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-   -   2010 5.4 valve train noise. (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1283764-2010-5-4-valve-train-noise.html)

offroadnt 12-08-2013 10:15 AM

2010 5.4 valve train noise.
 
I have a 2010 F250 with 154000km (96000 miles) but with about 8900hrs on the engine. We bought it last week, the people we bought it from discounted it three grand because of a loud clicking from the engine compartment and said they will help us out if it costs more then that to repair it. They seem like very good people and were completely honest about it although they didn't mention the engine noise in the ad.

Anyhow the noise seems to be coming from the right rear bank, it sounds like a bad lifter causing a loose push rod rocker noise on older engines. When the engine is cold it is allot quieter but there is a distinct rattling through the whole right bank (at least more pronounced then the left side). As the engine warms the noise becomes more of a loose lifter sound and seems very distinct on one valve in particular. The noise is there regardless of engine speed and load from what I can tell.
The oil was new when we bought the truck, I've put about a thousand kilometers on it now, day before yesterday I added some EOS (engine oil supplement as recommended by the local Ford parts guy :D) from the local GM dealer. I can't say it's made any difference but for eight bucks why not :o.
This was a work truck and I think it spent allot of time idling, it shouldn't have more then three to four thousand hours on the engine. I don't idle my engines at all, they only run if I'm moving or boosting. The truck I retired has 500,000km (310,000 miles) with only oil, spark plugs and filter changes (only two starters in that period also for those of you who think starting your engines all the time is hard on starters...).
I've been reading about camshaft phasers failing all over the internet but that seems to be on pre '08 engines and the noises go away at over 1200rpm and the noises are more from the front of the engine. I also called Livernois Motorsports about maybe purchasing phaser lockouts but they also say they don't think it's the phaser.
I see these engines have whats called hydraulic adjusters for the valve train, I'm thinking they work on the same principal as hydraulic lifters, anybody have experience with these failing?
I also read that using none Motorcraft filters can cause this because of poor drainback valves and filter medium coming loose and plugging ports, what do you experts think? Apparently the right rear of the engine is the last place to get oil so any port plugging or low oil pressures would cause damage there first...

Thanks for any advise and input.

nojoke327 12-08-2013 05:06 PM

I had a very similar noise and I thought it was a phaser but it turned out to be a bad catalytic converter. It could also be a exhaust manifold leak as my first set of leaking manifolds sounded very similar. Is there any way you could post a sound clip or video.

offroadnt 12-08-2013 07:21 PM

I'm sure it's inside the valve cover. I know exhaust leaks, this is definitely not that, exhaust leaks are more of a ticking noise, this is a very distinct tapping.

I've never posted a video before, I guess it's something I should try.

Thanks

offroadnt 01-01-2014 11:14 AM

Found the problem and fixed it :). #3 rear intake valve rocker arm roller seized to the pin and wore a flat spot about 3/16th of an inch down. I replaced the rocker and the hydraulic lash adjuster, reassembled the engine and it runs quiet :-drink.

I replaced the spark plugs while I was at it, well seven of eight so far... The other day I attempted to pull #1 plug and it wouldn't budge so I put some nutcracker in it and tried #2, it came loose so I checked it and reinstalled it with antisieze. I drove about 300km and then tried the plugs again yesterday. #1,2,5,6,7,8 came loose no problem but I was impatient and broke #4 off :-arrgh and #3 wouldn't budge. It took me 3 hours, about six different easy outs, lots of Nut Cracker and Deep Creep, various extensions, sockets, misc other tools, an air hammer and some profanity to get it out. I was so relieved. #3 hopefully will come out in a few days once the Nut Cracker has been able to soak in (hopefully :-down).

I'm surprised at how little the torques are for the hardware on these engines, 96 in/lb for the cam bearing caps, 120 in/lb for the spark plugs, wow :eek:, I thought the cam caps had been improperly torqued they were so loose. Obviously the person that installed the plugs hadn't looked up the torque...

Hopefully this helps someone out there and thank you for your input Nojoke327, I do have codes P0420 and P0430 come up occasionally, It seems to be a random thing so far. Freeze frame data seems to show it setting the codes when the truck is coasting and it appears to set both codes at the same time. After replacing the plugs yesterday the truck started perfectly, usually it seems to stumble when it's cold. I'm going to monitor it and maybe ask about it in later on.

Thanks again.

TrukProblemz 02-09-2014 11:16 PM

hey bud just a quick question, when the engine was cold and first started did it make the noise, or was it after the engine warmed up? and it made the noise at any rpm right? think i may be having same problem as you!, i can also hear it in the cab with windows up.

offroadnt 02-12-2014 10:19 AM

Yep the noise is always there, when you start it at -20 it's faint until it warms a bit and it is very distinct in the cab too. It was very consistent, didn't matter the load or speed. Mine was quite loud, I'm surprised it didn't seem to damage the cam, the cam wasn't even off color.

I still don't have number three spark plug replaced :-arrgh, that sucker is tighter than hell, it won't budge, tried it again the other day with the engine warm, then cold, then hot. I'm thinking of using one size smaller socket, lowering it over the porcelain then smacking it a few times with a hammer, then trying it. That's basically how I got the other one loose but I used an air hammer because I couldn't get in there. I think the person that installed the last set tightened them up too much. It requires only thirteen ft/lb.
I did another '07 5.4l the other day broke off four in that engine too, they rust in there, it has only a 125,000km on it. I installed one piece Champions in it but for some reason the sucker misss on #8 and #2 when cold now, it seems to run fine warm, I guess I'll pull them and double check the gap. I love these engines but this is a real PITA.

redford 02-13-2014 07:47 AM

When it is way cold. I let the engine idle down before I take off. When it it very cold (like -20F) that might take 5 minutes.

offroadnt 02-15-2014 10:36 AM

Cooling your engine isn't an issue, if your gauge is moving while it's idling you might need a thermostat. I let my engine idle thirty seconds to get everything circulating before I drive off then take it easy for the first few miles until it's warm. I might change the thermostat out soon, it seems to take longer then I expect to warm up (about 6-7 minutes while driving). Most of the other pickups seem to be warm within three minutes.

orbust 02-21-2014 07:13 PM

be interested to see the results of a compression and leak down test.

offroadnt 02-22-2014 11:37 AM

Compression and leak down tests won't be affected by the cam follower but might indicate a bad valve for sure.

orbust 02-22-2014 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offroadnt (Post 14095475)
Compression and leak down tests won't be affected by the cam follower but might indicate a bad valve for sure.

I was thinking maybe a burned exhaust valve

offroadnt 02-23-2014 10:06 AM

I don't think a burnt exhaust valve would cause a tick because if anything it would reduce valve lash. If the exhaust system is good you wouldn't detect anything but a miss at the engine but would get a definite puffing through the tail pipe.


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