Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php)
-   Excursion - King of SUVs (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum29/)
-   -   Issues with Red Head boxes or not? A discussion (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1266244-issues-with-red-head-boxes-or-not-a-discussion.html)

sammie0126 09-07-2013 01:49 PM

Issues with Red Head boxes or not? A discussion
 
Decided to start a new thread on the issues some of us may be having with our Red Head gear boxes. There are several threads with mention of what may or may not be related problems so I thought a new thread was in order.

I am not convinced the problems we are having are all to the RH Boxes, but I would like to vet it out a bit before I speak to them again, as I am more convinced mine is play inside the box itself.

I took a new video this morning, using some zip ties, the camera and a fairly well placed location attached to a radiator hose i was able to video the input shaft and the pitman arm on one screen. This is taken with the truck on jack stands, key on and wheels unlocked. I decided to turn the shaft by hand rather than use the wheel to eliminate any possible play coming from the steering column itself.

I can turn the input shaft almost a quarter of a turn before the pitman arm moves, now I know there are the balls and worm gear that has to turn before the motion is transferred but this seems excessive to me. You can see the pitman bottom of the screen, watch as my hand turns the input for movement. There are a couple of shots where you see me moving the shaft back and forth quickly and the pitman does not move at all, then it catches and you can see me have to put a lot more force into from there as the steering starts to move.

Thoughts?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5PiZfrfDGsk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rockcrawler_101 09-07-2013 02:39 PM

That doesn't seem to far off of where it should be. Are you getting play in your steering while drivin? Have someone turn the wheel while you look for play in the rest of the steering and pan hard bar.

wpnaes 09-07-2013 02:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Christina, mine will turn 1/10th a revolution before the pitman arm moves. So far steering pump #2 is hanging in there. I'm going to try removing 1 of the 2 steering dampers I have on to see if that makes a diff. FYI, replaced within the past 15K miles: ball joints, all 4 inner/outer tie rods, both unit bearings, but the tires are old. As I recall RH won't warranty a box that has adjusted by the customer - note there's a dab of paint on the adjustment nut.

sammie0126 09-07-2013 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101 (Post 13510733)
That doesn't seem to far off of where it should be. Are you getting play in your steering while drivin? Have someone turn the wheel while you look for play in the rest of the steering and pan hard bar.

I am - lot of play and I can't find it, yanked pulled and pried on everything I can and nothing. Brother going to be here in a few and am going to video the entire steering while he turns the wheel. Something is not right, thought it was the pump which was squealing; but replaced that and it's still driving like a drunken sailor. Everything in the steering is new in the last year, this started when the pump started going, or most likely it was there and just showed itself when the pump let go. Will follow up when I get a look at it all in motion again. FRUSTRATING!

Stewart_H 09-07-2013 02:46 PM

You beat me to it, Christina. I was going to cut all the posts from the other thread and merge them into their own stand-alone thread for troubleshooting/discussion purposes.

Stewart

sammie0126 09-07-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpnaes (Post 13510737)
Hi Christina, mine will turn 1/10th a revolution before the pitman arm moves. So far steering pump #2 is hanging in there. I'm going to try removing 1 of the 2 steering dampers I have on to see if that makes a diff. FYI, replaced within the past 15K miles: ball joints, all 4 inner/outer tie rods, both unit bearings, but the tires are old. As I recall RH won't warranty a box that has adjusted by the customer - note there's a dab of paint on the adjustment nut.

Thanks for the info, haven't touched mine. Just makes no sense to try to adjust, it's supposed to be a freshly rebuild box with better internals than the OEM box, if it needs adjusted then it wasn't done properly to start with.

rockcrawler_101 09-07-2013 03:43 PM

When did you have it aligned last? When you got all new steering? I would also check to see if they left any of the clamps lose on you steering. Being toed out can make it drive like its lose. Also check ball joints

sammie0126 09-07-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101 (Post 13510832)
When did you have it aligned last? When you got all new steering? I would also check to see if they left any of the clamps lose on you steering. Being toed out can make it drive like its lose. Also check ball joints

In the last year in order
New axle housing
Springs/U Bolts
Ball Joints
Drag Link
Tie rods
Hubs
Rotors
(aligned)

Wheels
Tires
Gear box
Pitman Arm
(aligned)

Axle U joints
Seals
Warn Lockers serviced
Ajustable Track Bar
Stabilizer
(aligned)

PS Pump

Took another video with it running and someone turning the wheel this time, input shaft moving - pitman arm is not.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7xta5yKqXaE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hasteranger 09-07-2013 09:41 PM

Mine was tighter when new, I've had it a couple years now and its definitely loosened up. I'm not convinced its worth the extra dollars over a stock replacement.

sammie0126 09-07-2013 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasteranger (Post 13511705)
Mine was tighter when new, I've had it a couple years now and its definitely loosened up. I'm not convinced its worth the extra dollars over a stock replacement.

I have been talking with RH today and sent them one of my videos. I will expect the warranty to be honored. There are always production issues, things go wrong, as long as they stand by their warranty and my new box is tight then I have no issue with them. Will keep everyone posted on the discussions.

EXv10 09-07-2013 10:44 PM

I watched it 3 times and half of that movement by hand moves the pitman arm, When you did the 1/8" turn jiggling part the arm actually moved a tiny bit at the end of each jiggle. You eyes can only focus on one thing at a time but look closely at that 1/8" turn jiggling/arm moving part. I would get another set of eyes to see where the pitman arm and downstream is going.

sammie0126 09-07-2013 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXv10 (Post 13511910)
I watched it 3 times and half of that movement by hand moves the pitman arm, When you did the 1/8" turn jiggling part the arm actually moved a tiny bit at the end of each jiggle. You eyes can only focus on one thing at a time but look closely at that 1/8" turn jiggling/arm moving part. I would get another set of eyes to see where the pitman arm and downstream is going.

Ya in the 2nd video with the truck running you can see the output and the arm start to move, as the wheel turns the shaft in 1/8" turn increments. But shouldn't have to go 1/8 of a turn to get the pitman to move. Nothing is loose, I think there is play in the box, worm or balls or something. What goes in is not coming out.....

EXv10 09-07-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammie0126 (Post 13510949)
In the last year in order
New axle housing
Springs/U Bolts
Ball Joints
Drag Link
Tie rods
Hubs
Rotors
(aligned)

Wheels
Tires
Gear box
Pitman Arm
(aligned)

Axle U joints
Seals
Warn Lockers serviced
Ajustable Track Bar
Stabilizer
(aligned)

PS Pump

Took another video with it running and someone turning the wheel this time, input shaft moving - pitman arm is not.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7xta5yKqXaE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I watched this video also and as in the first one the input only turns about 1/8 turn before moving the pitman and that is about how mine is. I think half of the problem is downstream and with an adjustment on top plus fixing your downstream problem it will be fine. Just because is is a new RH box doesn't mean it's not immune to adjusting. Everything loosens up. (I asked before if you adjusted it).

sammie0126 09-07-2013 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXv10 (Post 13511941)
I watched this video also and as in the first one the input only turns about 1/8 turn before moving the pitman and that is about how mine is. I think half of the problem is downstream and with an adjustment on top plus fixing your downstream problem it will be fine. Just because is is a new RH box doesn't mean it's not immune to adjusting. Everything loosens up. (I asked before if you adjusted it).

Fix what downstream?

EXv10 09-07-2013 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammie0126 (Post 13511940)
Ya in the 2nd video with the truck running you can see the output and the arm start to move, as the wheel turns the shaft in 1/8" turn increments. But shouldn't have to go 1/8 of a turn to get the pitman to move. Nothing is loose, I think there is play in the box, worm or balls or something. What goes in is not coming out.....

It's not a solid connection, mine moves at least that much and it tracks like a freight train. It takes a little to get everything to move like in the rear end. Remember how much play there was in the yoke when you turn it by hand?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.