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-   -   TTB Swap - What are my options? (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1330754-ttb-swap-what-are-my-options.html)

Ace_of_Spades 08-15-2014 03:45 PM

TTB Swap - What are my options?
 
Was wondering what the options and better choices are in swapping out the front end on my '89 F-250 are. Replacing the bushings and everything else has not helped this tired front end and I would like to try something different. Is there a site or group of videos that goes into detail on the how-to that someone could point me to? I do use my truck mainly for "truck work" and not much for fun, but would like to keep it versatile. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

NotEnoughTrucks2014 08-15-2014 04:55 PM

How much money have you got? Pretty much the limiting factor.

I'll presume you are talking SAS. D60 from an F350 would be the best bet. Keep the ratios the same, or change rear diff to match.

Diesel_Brad 08-15-2014 05:08 PM

A VERY simple bolt in swap is a Dana 60 from a 85.5-97 F350

In order to do the swap correctly, you will need the following
(can't believe I am typing this out AGAIN, we REALLY need a sticky for this)

The axle itself
3 variations will work(all from F350s)
A. 85.5-91 Dana 60. It has king pins and pin on calipers
B. 92-94 Dana 60. It has ball joints and Pin on calipers
C. 95-97 Dana 60. it has vll joints and Bolt on calipers. Also has 1/2" bigger brakes.
There were 2 gear ratio options thru the years. 4,01 and 3.55. So you need to know what you have.

Front driveshaft(SOME have found this is not necessary)
f350s used a Double joint at the t-case end(cardian joint) This was to help with the added angle from the added F250 height(2") and the sorter distance(dana 60 has a longer pinion).
To go with the F350 shaft you also need the F350 yoke from the front of the t-case. There were (2) t-cases offered the 1356(80s-95) and the 4407(96/97).
You will need the yoke from the 1356. The 1356 and 4407 yoke are NOT interchangeable)

Track bar mount(mounts on engine crossmember using existing holes)

Track bar(goes between axle and mount to keep axle centered)

F350 leaf springs
You want F350 springs and NOT F250 springs because the TTB springs have a MUCH high spring rate due to they have to follow the arch of the TTB and the F350 springs just basically go up and down. There are 2 versions of the F350 spring. Big block/ diesel and Small block

Drivers side U-bolt plate and u-bolts
This is a a cast pice that goes under the axle and partially around the pumpkin to allow the unbolts to go over the springs and clamp them to the axle. this is an OBSOLETE part and no one makes them. You want NEW u-bolts they are stretch to yield an are not designed to be reused.

F350 pitman arm
It is just a TOUCH longer tun theF250 but allows the tires to turn all the way. You can retain the F250 one but steering radius will be terrible. This is an OBSOLETE part and last I heard the aftermarket was runny VERY short on supply)

Steering linkage
You need F350 linkage, F250 stuff will NOT WORK

Brake calipers
You need the correct ones of the axle
Follow the year range of the axle(above)
F250s used the same style per year as the f350

For the rear, you will want the F350(4") blocks and new U-bolts
F250s use 2" blocks


it would be wise no matter what axle you get, to go thru it and repair and worn parts(ball joints, king pins, seals, u-joints, etc)

Blue Rebel 08-15-2014 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel_Brad (Post 14585849)
F350 pitman arm
It is just a TOUCH longer tun theF250 but allows the tires to turn all the way. You can retain the F250 one but steering radius will be terrible. This is an OBSOLETE part and last I heard the aftermarket was runny VERY short on supply)

Dunno how true this is any more, when i did my axle swap at the end of last winter, I had to buy a new f350 pitman arm, and it was no problem getting a new one from the local o'reilly auto parts.

jasoncarpenter1 08-15-2014 07:37 PM

I agree sticky it.

Diesel_Brad 08-15-2014 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Rebel (Post 14585954)
Dunno how true this is any more, when i did my axle swap at the end of last winter, I had to buy a new f350 pitman arm, and it was no problem getting a new one from the local o'reilly auto parts.

What brand did you get?

I know Moog was getting sparse

BruteFord 08-15-2014 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_of_Spades (Post 14585625)
Was wondering what the options and better choices are in swapping out the front end on my '89 F-250 are. Replacing the bushings and everything else has not helped this tired front end and I would like to try something different. Is there a site or group of videos that goes into detail on the how-to that someone could point me to? I do use my truck mainly for "truck work" and not much for fun, but would like to keep it versatile. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

For starters what's wrong with what ya got?

If using the ruck for "truck work" a SAS will make it taller.

Blue Rebel 08-15-2014 09:41 PM

it was actually their in-house, Masterpro brand

BigSix1 08-16-2014 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_of_Spades View Post
Was wondering what the options and better choices are in swapping out the front end on my '89 F-250 are. Replacing the bushings and everything else has not helped this tired front end and I would like to try something different. Is there a site or group of videos that goes into detail on the how-to that someone could point me to? I do use my truck mainly for "truck work" and not much for fun, but would like to keep it versatile. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Quote:

Originally Posted by BruteFord (Post 14586541)
For starters what's wrong with what ya got?

If using the ruck for "truck work" a SAS will make it taller.

That is exactly what I was thinking, BruteFord.

And not to take a THING away from Diesel_Brad's "How To," which should DEFINITELY be a "Sticky," if anything should, but I do NOT understand this (frequently-expressed) sentiment that the TTB front end is a bad thing. (So, I'm not trying to "pick on" you, Ace_of_Spades..., because I see this a lot).

Ever hit a curb, under heavy braking, with just ONE SIDE of the truck (no less!) going at least 20-25mph, when "Young, Dumb and Full of...(well, you know the rest)." :( I did, with my little, 2x4, Shorty '72 F-100. WHAMB! (And believe me, your head will almost hit the headliner! I'm lucky, because I think my [shorter] passenger almost did hit her head--I hit on the passenger's side. And IIRC, we were wearing the lap belts--no shoulder belts on a '72--at least, not on my '72 "stripper" F-100).

The truck JUMPED the curb, ended up sitting with two wheels on the road, two wheels on the sidewalk), and it didn't get knocked out of alignment AT ALL. (I had purchased the truck as a total loss, "unwrecked it" and restored it, with much help from my Dad, and had the TTB alignment done by an expert, just once--PRIOR to my "Curb Stunt," and I still have the truck, 30+ years later--with the same alignment-job). :)

This (locally) well-known front end alignment shop expert, while sitting down in a PIT (remember those?), used a foot-controlled, "air over hydraulic" bottle-jack, to literally BEND the TTB arms, precisely, just enough to get it into spec.--after I had bought it (wrecked), restored it, again, before I pulled my "curb stunt."

Side Bar: "Do Not Bend"? I noticed on a '95 F150, recently, that it says, right on the TTB: "Do Not Bend," IIRC. :-X04 Perhaps Diesel_Brad could explain why that is? (I'm not located where I can see if this is also cast into the TTB of the '72 F-100).

And later on, I drove my $500., 1988 F-150 2x4, 4.9, RCLB, for 10 YEARS, on the same alignment I had done when I first got it (expensive--a ball joint and alignment cost me like $345., on my $500. truck, which freaked me, at the time--LOL). But over 10 YEARS, I had ZERO issues with the TTB, in terms of abnormal tire wear, pulling, wheel centering, etc.... And it rode great.

And I never did anything except grease these front ends.

I believe the "Rock Crawler Crowd" likes the SAS, for their extreme duty, but for the DD, or (NICE-riding, relatively-speaking) WORK TRUCK, I can't understand why one would want to do a SAS.

Re: heavier trucks, the TTB in my "'96/'97" 4x4, F-250 H.D. SCLB was one thing I never had a complaint about and, possibly because of the longer wheelbase, that truck, despite being a 4x4, rode as well as my lighter, F150 2x4, which is to say, it rode, tracked and drove GREAT, and comfortably, at 125,000+ miles.

Ace_of_Spades, may I ask, what, exactly, is not to your satisfaction with, as you put it, "...this tired front end...", with your TTB, especially since it sounds like you've "done your homework," and all your maintenance/repairs, faithfully? And how many miles are on the truck, and how many, since you've rebushed, etc...?

BigSix1

bashby 08-16-2014 01:07 PM

Do not bend is a notice for the alignment tech back when they started using caster/ camber bushings in tib's. Before that you bent I beams to adjust camber and the radius arm to adjust caster. The vans had the bend to set I beams a several years longer then f series.

Nothing Special 08-16-2014 02:18 PM

BigSix1, the leaf sprung F-250 TTB is NOTHING like a '72 F-100 2WD (twin I beam, coil springs) or an F-150 coil spring TTB. Both of those are good suspensions. in fact, they are the basis for a lot of desert racers.

The problem with the F-250 TTB is the combination of TTB with leaf springs. As the suspension cycles the beam makes the end of the axle swing in one arc (around the beam pivot, moving the axle end right to left as it moves up and down) and the spring makes it swing in another (around the fixed end of the spring, moving the axle end front to back as it moves up and down). The beam won't let the axle end move front to back and the spring greatly resists right to left, so the suspension binds up.

It is a terrible design, but overall it does work. Some people even like it. Rebuilding and keeping an F-250 TTB isn't the worst thing in the world to do. But most people do think the F-350 solid axle setup, which doesn't bind up, rides better even though it's a 1 ton compared to the TTB 3/4 ton.

There are still reasons to swap a solid axle under a coil sprung TTB F-150, but ride quality is not one of them. But the F-250 TTB is a whole 'nother animal.

BruteFord 08-16-2014 03:18 PM

The OP hasn't said much but it looks like his truck is a regular cab, this means there is a good chance it's a D44TTB, IDK if the F250 D44TTBs were leaf or coil.

Nothing Special 08-16-2014 03:38 PM

All F-250 TTBs were leaf.

I had the D44 version in an '85 F-250 RCLB and now the D50 version in a '97 F-250 CCSB. The ride in the '85 was absolutely terrible, the '97 isn't too bad. Twelve years of refinement might have helped, and the added weight of a crewcab and the 460 certainly soften the ride on my '97.

GNR22 08-16-2014 04:28 PM

My regular cab long box 89 F250 had a D50 TTB in it when I bought it, leaf sprung of course. The ride was awful. With F350 suspension and a D44HD straight axle from a 79 F250 the ride is much improved.

The suspension actually moves when you hit bumps and the truck doesn't lurch like it did when you hit pot holes with the D50 TTB.

As far as I'm concerned, OP should throw that TTB axle in the scrap pile and get his choice of solid axle, D60 is much more straight forward than the old D44HD that I put in.

stocker rocker 08-16-2014 05:14 PM

I have 87 f250 with ttb and a 95 f350 with a solid axle considering putting ttb in its place the ride is night and day ttb all the way for me


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