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-   -   6.0 Help! I'm Stumped (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1314922-6-0-help-im-stumped.html)

BigStyle 05-15-2014 02:47 PM

6.0 Help! I'm Stumped
 
Hello, I have a 2003 F350 6.0 automatic. It sat all winter long but started right up in the spring no problem. I used it to pull my 20' 7000lb trailer about 50 miles with no trouble (it was a little low on power at low revs) Then after the weekend I went to pull the trailer home and it acted funny. First thing was that it lost significant power, almost like no turbo power. I limped it home and plugged in Forscan. The vgt was cycling from 85 to 15 and back. So I pulled the turbo. Sure enough it was pretty stuck inside. I cleaned it all up and everything moved freely. I reinstalled the turbo and went for a 20 min test drive. (After it had learned the vgt). It went ok until almost back home when it developed a considerable misfire. Again I plugged in forscan and checked. Sure enough I had an out of balance on cylinder #3.

So I pulled the injector and freed up the stiction. (it was really stiff, perfect smooth now) since I had the oil rail off I thought I should pull cylinder 1 5 and 7 and check them. cylilnder 5 was sticky too but not as bad as 3 was. 1 and 5 were fine. I reinstalled all the injectors back to where they were. I then started the truck and it ran fine until it got warm. Once warm the miss was back. A scan showed cylinder 1 this time. I am 100% certain it was not mixed for cylinder 3. (it has the letter J on it and cylinder 3 had an A while 5 and 7 had B)

I am stumped now. I checked number 1 again and refired the truck. It ran great for 5 minutes then the mis was back. Once its warm the truck will not restart either as if the hpop is leaking. Reading icp it doesn't pull the psi expected when hot. The truck has a new hpop with less than 3000miles on it. also new icp and ipr at the same time.

I assume at this point that I must have damaged an o-ring on top of one of the injectors when reinstalling the oil rail. Does this make sense to you? With cylinder 1 out of balance is it likely that #1 o-ring is damaged? Anyone know the part number for those O-rings. (I think they are actually D rings)

Before you say its a leak at the fitting remember its an 03 which doesn't have the same hpop as the 04 and up.

The truck hasn't got the power to pull a sick ***** of the toilet either. I cant even road test it right now.

Someone help, please! (oh and It has fresh rotella t in it)

Thanks

texastech_diesel 05-15-2014 02:54 PM

Just to rule out the easy stuff, did you check all the electrical? Batteries, alternator, FICM? Moving contribution issues in one bank can be a connector or power supply issue, and you said it sat all winter.

When you ICP doesn't pull psi expected, do you mean the ICPV and ICP desired PIDs are different, or it's not showing what you expect? What are ICPV, ICP, and IPR% doing while it's running rough? What all work was done 3k ago, just an HPOP or something more in-depth that could take out the IPR valve with debris?

Re-ring kits:
Motorcraft 6.0L Injector O-rings 03-07 - Riffraff Diesel Performance
Alliant 6.0L Injector O-rings 03-07 - Riffraff Diesel Performance

Motorcraft PN: 3C3Z 9229 AA

There's also a new spate of failures involving the oil rail cup o-rings, did any of the o-rings on the top of the injectors appear eroded?

BigStyle 05-15-2014 03:00 PM

thanks for the fast reply. at the time I changed the hpop I put in a new screen, icp and ipr. I didn't just do the hpop. I also upgraded the oil tube to the turbo since I was there.

When cold I see the icp and ipr functions as expected. They also match the expected levels as per froscan scanning. When it is stumbling the icp and ipr as expected. If I turn it off when hot and go to crank it the ipr doesn't come close to the expected level.

FICM voltage is a steady 48.5v key on engine off and while running.

the stumble or mis seems to go away in neutral over 1000rpm and the engine revs normal. But in anything other than park or neutral it wont even rev.

BigStyle 05-15-2014 03:07 PM

and none of the O-rings appeared eroded. I haven't yet pulled the oil rail again to check, waiting for it to cool down again.

Batteries and new as is the alternator. I had an issue last fall with overcharging so I bought new batteries and replaced the alternator.

I should maybe add it had a surging issue last year before it was parked for the winter. It also would give a strange pffft pffft pfft noise under load. (like pulling a trailer up a hill but lacked no power).

texastech_diesel 05-15-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStyle (Post 14349733)
If I turn it off when hot and go to crank it the ipr doesn't come close to the expected level.

You mean IPR% stays low while cranking when the engine is hot, compared to when you crank it cold?

Just so we're all on the same page, I'd expect to see something like 625spi for ICP, and 24% for IPR when it's idling. What specific data points are you seeing?

BigStyle 05-15-2014 03:31 PM

Key On Engine OFF - IPR= 14.84%, ICP 47Kpa

Idle - IPR = 28%, ICP 5300Kpa, Desired 5300Kpa

MGP 0.0psi at idle in neutral reving at 2500rpm 0.5psi

It had cooled down enough to start.

Codes are: P0263 imbalance cylinder #1 and B1352

BigStyle 05-15-2014 04:00 PM

I looked up pictures of the eroded o-ring you are talking about. After dinner I will go pull the rail and look closely. It should have cooled enough by then to work on it.

BigStyle 05-15-2014 05:22 PM

I needed to move the truck so I started it up with the scanner plugged in. The truck now has P0163 and P0169 imbalance cylinder 1 and cylinder 3. ARGH! I think to start I will remove the oil rail and replace all the orings on the rail and the O-rings from the rail to the injectors. Any other suggestions to add? Anyone? It really runs awful.

Tom 05-15-2014 07:13 PM

Hi BigStyle,

I'm going to move this one on down to the 6.0L forum. The folks down there should be able to help you out. :)

78fordman 05-15-2014 09:04 PM

Might have a copper washer on backwards or its not torqued correctly.

Sent from my leash using IB AutoGroup

BigStyle 05-15-2014 09:12 PM

I have pulled 1 and 3 again, to inspect the orings. Everything looks good and they pass the buzz test. I will torque them in tomorrow and double check my ficm voltage running when the miss is there and post the results. I'm not a diesel mechanic by any means but I know my way around a motor and build motorcycle race motors. I am going to swap 1 and 5 around and see if my problem follows suit with the injector. I guess its the best way to test for bad injector.

Bullitt390 05-15-2014 09:22 PM

Need new copper crush washers and o-rings each time an injector is removed and re-installed.

Josh

BigStyle 05-15-2014 09:31 PM

I can understand that but would I not see some blowby up the injector? Also I have removed the #5 and #7 injectors with no code or further problem.

I have O-ring kits on order with new washers and will replace them but I would think it would be able to trouble shoot without.

Also I have done key on engine off injector test and all pass. If that helps with troubleshooting. When I install them tomorrow I will check FICM voltage running. I think when I was last looking at the ficm voltage it wasn't running rough. Is it possible it goes bad when hot only? I have had crank sensors do that. (on this truck last fall and many motorcycles)

78fordman 05-15-2014 09:34 PM

The koeo injector test will only test the electrical circuit through the wiring and the spool coils. It will not show any signs of mechanical injector or seal failure.

BigStyle 05-15-2014 09:39 PM

No, of course not...so changing the injector to another cylinder and seeing if it follows will help to narrow down the possibilities.

Would a ficm going bad cause the imbalance to jump around cylinders? At one point yesterday it was running great then imbalance on cylinder 8. When I next started it imbalance was on #1. Its now consistently on cylinder #1 and cylinder #3.


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