLT 5.4

I think nothing is particularly horrible about the 360. It's the auto trannies that really give Dodge trucks in general a bad name. Stay away from the 46re auto. The 2500 I believe comes with the 47re auto which is stronger, but the 2500 also has the option of a stick, which the 1500 does not. Personally I would never buy one because of the issues with the 46re, because they get horrible mileage, and because they're very underpowered for their size. Though by the time I can actually afford a fullsize pickup I'll probably be looking only at diesels

well i keep all my magazines. ive been getting motor trend, road and track, car and driver, autoweek, truck trend, hot rod, and ocassionally i pick up sport truck, truckin, and muscle mustang and fast fords magazines.. ive been getting all these over the years, i keep them all for reference, believe it ot not i still go back and get info from them all. the info i gave earlier were from the October 1999 Issue of Truck Trend magazine. the article was called "America's Best Pickup" "Toyota's new tundra takes on the big three" and can be found on page 22. comparison info's on pg 28. tests were done on Paxton Automotive dyno.

Very interesting. I thought the new automatics were pretty effiecent? I can see losing 30-40HP but not 97!

my dad has a 97 f150 and ithas the 5.4 4x4. got 60,000 + mles andrnning fine. we tractor pull an he pulls 5000 pounds back there and you ca tell itsback there.we also lawnmower pull bout 3 times month we pull the lawnsmowers and give that truck heck pullingso much but still no problems

cds,
The comparison between the Durango and the Expy is like comparing apples to orangatuns. There is no comparison. The Expy probably weighs about 2000 pounds more than the Durango. How about throwing 4000 pounds on the Durango and give the Expy the advantage and then see what feels snappier.

Well the numbers say the Ford 5.4 will definately out do the Dodge 5.9. As it produces it's strongest power in the rpm ranges most used by someone who hauls and tows. Moving back to the transmission, the Ford automatic is better all around hands down. But if you throw a 5 or 6 speed manual behind the Dodge or Ford engine, I would venture to say they are pretty even. What makes a truck pull or not pull is all in how it is geared. A truck with 3.55s will certainly not pull as good as a truck with 4.10s. Simple as that. I personally like the 5.4 Ford engine, they turn on quick and make lots of power on the bottom end where it's needed most. The 360 does also, just not as much. I like Mopar small blocks, the best ever made was the 318 they made good power and run for a long time. It was a mistake on Dodge's part to discontinue the 318, it was a damn good motor!

I agree, I said in my post that the Expy out weighs the Durango by a good 800 to 1000 lbs. According to truck trend in the road test review section an Expy similar to mine has a curb weight of 5447 and a Durango R/T 4wd weighs 4737 so I figure the 4wd adds 400 lbs or so. They both have 3.55 LS rearends, so they are as equal as they can be, I guess. I have not drag raced them ( because it is illegal of course) but to me the Durango feels faster.
Don't get me wrong I love my Expy, that is why the Durango is not going to stay. Dan

It would only make sense that the Durango would be quicker, it's over 700 lbs lighter than the Ford. Even with the same gearing the lighter vehicle will aways have the advantage as far as speed and acceleration goes. I have never been a big fan of the Durango personally. I live in Michigan where on a quiet night you can hear the vehicles rust. Every Durango and many other Dodge vehicles, including my Mothers 2000 Grand Caravan AWD have traces of rust breaking out on them. Then again every Chrysler product I have ever seen has had some kind of body rust problem. But hey they all have their problems: Fords famous Twin Traction Beam 4wd front ends have an appetite for tires. The 73-87 Chevy/GMC pickups and other trucks have frames that have a tendency to crack around the steering box and spring mounts. Dodge has crummy automatic trannies and bodies that rust a little faster than others. But Americans seem to be able to live with these problems and stay loyal to the brands they prefer. None of em are perfect!

If I was going to plan on towing I would not even consider an Automatic. Manual transmisions are the only way to go. They save wear and tear on your truck by holding better on the hills. In my expierience they hold up much better In 10 trucks with several hundred thowsand miles on each one we have NEVER lost a manual trany. Even when one of the hired hands ran one a few hundred miles with no oil (some things are out of our control) During the same period of time I have lost tract of how many Autos have bitten the dust ?5-7 I think?
I guess I am weird. I always hit 3000+ rpm in each gear whil towing. And that is in a 7.3 l diesel that redlines at like 3500. It has been driven this way for the last 215,000 miles and is still running strong. I think that people who lug there engines at low rpm while towing are asking for trouble. These engines are designed to rev so let them.



Anyhow my 2 cents

My brother-in-law just traded his 98 dodge 1/2 ton 4x4 360 that had 60k on it......for a 00 F-250 Super Duty with the 5.4L....the SD gets 14 compared to the 9 the dodge got, not to mention how much heavier the SD is, or how much more it can tow.

The 360 Dodge is a dog compared to his F250.