International doesn't agree with Ford diagnostic, need opinions!
 

So a quick recap:

All winter I've been having cold start issues. I've changed everything you can imagine (Check past threads listed below for details) but nothing helped (not even Rev-X). So I finally took it to the Dealership. They call me back a couple hours ago and said that all 8 injectors were bad and were dropping off, my fuel pressure was reading at 36psi, my water in fuel light was illuminated (Never has before!), and they had to do a manual compression test to see if compression was good. All totaled to $4,361.46. Injectors, I can do myself at a cost of $261.64 each from Ford. So I called International to see if they had them cheaper and when I told them what Ford said, the tech said he had never seen all 8 injectors go bad and that I should not let them change them until other things were ruled out (e.i. Fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, and something else (I can't remember the name). He also said that they can't work on Fords. I ok'd the dealership to do the compression test on the engine and nothing else. Anyone have any feedback on what I should do? I've called and left a message with the guys at powerstrokehelp in Georgia. I live in Huntsville, Al, does anyone know a trustworthy 6.0 mech here that can diagnose this? I just don't know what to do!


Here are the other threads I've created on the subject:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ease-help.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ter-rev-x.html

I can tell you that 36 psi fuel pressure is absolutely no good for your injectors.

Get the truck home, add the blue spring regulator and recheck fuel pressure.

Josh

Could it just be the fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator?

I am, after doing some reading and what the tech at International said I'm not letting the dealership do a compression test. I've done the bubble test and heard it crank without starting and my compression sounds fine so I'll save my 500 dollars on that. The Tech at international said he would take a look for me but he can't use the diagnostic equipment that International uses because Ford's computer reads differently.

I would certainly do as others mentioned and get FUEL Pressure up See how it runs then

If you had low fuel press for a long time then you might need 8 inject But Bring the System to PAR before making any Decision on inject


I would Almost test the Fuel Pressure myself at this Point

Is there a tool I can get to do that or a parts list to make one?

You can go with a Standalone gauge or Manual gauge

Manual gauge needs a Kit for WOT compensator

Sean would be the Go to guy on the Tool

BLUE FUEL PRESSURE SPRING INSTALL

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tructions.html

please do not bring it to that powerstroke help idiot

theres my pic in that thread Lower left side it the Spot to screw in the FP Tester or Sender

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/p...ictureid=75606

Just curious, but why, he seems to know a lot. But looks can be deceiving I guess.

Thank you, I'm looking them up now.

We have seen a couple of his truck in person, not impressed at all !!!

There is a fairly good tester at Harbor Freight that will work for a basic test in a pinch and includes the correct adaptor fitting for the regulator housing.

Called an oil pressure tester kit, works just fine for diesel fuel...

Engine Oil Pressure Test Kit

Specs call for 40+ psi at all times, better to see 45+ psi even during WOT.

Blue Spring kit should push PSI well over 55+

Josh

Thank you, I'll be picking that up tomorrow after I pick her up from the dealer.

I would get it out of there too


Saw your Video

They were starting to troubleshoot your truck in that Thread

You Need a Gauge Still?????Or you have one??

Autozone has SGII

I haven't been able to get one yet. I'm still using the bully dog and I've been getting 0275 and 0278 codes while driving even when it warms up. Sometimes one at a time and others they are both at the same time. and still a noticeable miss. Rev-X and oil change actually made it worse! Now it will shut off when cold!

Fuel pressure was 38 psi I double checked what they want to do the truck: 8 injectors, Fuel pressure regulator (blue spring mod), Filters (even though they were changed 2 weeks ago, and clean my fuel pump assembly. I'm headed to get my truck, I'll probably do it all myself and pay myself $106.74 an hour LOL.

I too would suggest starting with the blue fuel pressure spring and then looking at the fuel pump.

When the one in the 7.3 croaked, I had plenty of warning, I just wasn't paying attention to the obvious signs.

With the 6.0, it took more pedal to get the truck moving and the throttle response was ridiculously inconsistent.

As soon as the fuel pump was replaced on both, I had a brand new truck again.

It's been like this through winter, what are the chance my injectors are shot?

I'm no Ford tech, but if the fuel pressure ran too low for long enough it would tear the injectors up.

The Ford subject matter expert (apparently a legit senior engineering title at Ford) told me 50 PSI minimum at full power. The tester to simulate full power is a manual pressure tester with the gauge on a tee fitting, after the gauge is a ball valve with a .047" orifice to meter the fuel, and hose to send the fuel back into the fuel tank. You idle the engine, open the ball valve so that fuel gets bypassed back to the tank and read the pressure. 36 psi at idle will absolutely kill all 8 injectors or make them read bad. Get the pressure up to 60 psi at idle with the kit and start from there.

Brian

So here's an update. Went to pick it up and it won't even start now (would when I dropped it off but won't now) and killed the batteries. Waiting on them to charge now. But the tech said the all injectors were dropping and fuel pressure was slow at 38 psi, the fuel pump needed to be cleaned and a couple of the injectors are sticking open causing compression to get into the fuel (I've done the bubble test and saw no bubbles). All totalling to 9 hours of labor and a $3,791.67 bill and replacing all injectors. I've seen a couple of vid on YouTube about taking out and cleaning the injector spool valves and replacing all the o-rings. Should I replace them all or clean the ones I have?

Last thing you want is to ruin NEW injectors because of low FP.. :-X19

ONLY after you have adequate FUEL pressure (FP) you can diagnose the injector health.

Do the upgraded blue spring first, see what FP you get.
IF that restores your FP - great, if not, fuel pump is next.. etc.

Replace the regulator spring and proceed from there. No need to jump in with both feet if it isn't needed.

Josh

I assume this is an 03 truck?
If so start with looking at icp based issues. Bad sensors and bad high pressure pumps with low volume output will make the ids think you have bad injectors. Mix that with low fuel pressure its easy to think its a simple injector concern.
I have seen a few truck with 8 bad injectors before but its not common.

I've changed the ICP already, HPOP went out last summer and was replaced.

Then do the blue spring, recheck and then we can help give you direction. But you need to do the spring first.

Jc , and get your self a Gauge ,I know it wont see fuel pressure that would be separate Idem , but it will look at the other things to help you resolve :-X22, Take a look at Riff raff diesel product for the Blue spring.

Getting it tomorrow and a starter, apparently I fried it today!

I'll check them out, thanks.

Here is some info about the injector system : aka HEUI.
Look at 2nd page of the PDF and you will see a shot of the injector.

EDIT : You may also want to look at page 30 & 31.

Here is a link to the page you can read it on
Hydraulically Actuated Electronic Unit Injector (HEUI) Systems - Injector

If you want use this link you can download it.. It's to big to upload to FTE.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...61190604,d.aWc



The way the injector works on the fuel side is there is an intensifier
piston. That piston if the fuel pressure is low will bottom out at the
of the stroke and hit. What the right pressure does is keep the chamber
full or part full so that the piston does not hit at the end of the compression
stroke. The piston is driven by high pressure oil from the HPOP and controlled
by the FICM. It is returned by spring and fuel pressure.

So if you running so the demand for fuel is high and the supply pressure
is low the intensifier piston will bottom at the end. That is hard on both
the spring and the piston.

Sean https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/p...ctureid=149188